Christopher Peterman, founder of Do Right BJU, expelled 9 days before his BJU graduation.
Forum category
My name is Christopher Peterman and I was asked to share my story on SI. Since my expulsion on April 24, 2012 my story has been all of the world so this is basically just a rehash of everything you have probably already read.
One of my goals in sharing my stories is that I hope it can help BJU see the problems there and the overwhelming need for the grace of God to permeate that place. There is no grace at BJU. There is no love.
Probably my favorite song is Only Grace by Matthew West. I would love for the meaning of these words to effect the very core of BJU.
Matthew West’s Only Grace
There is no guilt here
There is no shame
No pointing fingers
There is no blame
What happened yesterday has disappeared
The dirt has washed away
And now its clear
There’s only grace. There’s only love
There’s only mercy and believe me its enough
Your sins are gone
Without a trace
And there’s nothing left now
There’s only grace
Your starting over now
Under the sun
Your stepping forward now
A new life has begun
Your new life has begun
And there’s only grace
There’s only love
There’s only mercy and believe me its enough
Your sins are gone
Without a trace
and there’s nothing left now
There’s only grace
And if you should fall again
Get back up, get back up
Reach out and take my hand
And get back up, get back up
Get back up again
Ooh get back up again
There’s only grace
There’s only love
There’s only mercy and believe me its enough, its enough
Your sins are gone without a trace
and there’s nothing left now
There’s only…there’s only grace
There’s only mercy and believe me its enough, its enough
Your sins are gone without a trace
And there’s nothing left now
There’s only grace….
So get back up, get back up again
Get back up, get back up, get back up again
––––––––––––––––––––––––—
My story
I grew up in Bradenton, Florida where I attended Community Baptist Church and Community Christian School my entire life. CBC is an independent, fundamental, Baptist church within the Bob Jones University network. So from a very young age I knew that I was going to attend BJU in Greenville, South Carolina. That was what was expected of me and that was my dream.
I graduated from high school in 2006 and was immediately accepted to BJU. I attended BJU from 2006 to 2009 and then, I stayed out of school working full time from 2009 through the first semester of 2010 to save enough money to return to school.
During the time I sat out of school I began to interact with people outside of the independent fundamental Baptist church. I realized that there were good Christian people outside of the IFB and I realized that being a Christian wasn’t about following the law; it was about loving others and loving God.
I returned the second semester of 2010 to Bob Jones University with a radically changed view of Christ and the power of grace and love in a Christian’s life. I now realized that because God loves, I am suppose to love everyone. This was a radical shift from my fundamentalist upbringing and from the views of Bob Jones University. But I still returned to BJU expecting to finish my degree in a year and a half and to then be done with BJU.
Little did I know my plans would soon be changed forever.
Before I went back to BJU for second semester 2010 my friend, Beth Murschell, called me and begged me not to go back to school. Even though my personal views had already radically shifted I still supported BJU and I told Beth that I wasn’t going to transfer anywhere else. She told me that there was so much that I didn’t know that she was just finding out and she pleaded with me to transfer.
I refused. I packed my bags, loaded the car, and headed up to BJU, but I continued to remember Beth’s warnings in the back of my head.
My first semester back at BJU was normal. I went to classes, made new friends, and I got no demerits the entire semester. No problems whatsoever … until I read about Tina Anderson.
The beginning of the end began the first semester of 2011. I came across some articles online about a scandal that was happening in Concord, New Hampshire at Trinity Baptist Church. I began to research what was happening and I soon discovered that there were significant issues with the former pastor.
Reverend Chuck Phelps was the pastor at Trinity Baptist Church when Ernest Willis, a 35-year-old man and member of the church, raped Tina Anderson, a 15-year-old member of the same church. This story attracted so much national media attention that http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/scarred-childhood-13334532: ABC’s 20/20 did an investigation on the abuse .
From my research I learned that Chuck Phelps was still on the Board of Trustees at Bob Jones University. It really troubled me that this man was being allowed to continue as a board member in good standing. I felt I had to speak out.
At first I posted links, articles, and even the 20/20 investigation link on my personal Facebook page, but I quickly was reported to the Dean of Men’s office. I was called into his office and the Dean of Men told me point blank that I had to stop talking about the Chuck Phelps situation on my personal Facebook or I would be expelled.
I left his office and immediately created a www.facebook.com/DoRightBJU: Facebook page called Do Right BJU where I wrote anonymously about the Chuck Phelps situation and organized a peaceful student protest. I called on students, faculty, staff and alumni to wear red in support of abuse victims. I also called on BJU to remove Chuck Phelps from the Board of Trustees and to begin educating the BJU students on abuse and signs of abuse.
The protest was held on December 12, 2011 — a handful of BJU students along with a group of alumni wore red that day. In solidarity, many people changed their profile photos to red, creating a virtual sea of red on Facebook.
BJU announced that there would be no consequences for those students organizing or involved with the protest. Chuck Phelps resigned and a committee was formed to investigate allegations of sexual abuse within BJU.
Everything was good, or so I thought. Our goals had been accomplished and the semester came to an end.
I came back for my final semester and that is when the problems began.
I was immediately required to have weekly meetings with the Dean of Men where it was implied that because I had questioned BJU’s authority and had gone against their wishes, I must have a deep spiritual problem that needed to be addressed and fixed. He required that I read an entire book of the Bible every day and write out my thoughts and devotions so I could talk to him about it.
As the semester progressed, the meetings changed from a spiritual focus to a focus on my social media activities. Also the frequency of the meetings increased, to the point where I was having midnight meetings.
Stacks of my Facebook and Twitter posts were printed out, highlighted, starred, and circled. I felt that I was being constantly watched, intimidated and harassed.
Surprisingly, only a year earlier, BJU had promised that they would not police students’ social media accounts when they unblocked them on the school networks, allowing us to use Facebook and some other social media sites on campus for the first time. Obviously, that had changed.
