A North Carolina Pastor calls for gays and lesbians to be fenced in so they can eventually die off

If you are going to say something really stupid …. make sure the video is off.

Besides the inflammatory hyperbole (I’m being generous in calling his statement hyperbole!):

The idea that you can eliminate a sin-trait by selectic genetics is completely flawed:

• It plays into the hand of those who say “they were born that way” (instead of a sinful choice!)
  
• There once was a time when “the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually … the earth was filled with violence” (Genesis 6:5,11)
  
• Only a righteous eight were saved
  
• And their descendants have managed (in reproduction and in sinful choices) to pretty well make a mess of things
  

More about the dangers of inflammatory hyperbole: there are simple people who just won’t get it and their take away will be hatred … and sadly in some cases violence.

Why Steve Davis is not in the torch and pitchfork crowd …

He caught his thumb on fire!

[Jim Peet] If you are going to say something really stupid …. make sure the video is off.

This does seem to be adhered to rigorously these days by too many.

[Charlie]

[jimcarwest] I know we are all upset by this foolish statement made from the pulpit, but cool off a little, guys. If this was said among preachers in a private setting, it would not cause half the stir that some of the brethren are making.

If this were said to me in a private conversation, I would inform the speaker that he had lost a substantial amount of my respect. If there were more than a few people in the conversation, I would probably submit an official complaint to the presbytery and seek an ecclesiastical censure.

So you are saying that Presbyterian ministers never say outrighteous things in private, and that you would report such a private exchange of opinions to the higher ups for the purpose of getting the minister censured? Sounds a little over the top…maybe even a little like Russia to me. Hey, my friend, this is America; we have freedom of speech. “Be not overrighteous…” Your responsibility in such a private situation would be to rebuke the brother, ask him to tone down his rhetoric, and seek his correction, not report him. And if you heard the video, you would need to rebuke the entire assembly who were agreeing with their pastor by their vocal responses. He was addressing a true situation, but in an offensive manner. It is incontrovertible that gays do not procreate, and in time they do tend to fade away, since homosexuality is not a gene. To acknowledge that is fact; to say it in the way he did is foolish.

I live about 30 miles from this church but had never heard of it until now. I know some people in the gay/lesbian community that are going there this Sunday to protest what this pastor said. Honestly, I feel like going with them and asking him to apologize for what he said!! I don’t agree with their lifestyle choice and I believe it is a sin, but we can (and should) speak the truth in love. How many people might have turned their back on any openness to Christ because of what this guy said? How many witnessing opportunities have been thwarted because they will not want to talk with a “Christian?” How much seed that has already been planted will be snatched away because of his “sermon?” I’m praying he would be humble enough to realize he made a bad mistake and apologize for it.

You feel like banning together with a group who have their identity based in an abominable sexual perversion against a brother in the Lord for an overreach by him? Hmmm…something seems a bit skewed here. He doesn’t owe them an apology in the first place, he wasn’t speaking to them. And who are those devoted to such perversion to instruct God’s children about his ways? The Pastor may be distasteful or lacking grace but it certainly should be of no temptation to us to join those who oppose God, often violently, in their attempt to pressure a Teacher to articulate his thoughts about moral matters to the satisfaction of their reprobate minds.

So you are saying that Presbyterian ministers never say outrighteous things in private …

You feel like banning together with a group … against a brother in the Lord for an overreach by him?

That last one reminds me of a customer who once told me that if one of my employees misbehaved at his facility he would be banded (hey, it’s better than bandied, right?) from the property.

Word quirks crack me up, so I had to work really hard to keep a straight face.

Thanks for the smile, gents.

I tried listening to the audio of this sermon from 5/13, but I could only find the audio from his sermon of 5/6. So I listened to that to get a feel for what Worley teaches. I was surprised to hear him say, at minute 27:53 of the recording: “Homosexuals and Lesbians- they’re welcome in this church. I do not like that sin. I hate it, but I love the sinner.” He said that after listing many other sins and then inviting those who had committed them to the church. I think the scrutiny he and this church is under right now will force them (and perhaps many others) to present their thoughts more effectively. I don’t think that those in the media, so angry at this man, have suffered nearly as much from him as he will from them. That should be lamented too.

