Does the Temple have to be on Mount Zion for the Abomination of Desolation to Occur?

The Abom. or Desolation has already occurred or this is not meant to be literal
40% (4 votes)
I believe the practice temple now under construction in Israel could qualify as an end time temple for Abomination of Desolation
30% (3 votes)
I believe that the Temple can only be built on Mt. Zion and will be built before the Abom. of Des.
20% (2 votes)
Sacrifices can be offered apart from a temple; that is all that is required prophetically
10% (1 vote)
Other (try to approximate to avoid this choice if possible)
0% (0 votes)
Total votes: 10
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There are 8 Comments

Ed Vasicek's picture

The practice/training Temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem is interesting. After watching this clip, a friend asked if there was any reason why this training temple could not actually be the temple the Antichrist enters to declare himself to be God (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPrvJTGePYs ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPrvJTGePYs

I know many SI participants believe that the present day existence of Israel is purely coincidental. From my perspective, it is an obvious apologetic and testimony to the truth of Scripture, because my understanding of Scripture would anticipate such an existence. Still, I know many disagree with this idea, so I have given the first choice to those with such a theological conviction.

But for those of us who believe that the Antichrist is a future individual who will one day enter the Temple of God, would this qualify?

As I was reading I Chronicles 21:18-27, I again thought to myself, "Although Ezekiel's Temple will be on Mount Zion, I do not recall reading anywhere that the Tribulation Temple will be located there."

The entire subject of where sacrifices were offered vs. the central sanctuary is complicated; for example, God commanded Gideon and Samuel to build altars and offer sacrifices at locations other than the central sanctuary. Evidence suggests that Jewish priests offered some sacrifices after the Temple was destroyed where they relocated. What are your thoughts?

"The Midrash Detective"

christian cerna's picture

How can the existence of present day Israel be a coincidence? Can anything be a coincidence when we know that God orders all things according to His will.

CPHurst's picture

Ed, I have some serious questions about this so please don't take them as derogatory or sarcastic.

Do present day Jews worship God? Do present day Jews worship Jesus?

If they claim to worship God as best they can since they don't have a temple but don't worship Jesus (who they reject as the Messiah) then how can a future rebuilding of the temple by a Jesus rejecting people (which John tells us is a rejection of the Father Himself) be considered to fulfill Biblical prophecy?

How can a temple in which God is not truly worshiped because Jesus is rejected considered to be desolated if true worship of God is not happening. Granted, Israel did properly worship God in the temple any times after completing it according to God's command. And its destruction in 70 A.D. was a desolation (I take the first half of the first option above as my view). However, if modern day Jews do not worship Jesus then would their rebuilding of the temple just be an exercise in vanity and for themselves and not God?

I hope you understand what I am asking here and if not please ask me to clarify anything. I am really trying to understand the potential significance of this for some people.

Ed Vasicek's picture

CPHurst wrote:
Ed, I have some serious questions about this so please don't take them as derogatory or sarcastic.

Do present day Jews worship God? Do present day Jews worship Jesus?

If they claim to worship God as best they can since they don't have a temple but don't worship Jesus (who they reject as the Messiah) then how can a future rebuilding of the temple by a Jesus rejecting people (which John tells us is a rejection of the Father Himself) be considered to fulfill Biblical prophecy?

How can a temple in which God is not truly worshiped because Jesus is rejected considered to be desolated if true worship of God is not happening. Granted, Israel did properly worship God in the temple any times after completing it according to God's command. And its destruction in 70 A.D. was a desolation (I take the first half of the first option above as my view). However, if modern day Jews do not worship Jesus then would their rebuilding of the temple just be an exercise in vanity and for themselves and not God?

I hope you understand what I am asking here and if not please ask me to clarify anything. I am really trying to understand the potential significance of this for some people.

Let me take a stab at things.

Quote:
Do present day Jews worship God? Do present day Jews worship Jesus?

Messianic Jews worship Jesus. Non-messianic Jews worship God (ascribe worth to him), as do many unbelievers. Whether that worship is acceptable to God is a different matter.

Quote:
If they claim to worship God as best they can since they don't have a temple but don't worship Jesus (who they reject as the Messiah) then how can a future rebuilding of the temple by a Jesus rejecting people (which John tells us is a rejection of the Father Himself) be considered to fulfill Biblical prophecy?

The Bible is filled with prophecies that have been or will be fulfilled by unbelievers. Even the crucifixion of Jesus is a case in point. If you want, I can point to prophecies about Cyrus or Antiochus Epiphanes.... lots and lots and lots of 'em. I do not know if God approves of the Jews building the temple, I just know it must be in place. I do not think God approves of the anti-christ or Antiochus Epiphanes or the Assyrians, etc., I just know he predicts things before they happen and his providence directs all.