Around the final week of March I was called into the Dean of Men’s office for a tweet I had sent. This tweet was sent right before a required Bible Conference service, which is like a chapel service. According to BJU, students are allowed to use their phones up until the time the service actually begins. But I was given 25 demerits for “chapel misconduct” and that put me up to 55 demerits.
On April 12th I was called into the Dean of Men’s office again for allegations that I had been watching TV off campus. I was informed that I was receiving 50 demerits for watching the TV show Glee, but that I had the option to appeal these demerits in a Special Committee of the Discipline Committee. I pled my case that according to the Student Handbook of BJU it is not against the rules to watch TV off campus. There are no written rules about watching any shows while off campus.
The Special Committee heard my plea and then they deliberated on their verdict. They agreed with my assertion that it is not in the rule book that a BJU student can’t watch TV. But they still ruled against me, upholding the 50 demerits, because they said that the nature of Glee itself was so “morally reprehensible.” Specially, they disliked the cheerleader’s outfits, the music, the dancing and the homosexuality. I received 50 demerits for the content alone, even though there was no rule in the handbook about acceptable content.
That ruling put me at 105 demerits, much closer to the 150 limit than I had ever been. Two days later, on April 16th, I received 15 demerits for not shaving, putting me at 120. Now I was worried.
On April 24th I was called into the Dean of Men’s office at 11:00am for what became my final meeting. I was informed that I was receiving 50 demerits for posting lyrics to a Christian song, Matthew West’s “Only Grace,” on my Facebook. I was also informed that I was receiving 25 demerits for posting on Facebook during class.
These new demerits placed me at 195, well over the 150 limit. I was informed that I was expelled from Bob Jones University. I asked to appeal the ruling to the Special Committee and was told that the appeal would take place at 4:00 pm the same day.
Obviously, I was concerned. I had just been denied at my last appeal and the same people were going to be deciding whether or not I was able to remain in school.
I went back to my room and began preparing my defense. I researched information on TRACS, the national accrediting agency that BJU uses, and decided to contact them. I then called the Department of Education to see what my options were with them. I also called Congressman Buchanan (Florida), Senator Rubio (Florida), and Senator DeMint (South Carolina) to see if they could assist me in my predicament. Finally, I contacted the local news agencies that had covered the Do Right BJU story back in December. I informed them that BJU was planning to expel me and that I needed help. I was desperate.
The time for the Special Meeting quickly approached and I went into the meeting with almost full certainty that I was not going to come out of it a BJU student.
I pled my case to the Special Committee. I read the Student Handbook and showed that there were no rules about posting lyrics to songs on a student’s personal Facebook. I also informed them that because I stood to lose everything I had worked for I had contacted many agencies for help.
I left the room and waited for their decision. Once they deliberated and had come to a decision, I was brought back into the meeting and the Committee ruled that I would receive the demerits for posting a Facebook status in class and I would not receive the 50 demerits for the lyrics — bringing me up to 145 total demerits, five demerits shy of expulsion. I was shocked, overwhelmed and overjoyed. I even almost started to cry because I was so amazed. My prayers had been answered.
At this point all of the people on the Committee left the room except for the Dean of Men, the Dean of Students and myself. I assumed that they wanted to pray with me or that they wanted to clarify an issue. To my shock I was informed that I had tried to “intimidate” BJU by contacting outside agencies and that I was being expelled immediately. One moment I was safe and the next I was gone. A member of the Student Life staff followed me around campus until I had packed all of my bags packed and was completely off campus. It took a total of two hours.
Today I am barred from the campus of Bob Jones University, told that if I return I will be immediately arrested. I wasn’t expelled for breaking the rules, because most of my demerits are from arbitrary and capricious rulings. I believe I was expelled because I spoke out. I saw abuse happening and I talked about it. I didn’t back down when threatened. I didn’t give in when I felt stalked. I stood my ground and that, I believe, is why I was expelled just 9 days before my graduation.
One of my goals in sharing my stories is that I hope it can help BJU see the problems there and the overwhelming need for the grace of God to permeate that place. There is no grace at BJU. There is no love.
Probably my favorite song is Only Grace by Matthew West. I would love for the meaning of these words to effect the very core of BJU.
Matthew West’s Only Grace
There is no guilt here
There is no shame
No pointing fingers
There is no blame
What happened yesterday has disappeared
The dirt has washed away
And now its clear
There’s only grace. There’s only love
There’s only mercy and believe me its enough
Your sins are gone
Without a trace
And there’s nothing left now
There’s only grace
Your starting over now
Under the sun
Your stepping forward now
A new life has begun
Your new life has begun
And there’s only grace
There’s only love
There’s only mercy and believe me its enough
Your sins are gone
Without a trace
and there’s nothing left now
There’s only grace
And if you should fall again
Get back up, get back up
Reach out and take my hand
And get back up, get back up
Get back up again
Ooh get back up again
There’s only grace
There’s only love
There’s only mercy and believe me its enough, its enough
Your sins are gone without a trace
and there’s nothing left now
There’s only…there’s only grace
There’s only mercy and believe me its enough, its enough
Your sins are gone without a trace
And there’s nothing left now
There’s only grace….
So get back up, get back up again
Get back up, get back up, get back up again
––––––––––––––––––––––––—
My story
I grew up in Bradenton, Florida where I attended Community Baptist Church and Community Christian School my entire life. CBC is an independent, fundamental, Baptist church within the Bob Jones University network. So from a very young age I knew that I was going to attend BJU in Greenville, South Carolina. That was what was expected of me and that was my dream.
I graduated from high school in 2006 and was immediately accepted to BJU. I attended BJU from 2006 to 2009 and then, I stayed out of school working full time from 2009 through the first semester of 2010 to save enough money to return to school.
During the time I sat out of school I began to interact with people outside of the independent fundamental Baptist church. I realized that there were good Christian people outside of the IFB and I realized that being a Christian wasn’t about following the law; it was about loving others and loving God.