[DavidO]

So you are saying that Presbyterian ministers never say outrighteous things in private …

You feel like banning together with a group … against a brother in the Lord for an overreach by him?

That last one reminds me of a customer who once told me that if one of my employees misbehaved at his facility he would be banded (hey, it’s better than bandied, right?) from the property.

Word quirks crack me up, so I had to work really hard to keep a straight face.

Thanks for the smile, gents.

I’d plead droid effect but then I would be lying. I wonder, is banning together possible?

Oh, I’m sure it is. They could, together, ban him!

[Alex Guggenheim] You feel like banning together with a group who have their identity based in an abominable sexual perversion against a brother in the Lord for an overreach by him? Hmmm…something seems a bit skewed here. He doesn’t owe them an apology in the first place, he wasn’t speaking to them. And who are those devoted to such perversion to instruct God’s children about his ways? The Pastor may be distasteful or lacking grace but it certainly should be of no temptation to us to join those who oppose God, often violently, in their attempt to pressure a Teacher to articulate his thoughts about moral matters to the satisfaction of their reprobate minds.

Would I band together with them? I guess that depends on what you mean by band. I’ll make a stand on the fact that what he said was completely uncalled for and completely unbiblical. Whoever else is standing on that side as well is ok with me. Once again, my prayer though is that he will humble himself and apologize for the inflammatory remarks.

I would venture to guess that any defender’s view would be different if he had said this about teenagers that were in a promiscuous relationship, or divorced people, or liars, or [put your favorite sin here]. I would also venture to guess that the woman at the well was glad Christ didn’t have the same attitude as this church and its pastor. Think about it, she had a reprobate mind so why try to reach her?! Maybe Christ and the disciples should have just thrown her in a deep hole and dropped her some food every once in a while. Eventually her kind would die out and they would have been better off. Right?

I take your point, David, and I do know that “outrighteous” is NOT a word. I meant to say outrageous, and I apologize for offending your grammatical tastes. Proper proof-reading on my part would have caught that. Thanks for holding us all to proper writing standards, and in the midst of a serious discussion, I’m glad you found some humor.

[Alex Guggenheim] You feel like banning together with a group who have their identity based in an abominable sexual perversion against a brother in the Lord for an overreach by him? Hmmm…something seems a bit skewed here. He doesn’t owe them an apology in the first place, he wasn’t speaking to them. And who are those devoted to such perversion to instruct God’s children about his ways? The Pastor may be distasteful or lacking grace but it certainly should be of no temptation to us to join those who oppose God, often violently, in their attempt to pressure a Teacher to articulate his thoughts about moral matters to the satisfaction of their reprobate minds.

If it seems a bit skewed, it’s because the pastor made it so. Sinful false teaching skews things. That’s what sin does. I’m happy to stand with any homosexual (made in the image of God) who isn’t getting justice, as when someone is advocating their murder. We should pick teams on the Word, principles, and situations, not on who we find the most lovable.

[Shaynus]
If it seems a bit skewed, it’s because the pastor made it so. Sinful false teaching skews things. That’s what sin does. I’m happy to stand with any homosexual (made in the image of God) who isn’t getting justice, as when someone is advocating their murder. We should pick teams on the Word, principles, and situations, not on who we find the most lovable.

Here I fixed this for you:

Matthew 18:15-17

“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more reprobates with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, band together with many of those who live sexually perverse lifestyles because, after all, it is the reprobates with whom you should coalesce in such matters; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector while you remain coalesced with the reprobates”

Not.

And now to the alleged advocating the “murder” of homosexuals:

Leviticus 18:22

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.”

I’ll leave it to those of you who wish to lecture God in heaven about where he went wrong at this point.

And exactly what “justice” did the good Pastor deny the reprobates?