Mohler: The Central Tragedy of this Case Remains—Trayvon Martin Belongs to Us All

[Susan R]

[GregH]

[G. N. Barkman]

Is it really asking too much for white Christians to acknowledge this injustice, and sympathize with our black neighbors accordingly?

Apparently…

saying we should not acknowledge injustice and racial tensions, or sympathize with our black neighbors? If they did, I missed it.

The general tone and content of many in this thread have made their opinions on this very clear.

Susan has pretty much summed up the real reason why most of us do not like Mr. Mohler’s article. It does not sound like something that was written by an educated and precise mind. Rather, it sounds like any one of the many articles you will find written by Liberal leaning mainstream news organizations. Its tone is one of blaming the Trayvon tragedy on skin color. It presents Martin as an innocent little child who was killed while walking home from the candy store. Mohler uses emotionally packed(but empty) phrases like “he belongs to us all”. And some of you are using phrases like “we need to take ownership of this” and “the church should be doing more to stop this sort of thing”.

As I understand it, a child belongs to his parents. Yet I have yet to hear anyone address the role of Martin’s parents in all of this.

Why say that we need to take ownership of this incident, if we had nothing to do with it? As far as I know, none of us were there that night. Did our actions or inaction cause the death of Martin? No. Of course not. What ever happened to personal responsibility and free will? Does the Bible tell us that we need to own other people’s transgressions?

The Church could be doing more to stop social injustice and crime? Really, unless the Church has the power to change the current world order, to monitor and control people’s actions, and to hand out free money to everyone who asks, how is this possible? Most injustices in this country exist because of poverty and greed. Didn’t Jesus say that we would always have the poor among us?

We live in a world full of sin. We live in a world where most people are unbelievers, or as the Apostles would say, Gentiles. The Apostles never commanded us to try changing the actions of unbelievers or told us that we were responsible for them. Rather they commanded us to separate ourselves from them, to take no part in their unfruitful works of darkness.

[GregH]

The general tone and content of many in this thread have made their opinions on this very clear.

“General tone and content”, eh? What tone, and what content?

Sorry you feel that way, but I don’t think anyone gets to make such an accusation as ‘white Christians in this thread do not acknowledge the injustices faced by African Americans, or sympathize with our black neighbors’ without backing up with more than ‘general tone and content’, and no specifics.

It means that we all have an opportunity to change the climate through our actions and behavior- and he is making the point with his audience that they need to begin by realizing they must play a part in the solution. They have a responsibility to do so.

And we play a part in the solution by being accurate, fair, and on point. Not by misrepresenting the facts of the case. We have a responsibility to be of sound speech as well, and that responsibility weighs heavily on those who are in the ministry and have a circle of influence far beyond what many of us will ever have. I don’t envy Mr. Mohler that burden, and I pray that God constantly grants him a heapin’ helpin’ of wisdom considering the size of his audience.

If we are in obedience to God’s Word, we will be part of the solution. Sharing Christ, loving others as Christ loves us, being involved in our communities, volunteering at local charitable organizations and giving to further mission efforts- basically just being faithful to where God has placed us on this earth. I think we get caught up in the tide of emotion surrounding controversial and crisis situations and start thinking it’s harder to love our neighbor than it actually is. That we must do something extra, amazing, astounding, radical to prove that we really really love people.

I don’t believe that being responsible for or attempting to repair the injustices that have happened in our society is part of God’s plan for the church. Christ redeems individuals, not ethnic groups.

And some of you are using phrases like “we need to take ownership of this” and “the church should be doing more to stop this sort of thing”.

Susan,

I would see this statement as an example of “lack of sympathy.” There is much in the way of resistance and protest, and no evidence of consideration of concern that the attitude and demeanor with which I handle myself could be received as hostile, much less that I have any room to improve my own behavior and actions.

Taking responsibility doesn’t mean in this case saying “It’s all my fault.” I have said that in my entries here several times. Rather, I am saying there is opportunity to invest and be part of a solution. Many in this thread have vehemently contended for “the facts” without making any effort to acknowledge that there are efforts individuals in this thread could make to change the lives of at least a few in their localities, but at this point aren’t. It leaves, again, the impression that the need for change lies with those people :::spit::: , and I can’t be bothered to dirty my hands with any of this.