I returned the second semester of 2010 to Bob Jones University with a radically changed view of Christ and the power of grace and love in a Christian’s life. I now realized that because God loves, I am suppose to love everyone. This was a radical shift from my fundamentalist upbringing and from the views of Bob Jones University. But I still returned to BJU expecting to finish my degree in a year and a half and to then be done with BJU.
Little did I know my plans would soon be changed forever.
Before I went back to BJU for second semester 2010 my friend, Beth Murschell, called me and begged me not to go back to school. Even though my personal views had already radically shifted I still supported BJU and I told Beth that I wasn’t going to transfer anywhere else. She told me that there was so much that I didn’t know that she was just finding out and she pleaded with me to transfer.
I refused. I packed my bags, loaded the car, and headed up to BJU, but I continued to remember Beth’s warnings in the back of my head.
My first semester back at BJU was normal. I went to classes, made new friends, and I got no demerits the entire semester. No problems whatsoever … until I read about Tina Anderson.
The beginning of the end began the first semester of 2011. I came across some articles online about a scandal that was happening in Concord, New Hampshire at Trinity Baptist Church. I began to research what was happening and I soon discovered that there were significant issues with the former pastor.
Reverend Chuck Phelps was the pastor at Trinity Baptist Church when Ernest Willis, a 35-year-old man and member of the church, raped Tina Anderson, a 15-year-old member of the same church. This story attracted so much national media attention that http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/scarred-childhood-13334532: ABC’s 20/20 did an investigation on the abuse .
From my research I learned that Chuck Phelps was still on the Board of Trustees at Bob Jones University. It really troubled me that this man was being allowed to continue as a board member in good standing. I felt I had to speak out.
At first I posted links, articles, and even the 20/20 investigation link on my personal Facebook page, but I quickly was reported to the Dean of Men’s office. I was called into his office and the Dean of Men told me point blank that I had to stop talking about the Chuck Phelps situation on my personal Facebook or I would be expelled.
I left his office and immediately created a www.facebook.com/DoRightBJU: Facebook page called Do Right BJU where I wrote anonymously about the Chuck Phelps situation and organized a peaceful student protest. I called on students, faculty, staff and alumni to wear red in support of abuse victims. I also called on BJU to remove Chuck Phelps from the Board of Trustees and to begin educating the BJU students on abuse and signs of abuse.
The protest was held on December 12, 2011 — a handful of BJU students along with a group of alumni wore red that day. In solidarity, many people changed their profile photos to red, creating a virtual sea of red on Facebook.
BJU announced that there would be no consequences for those students organizing or involved with the protest. Chuck Phelps resigned and a committee was formed to investigate allegations of sexual abuse within BJU.
Everything was good, or so I thought. Our goals had been accomplished and the semester came to an end.
I came back for my final semester and that is when the problems began.
I was immediately required to have weekly meetings with the Dean of Men where it was implied that because I had questioned BJU’s authority and had gone against their wishes, I must have a deep spiritual problem that needed to be addressed and fixed. He required that I read an entire book of the Bible every day and write out my thoughts and devotions so I could talk to him about it.
As the semester progressed, the meetings changed from a spiritual focus to a focus on my social media activities. Also the frequency of the meetings increased, to the point where I was having midnight meetings.
Stacks of my Facebook and Twitter posts were printed out, highlighted, starred, and circled. I felt that I was being constantly watched, intimidated and harassed.
Surprisingly, only a year earlier, BJU had promised that they would not police students’ social media accounts when they unblocked them on the school networks, allowing us to use Facebook and some other social media sites on campus for the first time. Obviously, that had changed.
Around the final week of March I was called into the Dean of Men’s office for a tweet I had sent. This tweet was sent right before a required Bible Conference service, which is like a chapel service. According to BJU, students are allowed to use their phones up until the time the service actually begins. But I was given 25 demerits for “chapel misconduct” and that put me up to 55 demerits.
On April 12th I was called into the Dean of Men’s office again for allegations that I had been watching TV off campus. I was informed that I was receiving 50 demerits for watching the TV show Glee, but that I had the option to appeal these demerits in a Special Committee of the Discipline Committee. I pled my case that according to the Student Handbook of BJU it is not against the rules to watch TV off campus. There are no written rules about watching any shows while off campus.
The Special Committee heard my plea and then they deliberated on their verdict. They agreed with my assertion that it is not in the rule book that a BJU student can’t watch TV. But they still ruled against me, upholding the 50 demerits, because they said that the nature of Glee itself was so “morally reprehensible.” Specially, they disliked the cheerleader’s outfits, the music, the dancing and the homosexuality. I received 50 demerits for the content alone, even though there was no rule in the handbook about acceptable content.
That ruling put me at 105 demerits, much closer to the 150 limit than I had ever been. Two days later, on April 16th, I received 15 demerits for not shaving, putting me at 120. Now I was worried.
On April 24th I was called into the Dean of Men’s office at 11:00am for what became my final meeting. I was informed that I was receiving 50 demerits for posting lyrics to a Christian song, Matthew West’s “Only Grace,” on my Facebook. I was also informed that I was receiving 25 demerits for posting on Facebook during class.
These new demerits placed me at 195, well over the 150 limit. I was informed that I was expelled from Bob Jones University. I asked to appeal the ruling to the Special Committee and was told that the appeal would take place at 4:00 pm the same day.
Obviously, I was concerned. I had just been denied at my last appeal and the same people were going to be deciding whether or not I was able to remain in school.
I went back to my room and began preparing my defense. I researched information on TRACS, the national accrediting agency that BJU uses, and decided to contact them. I then called the Department of Education to see what my options were with them. I also called Congressman Buchanan (Florida), Senator Rubio (Florida), and Senator DeMint (South Carolina) to see if they could assist me in my predicament. Finally, I contacted the local news agencies that had covered the Do Right BJU story back in December. I informed them that BJU was planning to expel me and that I needed help. I was desperate.
The time for the Special Meeting quickly approached and I went into the meeting with almost full certainty that I was not going to come out of it a BJU student.
