"if the IFB movement is to have any future ... they are going to have to move toward an elder-rule, accountability-focused leadership style"

Jim Binney’s name was mentioned here. I’m not too familiar with him. I did notice that he was in First Baptist of Hammond’s church bulletin for 7/29 as teaching a class on marriage on Sunday nights.

I agree that Schaap isn’t as central to that wing of fundamentalism as his father in law was. But I do think that the hyper-fundamentalist wing is much larger than the sober-minded wing. And there is mixing and cross-pollination. But like everyone else, I speak from my vantage point and run the risk of over-generalizing.

I also agree that government is not necessarily the issue. But I liked the quote above from MacArthur about having a theology that lets you think you can get away with this. I can’t help but remembering that Hyles actually taught that God needed David too much, and he needed Samson too much to disqualify them over their sin. He lived with it, basically. I think he even taught more egregiously than that, saying you basically can earn enough brownie points with God to get a pass.

And just in case you think that thought died with Hyles on my post which this thread links to, I’ve actually had the following comment given (which is bewildering, appalling and concerning all at the same time):

What amazes me the most about most of these posts is how little of God’s Word is known by the posters. A New testament church is not run by deacons – deacons (Acts 6) under the direction of the pastor. You people sound like Moses’ older bother and younger sister. God leads the leader and if the leader fouls up, it is God that takes care of that and He doesn’t need half-witted self-professed theologians to take His place in taking care of His man – not deacons, elders, you people need to understand the New Testament Church; you Mr. Burton obviously do not. Abraham (and Sarah) fouled up – it was no small thing. The whole middle East problem came from that, but God took care of Abraham and on more than one occasion, It was true with Moses, David, and all the rest of the sinners in the Bible. God took care of it. I am not justifying what Schaap has done whatever it is. However, I find no biblical precedent for a mis-trained deacon board to take it upon themselves to touch God’s anointed. A spiritual (Gal 6) man may have counseled him to resign and take time to heal in the process of restoration. You people want to stone him to death! Call me, I’ll send all of you without sin a bag of rocks to throw at him! Bunch of stinkin’ hypocrites!

—R.S. Brewer

The government angle was more directed against CEO-style, “untouchable” status of the “Lord’s Anointed”. That mentality can set one up for a fall. But legalism, moralism, externalism, counting-noses-ism, no-repentancism — these things factor into this even more. Still, anyone and any man can fall, but it seems like IFB leaders of late, particularly those of this wing, have been more likely to fall in this manner. And that wing of fundamentalism, so idolizes men and leaders (way beyond what we see in evangelical circles it seems - with the statues and portraits and all) that a public fall like this will rattle people to the core - and I hope it can help them look to the Scripture to see if what they are focusing on so much is really where true religion is.

I think the impression that the hyper-Fundy segment is larger is simply because they are louder- it’s all “Hey look at us!” So there are some big churches with some ‘big’ names splashing themselves all over every Baptist publication with space to rent. But what about all the small churches that are serving the Lord and minding their own business? I can’t tell you how many churches I have visited and dropped names like “Jack Hyles” and the response was “Jack who?”

Looking at the above comment in Bro. Hayton’s post, I’ve noticed over the years that all the wacky rhetoric about pastoral authority is based on OT passages and examples. There are no NT examples of a pastor being spoken of as a ‘king’ or church gov’t as a monarchy. When you stop rightly dividing, you get all kinds of weirdness.

However, I find no biblical precedent for a mis-trained deacon board to take it upon themselves to touch God’s anointed.

There’s a great Inigo Montoya quote for this line - “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means”.