Isn’t the point of Christian’s being left on earth to be part of drawing unbelievers to Christ?

We can separate all we want - but to separate TOO much leaves us no way to draw others because we have no one to talk to but other “christians”.. (whether they be Christian sheep or christian goats)

We can get caught up in “helping” so much that we never get to the point of telling others about Jesus.

I get frustrated with the assumption that because I am white I do not “feel” for people of other colors who are having a rough time .. nor do I “get it”.

I get tired of hearing of “people groups” and how to deal with them..

SO - a number of years ago I came to the conclusion that all I can do is grow closer to the Lord, follow His leading in who and how I should present Him the individuals I meet and come in contact with ..

We can talk all we want about racisim, homosexuality .. whatever the problem de jour is .. but ultimately it’s about hearts changing by knowing Jesus.

I don’t believe that being responsible for or attempting to repair the injustices that have happened in our society is part of God’s plan for the church. Christ redeems individuals, not ethnic groups.

I am not arguing for a broad national strategy kind of approach.

I have a pastor acquaintance here locally who is a bivocational pastor. One second job is substituting in the local public school. One day, some of the students were giving him a hard time, even resorting to accusing him of “racism” when he addressed their unruly behavior. He was able to silence them by showing a picture of his family, which included children he and his wife had adopted whose skin was very much like that of his accusers.

I am asking for an examination of how you make friends, how you and your congregation “do” church, that might, however unintentionally, be limiting your ability to an audience with some for the gospel. There are things that you might have more room to bend on than you think. There are efforts that can be made to show that you believe the gospel is multi-ethnic.

This may not stop every accusation. But like my friend, it might disarm some of them. And it seems pretty consistent with the Christianity I read about in my Bible, too.

Here.

1. I’m going to play with my son.
2. I’m going to remember 1950.
3. I’m going to finally commit myself to a Quixotic quest to rid the world of “race” as a category of human identity.
4. I’m going to pray and preach.

Read the whole thing.

It’s possible that some churches ‘do’ church in a way that feels exclusive, but I have yet been to one that excluded folks based on race. I can’t imagine how that would look. Can someone explain to me how that happens, what it looks like?

Hair length, pants, suits, movies? Yes. Skin color? No. All of the churches that I have ever attended, even those south of the Mason Dixon line, which is the land from which I hail, have been fairly diverse. The only one that wasn’t was a very rural church, 45 minutes from civilization and indoor plumbing.

My Christian school was also diverse in ethnic population. I didn’t think in terms of having ‘black friends’ and ‘white friends’ and ‘Asian friends’, and there was no such term as ‘Hispanic’. My Spanish teacher was from Mexico, and it never occurred to me that she was anything other than a really fun and interesting teacher.

I would really REALLY love to NOT perpetuate the idea that I or anyone else is supposed to treat someone differently based on their skin color or nationality.

[Susan R]

[GregH]

The general tone and content of many in this thread have made their opinions on this very clear.

“General tone and content”, eh? What tone, and what content?

Sorry you feel that way, but I don’t think anyone gets to make such an accusation as ‘white Christians in this thread do not acknowledge the injustices faced by African Americans, or sympathize with our black neighbors’ without backing up with more than ‘general tone and content’, and no specifics.

There is no cut answer for every church to measure up to. I know one of the things that helps people here is to see how we go out of our way to include our Karen friends in the services, with songs (like the video I linked to earlier), Scripture readings… We have some in the usher rotation, who will lead in prayer in their native tongue…

I think probably the best and most direct way is to ask people- especially visitors who didn’t return. You don’t have to take everything as a directive, but it might help you evaluate where you could be more accommodating.

I would be curious though, Susan- how many of those diverse churches reflected that in service and leadership positions (like the teacher you mentioned)? Not saying they didn’t- but bus kids and “project people” are different than people entrusted with responsibility.