I pled my case to the Special Committee. I read the Student Handbook and showed that there were no rules about posting lyrics to songs on a student’s personal Facebook. I also informed them that because I stood to lose everything I had worked for I had contacted many agencies for help.
I left the room and waited for their decision. Once they deliberated and had come to a decision, I was brought back into the meeting and the Committee ruled that I would receive the demerits for posting a Facebook status in class and I would not receive the 50 demerits for the lyrics — bringing me up to 145 total demerits, five demerits shy of expulsion. I was shocked, overwhelmed and overjoyed. I even almost started to cry because I was so amazed. My prayers had been answered.
At this point all of the people on the Committee left the room except for the Dean of Men, the Dean of Students and myself. I assumed that they wanted to pray with me or that they wanted to clarify an issue. To my shock I was informed that I had tried to “intimidate” BJU by contacting outside agencies and that I was being expelled immediately. One moment I was safe and the next I was gone. A member of the Student Life staff followed me around campus until I had packed all of my bags packed and was completely off campus. It took a total of two hours.
Today I am barred from the campus of Bob Jones University, told that if I return I will be immediately arrested. I wasn’t expelled for breaking the rules, because most of my demerits are from arbitrary and capricious rulings. I believe I was expelled because I spoke out. I saw abuse happening and I talked about it. I didn’t back down when threatened. I didn’t give in when I felt stalked. I stood my ground and that, I believe, is why I was expelled just 9 days before my graduation.
- 204 views
Ok.. i keep getting an error when I try to upload my demerit list. #fail … i can’t figure it out.
but it is online here… http://chucklestravels.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/i-didnt-lie-cheat-plagi…
Not all of the info written on that page is correct … but it is a screenshot of my demerit record.
but it is online here… http://chucklestravels.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/i-didnt-lie-cheat-plagi…
Not all of the info written on that page is correct … but it is a screenshot of my demerit record.
Christopher D. Peterman
BJU Alumnus, class of 2012 -9 days
Do Right BJU, founder
But i did have one last comment.
I was skimming through (and I might have totally missed this or misunderstood or something) .. but I saw that y’all were talking about a post where I said something about the CEO being an [expletive] and that it had to do with BJU.
Umm, no. LOL. I havent ever called DBJ3 an expletive or Stephen Jones (I rather like SJ actually.)
The CEO is Greg Easton. He is the creepy creeper that creeps on me all the time over at his creepy blog called the Hidalgo Grain Company.
He is a jerk and he made me really mad the day I posted the comment. I didn’t write an expletive because I was a current BJU student .. but I did think it. :) The reason why I posted that is because Mr. Easton had edited one of my comments on his creepy blog to say something TOTALLY different than what I had actually said.. and it really made me mad.
Maybe I shouldn’t have posted that .. but it was in a private group (BJU survivors — the old group) and yes, it was directed at him because I know he creeps on everything I say or write and he has little stalkers that gather info for him.
Anyway.. Im going to lunch .. I just wanted to clear that up.
So for the record…. I did NOT call Dr Bob or anyone else at BJU an expletive.
Thanks, Chris
I was skimming through (and I might have totally missed this or misunderstood or something) .. but I saw that y’all were talking about a post where I said something about the CEO being an [expletive] and that it had to do with BJU.
Umm, no. LOL. I havent ever called DBJ3 an expletive or Stephen Jones (I rather like SJ actually.)
The CEO is Greg Easton. He is the creepy creeper that creeps on me all the time over at his creepy blog called the Hidalgo Grain Company.
He is a jerk and he made me really mad the day I posted the comment. I didn’t write an expletive because I was a current BJU student .. but I did think it. :) The reason why I posted that is because Mr. Easton had edited one of my comments on his creepy blog to say something TOTALLY different than what I had actually said.. and it really made me mad.
Maybe I shouldn’t have posted that .. but it was in a private group (BJU survivors — the old group) and yes, it was directed at him because I know he creeps on everything I say or write and he has little stalkers that gather info for him.
Anyway.. Im going to lunch .. I just wanted to clear that up.
So for the record…. I did NOT call Dr Bob or anyone else at BJU an expletive.
Thanks, Chris
Christopher D. Peterman
BJU Alumnus, class of 2012 -9 days
Do Right BJU, founder
I do not wish to read the whole thread and if this has been covered forgive me but if what you say is accurate it likely can be proven and I am sure a good attorney might be interested in aiding you in holding this institution accountable for its injury and suffering to you, again assuming it is accurate. I would be shocked to discover they did not act with counsel but you never know.
I appreciated Chris coming back. And I appreciated the tone of his responses. I will be looking forward to hearing what he has to say about the rest of the inquiries on the thread.
One thing that has bothered me all along, and bothers me more now that Chris has spoken to it again, is the Glee episodes. I grew up in Christians schools and colleges within the BJU orbit. I have a hard time believing someone raised in such an orbit can say about Glee that
One thing that has bothered me all along, and bothers me more now that Chris has spoken to it again, is the Glee episodes. I grew up in Christians schools and colleges within the BJU orbit. I have a hard time believing someone raised in such an orbit can say about Glee that
it never crossed my mind that it was uncheckable.and keep a straight face.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
So, Chris, watching Glee wasn’t a concern to you? Do you think BJ was right in giving you demerits for watching this particular show?
-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
[Rev Karl] From my time matriculating at the university, I can say that a student can commit the minor infractions listed and *NOT* get demerits, because it is not possible for a limited number of faculty, staff and student assistants to be everywhere all the time monitoring every student 24/7. However, if a student *is* watched all day, every day, just the simple act of living in a situation where so much has to be accomplished in a finite amount of time is going to reveal infractions - deliberate or truly unintentional - that will be tracked, racked and totalled up quickly. Just the fact of being watched 24/7, monitored and documented will raise the total of your infractions. Fast.I recommend everybody refresh their mind on this post and then think again about what Chris has said.
Any BJU grad would probably agree with Rev. Karl’s statement. I do, and I think I never got more than 15 demerits — most semesters, 5 or so.
