"Do not be surprised when God leads you down a path that makes no earthly sense"
Chip, one of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to guide believers. That is the reason we pray to God that he guide our steps and deliver us from evil. We are being guided by God’s spirit daily. Whenever we feel the desire to pray, to read the Bible, to congregate with other believers, etc. it is because the Spirit of God is leading us to do those things. It definitely is not the flesh or the devil leading us to do these things.
Galatians 5:16-17
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
As we see from this passage, there are desire of the flesh, and desires of the Spirit. Our actions are affected by which desires we choose to obey.
Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
1 Corinthians 14:15
What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
How did the Apostles write the books of the New Testament? Was it not through the leading of the holy spirit? Were they hearing words as they were writing the Gospels? No. The Spirit of God helped them to remember the words of Jesus. Did God dictate word for word to the Apostle Paul what he needed to write in his letter? No. He guided his pen. He used the talents and knowledge and personality of Paul, and guided him with his Holy Spirit.
[christian cerna]The last two verses don’t relate to the Spirit giving me directions. In Romans, the Spirit is communicating with the Father on our behalf. In 1 Corinthians, Paul writes about his spirit, not the Holy Spirit. That leaves Galatians, to which I already alluded. We agree it indicates a leading by the Holy Spirit. However, the passage doesn’t say how the Spirit will lead us, only that He will lead us. That is exactly what I said previously. Now, to the rest, why don’t you indicate the specific verses you are referencing. Then we can discuss them in detail instead of trying to deal with generalities. When you do, you will find that many of the ideas regarding our interaction with the Holy Spirit are being read into the passages instead of read out from the passages - i.e. preconceived understandings are being credited to the passages even though they are really only some of the possible understandings of the passage and contradict other, clearer passages. I would refer you back to the previously mentioned book Decision Making and the Will of God by Friesen, just stick with the earlier 1980 printing rather than the newer, revised edition. I was raised with the “perfect will of God” where everyone has to find God’s ideal for them until the first pastor I worked under in vocational ministry gave me a copy of this book some 15+ years ago, and it crystalized so much of the scripture on this subject for me. I think you would find it a profitable investment even if you don’t come away convinced by it.Chip, one of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to guide believers. That is the reason we pray to God that he guide our steps and deliver us from evil. We are being guided by God’s spirit daily. Whenever we feel the desire to pray, to read the Bible, to congregate with other believers, etc. it is because the Spirit of God is leading us to do those things. It definitely is not the flesh or the devil leading us to do these things.
Galatians 5:16-17
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.As we see from this passage, there are desire of the flesh, and desires of the Spirit. Our actions are affected by which desires we choose to obey.
Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.1 Corinthians 14:15
What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
[christian cerna]You are comparing apples to oranges. We are not apostles. Furthermore, God’s inspiration of scripture (a one-time event) is not the same thing as getting direction about the decisions I face in life (an on-going, every-person event). They are different transactions. It’s like comparing the way God brought Adam to life with the way he brought me to life. They are different events in different circumstances where they way God did one thing has no bearing on the way He did the other.How did the Apostles write the books of the New Testament? Was it not through the leading of the holy spirit? Were they hearing words as they were writing the Gospels? No. The Spirit of God helped them to remember the words of Jesus. Did God dictate word for word to the Apostle Paul what he needed to write in his letter? No. He guided his pen. He used the talents and knowledge and personality of Paul, and guided him with his Holy Spirit.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
Chip, if someone is looking for a job, should he pray to God about it, or leave it to chance?
If, as you say, God does not lead people except through the Scriptures, then I suppose it is not possible that God will lead me to those people that may help me get a job. Maybe I should not pray any more for God to help me find a godly wife, since every day I am merely coming and going as I please, and God will not guide me to the place where I will meet the woman he has prepared for me. When I get on my motorcycle, I will stop praying for God to protect me from danger, since he is not leading me or those around me.
Do you believe in destiny? Destiny is impossible unless God is guiding people’s every action, either directly or indirectly. How does he do it? What kind of influence does he use? That is difficult to explain, but we know God does it.
The Bible describes God as our Shepherd. A shepherd guides his flock, and he leads them to places of safety. A shepherd also allows his sheep to experience pain so that they may learn to be obedient.
Psalm 31:3
“For you are my rock and my fortress;
and for your name’s sake you lead me and guide me;”
So I’m doing my Bible reading this morning and come across the picking of Saul to be king. The people want it, God doesn’t since they are rejecting Him by wanting a king. They use lots to pick the tribe, clan, and then Saul. They can’t find Saul, the “the LORD said” he’s under the baggage. Why would God answer that question? Why speak to say where Saul is, but not to pick him? Why would God answer this question by speaking (presumably through Samuel the prophet), but not do similarly today? The question God answers seems rather trivial and not that important in the grand scheme of things. So, if God said where Saul was, why can’t He say to you, who have the Holy Spirit in you, where your lost keys are? Or who a good spouse is? Or what job to take, etc…
What does Sola Scriptura mean? What are the implications in this area?
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
Who is your question directed to, Greg?
Job 12:23
He makes nations great, and he destroys them;
he enlarges nations, and leads them away.
Psalm 23:2
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
Psalm 23:3
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for his name’s sake.
Psalm 25:9
He leads the humble in what is right,
and teaches the humble his way.
Psalm 68:6
God settles the solitary in a home;
he leads out the prisoners to prosperity,
but the rebellious dwell in a parched land.
I don’t know latin…do you? ;-)
Take Psalm 68:6 as an example. He leads the prisoners to prosperity. Does that mean that He personally pre-picked every decision that takes a person from prison to prosperity? Or, do people have choices to make that God doesn’t pre-pick, but weaves those choices people freely make, good or bad, to get to prosperity?
Well Mark, the Bible also says that God loved us before the foundation of the world, and he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ.
You couldn’t have been born unless your parents met. Your parents couldn’t have been born unless their parents first met. etc, etc. So God does choose who our spouse will be. How will we met the spouse that God has chosen, unless he leads us to her, at just the right time? If God is leading us when we meet our wife, then he is also leading us when we find a job, or go to school. For any change in the chain of events will alter the future.
This goes out to a lot of people, but you are saying “predestined us for adoption” means God decided I would have Cheerios for breakfast this morning…I couldn’t have had Golden Grahams if I wanted to. God, before the world was made, decided I would have Cheerios.
CC- general question, but to those like you and MS who appear to be arguing for relying on subjective experience.
BTW- I am not arguing that God can’t use circumstances to help you with lost car keys or what have you. I am saying that we should be careful to attribute things like intuition to a direct revelatory act of God, especially in the immediate sense. God might help you to remember, but is that any more an “act of God” than His enabling your legs to get you from your bedroom to the kitchen this morning?
He does give us choices, and He can work through (or in spite of) our choices.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
Discussion