One thing we forget is that God himself created the different tribes, and peoples, and nations. He gave them different tongues because it was His will for them to spread out to the different corners of the Earth and to create sovereign nations for themselves.

Whether we want to admit it or not, each ethnicity or people or race or whatever you wish to call it, is different because God made them that way. If you wish to minimize those differences, or think that in this age we will ever see a color blind society, you are extremely naive. This whole idea that making a country “a melting pot” somehow strengthens it, is erroneous. It only takes a cursory scan of history to see that whenever you try to force different cultures(especially religions) into the same geographical area, it creates inequalities and strife. There will always be class struggle. There will always be racial tensions and blame for the problems we face, there will always be hostility between those who hold to different religions. Everyone is trying to hold on to the power and influence.

Let’s be real… The American Dream is an illusion. The only reason the government has allowed mass immigration into this country(whether black or hispanic or asian), is because companies want cheap labor. It wasn’t out of some deep desire to help the poor and needy of the world. I guarantee you that if the corporations wanted it, they could convince Obama and Washington to stop all immigration and to deport all illegal aliens. But it won’t happen. There is money to be made.

Am I trying to preach apathy? No. Am I saying we should stop trying to work at creating peaceful relationships between neighbors of different background? Of course not! I’m just saying that the best solutions come from within. Each ethnicity(race) has to take accountability for its own actions, and seek ways in which growth and improvement can happen organically.

Why do you think our country is so divided right now? Is it because our politicians are more corrupt now than they were say 30 years ago? Is it because there are more hate crimes being committed now? Is it the media? Is it modern Music ? The movies perhaps?

No. I think that the division was always there. The only difference is now things are getting a lot more difficult, and everything is looking more grim an hopeless. With jobs and money being scarce, and rumors of wars and terrorism constantly in our ears, everyone is looking for a scapegoat. People are blaming other races, other religions, other classes, etc. This is nothing new. When money was plentiful and the future looked secure, people were too wrapped up in their own lives to notice these things. They knew that there was poverty, and racial inequality, and injustice happening in America… but we watched it from a distance… as something that only happens to those poor people, and not to most Americans.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/19/19564969-transcript-pre…

You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago

[Greg Linscott]

I would be curious though, Susan- how many of those diverse churches reflected that in service and leadership positions (like the teacher you mentioned)? Not saying they didn’t- but bus kids and “project people” are different than people entrusted with responsibility.

Well, I wasn’t talking about visitors- I was talking about faithful members, SS teachers, basketball coach, visitation director, youth workers, visiting preachers… . and there was also a Deaf ministry. Maybe because I’m from a ‘university’ town? Marshall University (yes, that Marshall University- Go Herd!) was in my hometown. Might that have something to do with it? I don’t know. I just know that I grew up IFB, but I didn’t grow up in a church where ethnicity was a source of tension.

Our current church has several members who adopt outside their race. We are very close to Wright State University and Wright Patt Air Force Base, so I think our diversity is a proportionate reflection of our community. We are in the ‘burbs as well. Not close enough to downtown Dayton to draw anyone from there, FWIW.

Our local homeschool support group is also a reflection of Christian homeschoolers in our area, and I see diversity there too. Don’t know what the percentage is, because some join just for field trips, or testing, or the newsletter and online support group… so we don’t meet everyone in person. But I’ve not sensed any tension when we have Asian, Jewish, Hispanic or black families attending meetings or other functions, and for the last 3 years, the office of the president was a black and white couple.

I’m not discounting that there are places where racial tensions are high- obviously there are many wounds, and the violent protests are evidence that many people believe that they are hated (or at least suspected of nefarious activities) by most of white America because of their skin color. My objections come from the belief that I don’t think it is true that most of white America is racist, and to me it appears that some don’t want those wounds to heal, and others- no matter how many strides are made in a positive direction- don’t believe it’s enough, or maybe they don’t believe it’s sincere? But way too many of the conversations about race in America, are, in my opinion, manufactured controversy, just like the Martin/Zimmerman case.