If, in fact, as Chris alleges, he was watched incessantly after his return, then I think the result would be inevitable.
It is not that there were not grounds for expulsion.
It’s that many students who had similar behaviors will graduate.
Now, there’s a difference between fairness and justice, to be sure. But there is also the matter of being equitable. From the moment the Dean of Men called Chris in for special sessions after the president promised “no recriminations”, the result was predictable.
Yes, if Chris really has a case, he should see a lawyer. And the lawyer would tell him that every Internet posting and media interaction jeopardizes his case….
***
Mike D, by Chris’ own testimony, the Glee thing didn’t come because he was being “watched” but because a student’s girlfriend saw something, told her boyfriend, and he reported it. I doubt many BJU students who graduated have been threatening the university or saying online that they aren’t friends of the university. I’m pretty sure any student caught watching Glee would get demerits.
***
Setting the whole BJU thing aside for a moment (and whether they were right or wrong), I hope you’ll do some serious self-examination. Because when profanity bubbles into your mind when you are angry, when you think that is something to smile about, when you think watching Glee is a good way to spend your time, when you don’t see anything wrong with that, something is wrong. Maybe the school pushed the limits on what they should have done in your case, maybe they didn’t. But you’ve been pushing some limits on what pleases the Lord, and that’s a much bigger issue for you for the rest of your life.
You’ve told the media this shook your faith, and that the support of some other people helped with that. Your faith must be built on some pretty sandy territory. Either it is built on the rock of Christ’s death on the cross for you, or it isn’t. If it is, whether other Christians (or alleged Christians) support or attack you is irrelevant. Most of us have been supported and attacked by Christians (or alleged Christians). Some have suffered worse at their hands than anything you might have suffered at BJU. If you have faith in Christ, the kind of faith that people have died for, you don’t get shaken in that just because of what some people do.
Your comments set off huge warning bells. And I doubt your Do Right friends are telling you that — all they want is for you to keep on trying to discredit BJU.
Go way back up in the thread and read Pastor Roof’s comment. And then find a pastor who has no pro or anti BJU agenda, and will just be concerned about >you<. And show him everything you’ve written, and tell him exactly what a BJU rep would say if they were there to describe your behaviour. Better — ask him to contact BJU as your spiritual advisor, and give them written permission to talk to him about what happened. Maybe they won’t talk to him, but you can try. And ask him to be honest with you about what you yourself have contributed to the problem, and what you should do now. And really, really listen to him. Because this is not 100% BJU’s fault and 0% yours, and you are spiritually responsible for the portion that is your fault.
***
Mike D, by Chris’ own testimony, the Glee thing didn’t come because he was being “watched” but because a student’s girlfriend saw something, told her boyfriend, and he reported it. I doubt many BJU students who graduated have been threatening the university or saying online that they aren’t friends of the university. I’m pretty sure any student caught watching Glee would get demerits.
***
He is a jerk and he made me really mad the day I posted the comment. I didn’t write an expletive because I was a current BJU student .. but I did think it. :) The reason why I posted that is because Mr. Easton had edited one of my comments on his creepy blog to say something TOTALLY different than what I had actually said.. and it really made me mad.Chris, what you say about Eastons is not hard to believe. It doesn’t matter. In no way was your response appropriate, and it isn’t appropriate to think that way, and it isn’t a “smiley face” item.
Setting the whole BJU thing aside for a moment (and whether they were right or wrong), I hope you’ll do some serious self-examination. Because when profanity bubbles into your mind when you are angry, when you think that is something to smile about, when you think watching Glee is a good way to spend your time, when you don’t see anything wrong with that, something is wrong. Maybe the school pushed the limits on what they should have done in your case, maybe they didn’t. But you’ve been pushing some limits on what pleases the Lord, and that’s a much bigger issue for you for the rest of your life.
You’ve told the media this shook your faith, and that the support of some other people helped with that. Your faith must be built on some pretty sandy territory. Either it is built on the rock of Christ’s death on the cross for you, or it isn’t. If it is, whether other Christians (or alleged Christians) support or attack you is irrelevant. Most of us have been supported and attacked by Christians (or alleged Christians). Some have suffered worse at their hands than anything you might have suffered at BJU. If you have faith in Christ, the kind of faith that people have died for, you don’t get shaken in that just because of what some people do.
Your comments set off huge warning bells. And I doubt your Do Right friends are telling you that — all they want is for you to keep on trying to discredit BJU.
Go way back up in the thread and read Pastor Roof’s comment. And then find a pastor who has no pro or anti BJU agenda, and will just be concerned about >you<. And show him everything you’ve written, and tell him exactly what a BJU rep would say if they were there to describe your behaviour. Better — ask him to contact BJU as your spiritual advisor, and give them written permission to talk to him about what happened. Maybe they won’t talk to him, but you can try. And ask him to be honest with you about what you yourself have contributed to the problem, and what you should do now. And really, really listen to him. Because this is not 100% BJU’s fault and 0% yours, and you are spiritually responsible for the portion that is your fault.
[JG] Mike D, by Chris’ own testimony, the Glee thing didn’t come because he was being “watched” but because a student’s girlfriend saw something, told her boyfriend, and he reported it. I doubt many BJU students who graduated have been threatening the university or saying online that they aren’t friends of the university. I’m pretty sure any student caught watching Glee would get demerits.Yes, JG. You are correct, and I find the “Glee” thing incomprehensible (as in, what’s the appeal to a believer?). I suppose a team of Youth Pastors working in the most liberal areas in America might want to take in an episode or two to understand what their public school teens are living with every day, but it seems pretty far out for even most public schools. And then there is the egregiousness issue. Do we really need to hear and see details to know what’s going on? So, having thoroughly thought it through, I think the 50 demerits for Glee were dead on, given the standard at BJU.
BUT, you miss my point. I’m not talking about the Glee thing. I’m talking about the whole picture — that in that context, it seems to be that “a watched student always fries.”