Quote:
However, if modern day Jews do not worship Jesus then would their rebuilding of the temple just be an exercise in vanity and for themselves and not God?

True not only of the Jews but most of the people in the world who are religious but lost. However, it is not the individual Jews and their lack of regeneration that is the only issue -- there is also a sense where God is doing things in advance to prepare for the final generation of Jews that will believe when they "look upon him whom they have pierced" and mourn in repentance (Zechariah 12:8-10).

Quote:

I hope you understand what I am asking here and if not please ask me to clarify anything. I am really trying to understand the potential significance of this for some people.

Hopefully I have closed the understanding gap? I believe God orchestrates many things for his ultimate purposes; he does not work just among the regenerate.

"The Midrash Detective"

CPHurst's picture

Ed, thanks for the response(s).

I am totally on board with God using unbelievers to fulfill prophecy especially since those prophecies clearly included unbelievers as the acting agents in them. No contention there and total agreement.

What I am getting at is in relation to the Jews as God's people. If the temple is built would it have to last into the tribulation (I am post-trib myself) on your understanding? This is of course assuming Israel's enemies don't destroy it first which is very likely with the way things have been for Israel for a long time. Though I am post-trib I do believe Israel as a people will be restored but for a different purpose than a pre-trib person (though this is probably irrelevant to this discussion).

So, in your understanding, would Israel have to be restored as a nation and then accept Jesus as the Messiah in order for any worship in the temple to be legit and therefore any desolation of it to be considered fulfilling Biblical prophecy? Wouldn't true worship (worship that was to God in Christ) have to be necessary for the desolation to have any Biblical meaning and fulfillment?

Thanks for interacting with me.

Ed Vasicek's picture

CPHurst wrote:
Ed, thanks for the response(s).

I am totally on board with God using unbelievers to fulfill prophecy especially since those prophecies clearly included unbelievers as the acting agents in them. No contention there and total agreement.

What I am getting at is in relation to the Jews as God's people. If the temple is built would it have to last into the tribulation (I am post-trib myself) on your understanding? This is of course assuming Israel's enemies don't destroy it first which is very likely with the way things have been for Israel for a long time. Though I am post-trib I do believe Israel as a people will be restored but for a different purpose than a pre-trib person (though this is probably irrelevant to this discussion).

So, in your understanding, would Israel have to be restored as a nation and then accept Jesus as the Messiah in order for any worship in the temple to be legit and therefore any desolation of it to be considered fulfilling Biblical prophecy? Wouldn't true worship (worship that was to God in Christ) have to be necessary for the desolation to have any Biblical meaning and fulfillment?

Thanks for interacting with me.

There never was a time in all the history of Israel, IMO, in which most people were saved. Jesus participated in Temple worship to the hilt, and even the apostles did (see Acts 21:17-29). Yet we know that most other Temple worship participants were not saved by virtue of the fact that they did not respond to Jesus. Even Caiaphas the high priest prophesied, though unsaved (John 11:49-52), prophesied. True worship, however, has ALWAYS been an individual thing. So, no, the Temple is not about true worship, although it was for some It is important not to read the church -- which is under the New Covenant -- into Israel. The hallmark of the New Covenant is that ALL in it are regenerate, not true of the Old Covenant which was made with regenerate and unregenerate alike.

Jeremiah 31:34 reads:

Quote:
34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

I believe God will save the http://www.highlandpc.com/studies/nodanrev7.php ]144,000 Jews early in the Tribulation, and that the other surviving Jews will come to faith in Jesus, many at the very end of the Tribulation (Zechariah 13:8-9). Thus the Temple will be built in unbelief. In my understanding, the Antichrist will go into the Temple of God in the middle of the Tribulation (I Thessalonians 2:3-4) which I correlate with Revelation 13:5-8, Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 12:11. For him to go into the Temple and take his seat as God, the Temple must exist.

I believe that another temple will be build later, Ezekiel's temple in Ezekiel 40-43.

As far as the rapture goes, I am Pretrib, but not bothered by Post-trib. My viewpoint could accommodate a pre or mid-trib or pre-wrath rapture.

"The Midrash Detective"

CPHurst's picture

Ed, so one my read (post-trib) this temple building would be Ezekiel's temple during the millennium? I am admittedly still working through my understanding of that.

Ed Vasicek's picture

CPHurst wrote:
Ed, so one my read (post-trib) this temple building would be Ezekiel's temple during the millennium? I am admittedly still working through my understanding of that.

Ezekiel's Millennial Temple is built IN the Millennium, IMO.

Also please note I revised my post above. Smile

"The Midrash Detective"