[JG] If you have faith in Christ, the kind of faith that people have died for, you don’t get shaken in that just because of what some people do.JG, you earlier posted a comment about Chris titled “too stupid to graduate.” Why would you attempt to counsel him now? This thread is about whether BJU (an institution) kept its ethical standards when dealing with a student who started a group that challenged some of BJU’s policies. Certainly, Chris’ actions will be discussed because those are part of how this played out. But spiritually counseling him when you so obviously dislike him and believe the worst of him (and posted a comment calling him “too stupid to graduate”) is certainly not helpful to Chris’ spiritual condition.
Your comments set off huge warning bells. And I doubt your Do Right friends are telling you that — all they want is for you to keep on trying to discredit BJU.
Go way back up in the thread and read Pastor Roof’s comment. And then find a pastor who has no pro or anti BJU agenda, and will just be concerned about >you<. And show him everything you’ve written, and tell him exactly what a BJU rep would say if they were there to describe your behaviour. Better — ask him to contact BJU as your spiritual advisor, and give them written permission to talk to him about what happened. Maybe they won’t talk to him, but you can try. And ask him to be honest with you about what you yourself have contributed to the problem, and what you should do now. And really, really listen to him. Because this is not 100% BJU’s fault and 0% yours, and you are spiritually responsible for the portion that is your fault.
You don’t know Christopher, and you assume a lot about his character. If Christopher was in as bad shape as you think he is, you ought to know that your “counsel” would only harden his heart. That’s a basic counseling technique that I learned from a BJU professor teaching a counseling course. Thankfully, though he’s been hurt by how this all played out, his faith does seem strong. However, I feel fairly certain he won’t frequent the halls of fundamentalism anymore. And your comment probably reinforces why he won’t.
On I-35 / pouring rain / near tx border / wife driving / ipadding
Briefly want to say that I do not find CEO creepy
He’s not a member here
I have emailed back and forth w him over the last 6 mon or so
Briefly want to say that I do not find CEO creepy
He’s not a member here
I have emailed back and forth w him over the last 6 mon or so
Mike, students on probation get through all the time, and he wasn’t even officially on probation.
Any institution functions this way. If you have someone in your church who starts to sound like they are opposed to what you stand for, you start to watch. You find out — either you misunderstood them, or they drifted but are getting back on track, or there really is a problem and you have to address it.
It’s the same with a company with disgruntled employees. You don’t think they watch them?
Watched people who keep climbing back into the pan always fry — at BJU and everywhere else.
***
Here’s something I wrote a couple days ago. “Sometimes our enemies are better at seeing our flaws than our friends are, so they may have the most valuable criticisms (even if they express them horribly or grossly overstate them).” A friend doesn’t tell us, “Oh, you’re ok” when something goes wrong. A friend tells us, “Check yourself to see your responsibility, where you erred, what you should change. Get that sorted first, then we can talk about what they did wrong.” If you are a friend to him, that’s what YOU should be telling him, rather than, “Chris is totally innocent.”
***
Jim, I wouldn’t call Easton creepy at all, but he will quote things out of context and give twisted portrayals of what someone said. I don’t know if he did that to Chris or not, but I know he’s done it in the past.
Any institution functions this way. If you have someone in your church who starts to sound like they are opposed to what you stand for, you start to watch. You find out — either you misunderstood them, or they drifted but are getting back on track, or there really is a problem and you have to address it.
It’s the same with a company with disgruntled employees. You don’t think they watch them?
Watched people who keep climbing back into the pan always fry — at BJU and everywhere else.
***
[Dan Frank] JG, you earlier posted a comment about Chris titled “too stupid to graduate.”Post #78, in case anyone missed it. It wasn’t “too stupid to graduate,” it was “too stupid to graduate?” And it facetiously said maybe they decided the things he was doing to make himself a target showed he was too stupid to get a diploma. It had a smiley face — a joke (most people understand that). It was a joke with a point — Chris seemed to want to make himself a target with the things he was posting online. If Chris didn’t get the joke, then I want to apologise to him right now. I don’t think Chris is stupid at all (that’s pretty clear) but he did do some very stupid things, if he didn’t want to get shipped. I bet he’d admit it, too.
[Dan Frank] But spiritually counseling him when you so obviously dislike him and believe the worst of him (and posted a comment calling him “too stupid to graduate”) is certainly not helpful to Chris’ spiritual condition.Why are you “counseling” me when you so obviously dislike me, then? Is Chris so fragile that he can’t be challenged by someone who doesn’t agree with everything he does to look at himself to see what he’s done wrong? I don’t dislike Chris at all. I don’t even know him. I think he made some bad mistakes, whether BJU handled him poorly or not. I think just about everyone here (except maybe you, who said he’s “totally innocent”) can see there are some spiritual concerns, including some who are somewhat on his side.
Here’s something I wrote a couple days ago. “Sometimes our enemies are better at seeing our flaws than our friends are, so they may have the most valuable criticisms (even if they express them horribly or grossly overstate them).” A friend doesn’t tell us, “Oh, you’re ok” when something goes wrong. A friend tells us, “Check yourself to see your responsibility, where you erred, what you should change. Get that sorted first, then we can talk about what they did wrong.” If you are a friend to him, that’s what YOU should be telling him, rather than, “Chris is totally innocent.”
[Dan Frank] You don’t know Christopher, and you assume a lot about his character.I assume nothing except what his statements and actions show. Either he’s in real spiritual trouble or he has some bad blind spots. I don’t know which it is.
[Dan Frank] his faith does seem strong.Did you read the CNN article?
***
Jim, I wouldn’t call Easton creepy at all, but he will quote things out of context and give twisted portrayals of what someone said. I don’t know if he did that to Chris or not, but I know he’s done it in the past.
[Dan Frank] This thread is about whether BJU (an institution) kept its ethical standards when dealing with a student who started a group that challenged some of BJU’s policies.Actually, Dan, that’s not what the thread is about. That’s what you keep trying to make the thread about. The title of the thread is actually, “Christopher Peterman, founder of Do Right BJU, expelled 9 days before his BJU graduation.” The article is about a young man who was expelled. The discussion of the University is ancillary to the core. Any discussion about Chris is what is actually germane.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
[JG]Is this your justification for your critical spirit toward Chris?
Here’s something I wrote a couple days ago. “Sometimes our enemies are better at seeing our flaws than our friends are, so they may have the most valuable criticisms (even if they express them horribly or grossly overstate them).”
[Chip Van Emmerik]I started the thread, Chip. That’s what it was about.[Dan Frank] This thread is about whether BJU (an institution) kept its ethical standards when dealing with a student who started a group that challenged some of BJU’s policies.Actually, Dan, that’s not what the thread is about. That’s what you keep trying to make the thread about. The title of the thread is actually, “Christopher Peterman, founder of Do Right BJU, expelled 9 days before his BJU graduation.” The article is about a young man who was expelled. The discussion of the University is ancillary to the core. Any discussion about Chris is what is actually germane.
Kids get expelled at BJU all the time. But only one kid in the history of BJU has organized a protest on campus, and he got expelled 9 days before graduation. The link between his protest and the concern that BJU TARGETED him because of that protest is the subject of this thread.
[Dan Frank] I started the thread, Chip. That’s what it was about.Oh. It looked like Christ started the thread since his name is listed as the poster. If you wanted us to focus on ripping BJ, maybe you should have chosen a more accurate title, like, “Help us find the speck in Bob Jones University’s eye, but ignore the beam in in the expelled student’s eye.”
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
Chris Peterman wrote:One of my goals in sharing my stories is that I hope it can help BJU see the problems there and the overwhelming need for the grace of God to permeate that place.If Dan is right, and JG should have avoided giving advice, perhaps Chris would take advice from himself. Not seeing much grace in the way Chris himself handled things, before or after the expulsion.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
[Chip Van Emmerik]Chip,[Dan Frank] I started the thread, Chip. That’s what it was about.Oh. It looked like Christ started the thread since his name is listed as the poster. If you wanted us to focus on ripping BJ, maybe you should have chosen a more accurate title, like, “Help us find the speck in Bob Jones University’s eye, but ignore the beam in in the expelled student’s eye.”
Just remember that Dan has http://sharperiron.org/comment/43000#comment-43000] explicitly said :
Nothing happened between me and BJ. You just can’t except that I’m not some bitter person with an ax to grind. But the truth is that the way BJ handled first the Phelps situation and now the final expulsion of Chris reflects very poorly on the gospel of Christ. THAT is the reason, not any bitterness with BJ, that causes me to raise this issue.After I asked him the http://sharperiron.org/comment/42998#comment-42998] very same thing .
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Dan Frank]Wow. “Critical spirit.” I’m sure I’ve heard about that way of viewing things somewhere before. If you don’t agree with someone’s view of things, if you think they haven’t done things right, you have a “critical spirit.” Where was it I heard about this?[JG]Is this your justification for your critical spirit toward Chris?
Here’s something I wrote a couple days ago. “Sometimes our enemies are better at seeing our flaws than our friends are, so they may have the most valuable criticisms (even if they express them horribly or grossly overstate them).”
Ah, I’ve got it! That’s what they always used to say at BJU, or so I’ve heard! :)
Who would have guessed? :)
***
But seriously, it’s not justification for anything. It’s a challenge to have the courage and humility to consider whether there is something in criticism even if the critics don’t seem to be friends to us.
Like taking the criticism that my “stupid” comment may not have been taken as a joke, and apologising for it, for instance.
I’ll drop out now. We’ll not be on the same page in any respect, apparently. So there’s no profit.
[JG] Mike, students on probation get through all the time, and he wasn’t even officially on probation.Great point. But if the corporate president promised “no recriminations”, would that change this formula? Should it?
Any institution functions this way. If you have someone in your church who starts to sound like they are opposed to what you stand for, you start to watch. You find out — either you misunderstood them, or they drifted but are getting back on track, or there really is a problem and you have to address it.
It’s the same with a company with disgruntled employees. You don’t think they watch them?
Watched people who keep climbing back into the pan always fry — at BJU and everywhere else.
You keep getting hung up on the ‘no recriminiations’ thing…have you read Chris’ demerit record? It seems to me that Chris was promised that they wouldn’t do that, and then behaved so poorly that they had no choice but to ship him and now it’s all BJU’s fault because they didn’t play fair on the DRBJU protest. If Chris is willing to stand up and admit to any kind of guilt - for cursing people on Facebook, for deliberately listening to WTK while a student, for leaving the school campus to break the rules about watching Glee, or for any of the other things, then you might have a point. All we’re getting instead is headlines like ‘BJU expels student 9 days before graduation for watching Glee’.
BUT, you miss my point. I’m not talking about the Glee thing. I’m talking about the whole picture — that in that context, it seems to be that “a watched student always fries.”So…even if Chris had repented and tried to everything right at the beginning of his final semester, the school would have expelled him anyway?
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Mike Durning] Great point. But if the corporate president promised “no recriminations”, would that change this formula? Should it?I doubt it, Mike. “No recriminations” means no discipline for past actions. It doesn’t necessarily mean trust is unaffected. It’s the old “trust, but verify” thing — you do more “verifying” if you think someone is opposed to you. Chris kept making them think that.
I’m NOT saying BJU did right. How could I know either way? Keeping a closer eye to make sure things are ok, or actively looking to get rid of someone, which was it? The former doesn’t seem wrong, the latter does. Chris will say it was the latter, but he undermined his case for it.
I really do need to drop out. Thanks for the good interaction, Mike.
As I have contemplated this situation and read the things that others have written, one major thing comes to mind and that is Chris’s response in general. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have many times in my life suffered because of the inconsistencies of others, both in the world and in Church. Sometimes, I was guilty of wrong doing as the other party was. However, my response is the only thing that God wants me to be concerned about. He never gives me the right to be vengeful. Often He has asked me to even stay in a situation and deal with my attitude at least for awhile instead of immediately moving me on. Whether or not BJU handled this perfectly (and I doubt they did), Chris’s response is what I have a problem with and why I started posting on this topic to begin with.
Just because something is lawful, doesn’t make it right—ie. going to the news media. Everything we do must be judged under the microscope of scripture. When we do that, we find so many things that we personally need to work that our focus will be less on the failures of other and more on how we can be more Christ like. That’s a huge challenge for me and I daresay for all of you.
Just because something is lawful, doesn’t make it right—ie. going to the news media. Everything we do must be judged under the microscope of scripture. When we do that, we find so many things that we personally need to work that our focus will be less on the failures of other and more on how we can be more Christ like. That’s a huge challenge for me and I daresay for all of you.
Michelle Shuman
That one statement hits the nail squarely on the head in this unfortunate situation. If Chris Peterman was really sincere about finishing his degree, then instead of threatening to go to the media “… MARK MY WORDS …” he said—he should have respectfully apologized and asked them what he needed to do to get his degree nine days later. It may very well have been a lost cause even at that point, but if finishing his degree really meant anything to him … for crying out loud … NINE more days … !!! I would sooner eat crow for nine days than flush all that work and money right down the toilet like he did. There is no logic; not even common sense to what he did and he CAN“T blame it all on BJU.
Looking at his thumbing his nose at BJU since his expulsion, I would suspect he has been doing it all semester, provoking the University until they concluded they no longer had a choice. He knew he was under scrutiny, but continued his defiance of rules he knew all too well, while hiding behind the mantra of speaking out for “the abused.” I have never been able to grasp the logic of being abusive toward others,(as in mocking and ridiculing them) then when those people (or organizations) respond to it by defending themselves, suddenly the one who had been dishing out the abuse then cries foul about being “the abused” and then starts “playing the victim.”
Chris should take heed to the fact that should there be any falsehoods documented in his written posts on social media, and in his spoken videos—whether real interviews with real news media, or completely staged to appear that way—if any falsehoods are documented and connected to an intent to defame, slander, or libel BJU (which intent seems pretty clear to me) then he could be in deep trouble should BJU decide to sue him. I have no doubt that they are acting even now with legal counsel. I read one comment on a blog which stated that the University has been advised by its lawyers not to make any response at this time. Smart move. The more Chris talks, the deeper he is digging himself into a hole. Should legal action take place, I wonder where all his disgruntled alumni friends will be then. I fear he will find himself terribly alone.
Looking at his thumbing his nose at BJU since his expulsion, I would suspect he has been doing it all semester, provoking the University until they concluded they no longer had a choice. He knew he was under scrutiny, but continued his defiance of rules he knew all too well, while hiding behind the mantra of speaking out for “the abused.” I have never been able to grasp the logic of being abusive toward others,(as in mocking and ridiculing them) then when those people (or organizations) respond to it by defending themselves, suddenly the one who had been dishing out the abuse then cries foul about being “the abused” and then starts “playing the victim.”
Chris should take heed to the fact that should there be any falsehoods documented in his written posts on social media, and in his spoken videos—whether real interviews with real news media, or completely staged to appear that way—if any falsehoods are documented and connected to an intent to defame, slander, or libel BJU (which intent seems pretty clear to me) then he could be in deep trouble should BJU decide to sue him. I have no doubt that they are acting even now with legal counsel. I read one comment on a blog which stated that the University has been advised by its lawyers not to make any response at this time. Smart move. The more Chris talks, the deeper he is digging himself into a hole. Should legal action take place, I wonder where all his disgruntled alumni friends will be then. I fear he will find himself terribly alone.
TBD
Authority always has the greater responsibility. Who should be the bigger person here? Always, always, always it is the one in authority.
If I see a 5 year old at the mall kicking his parent in the knee, the Bible doesn’t call me to intervene. But if I see a parent kicking his child, it would be sin for me to turn away and not help or contact child services.
If a student without power has faults and an authority over him has faults, the Bible clearly places upon the average Christian the responsibility to advocate for the one in the weaker position. The authorities don’t need an advocate — they are the one with the power!
The bottom line here is that BJU threatened Chris when he first started the DRBJU group, then put an RA in his room for 2nd semester to watch him constantly. Subsequently, he got demerits at midnight for things like not shaving. He felt put in a corner at the end, and he defended himself vigorously. He had plenty to lose, and he was right to fear losing it.
BJU is going to have to figure out a different way for dealing with students who disagree with them. They accept government funds. They can no longer claim a “my way or the highway” version of Christian education. And morally, if BJU accepts a students full tuition money, they have the responsibility to insure a route for the student to receive what they paid for.
If I see a 5 year old at the mall kicking his parent in the knee, the Bible doesn’t call me to intervene. But if I see a parent kicking his child, it would be sin for me to turn away and not help or contact child services.
If a student without power has faults and an authority over him has faults, the Bible clearly places upon the average Christian the responsibility to advocate for the one in the weaker position. The authorities don’t need an advocate — they are the one with the power!
The bottom line here is that BJU threatened Chris when he first started the DRBJU group, then put an RA in his room for 2nd semester to watch him constantly. Subsequently, he got demerits at midnight for things like not shaving. He felt put in a corner at the end, and he defended himself vigorously. He had plenty to lose, and he was right to fear losing it.
BJU is going to have to figure out a different way for dealing with students who disagree with them. They accept government funds. They can no longer claim a “my way or the highway” version of Christian education. And morally, if BJU accepts a students full tuition money, they have the responsibility to insure a route for the student to receive what they paid for.
The Bible clearly says each person is fully responsible for his own activity. Read Ezekiel 18.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
Dan:
Where in Scripture are you getting your ideas from? I have yet to read anything in Scripture that says I only have to obey, respect, honor, pray for authority if I agree with it or I like it. I also have never seen a place where I am given the okay to disobey and that an Authority has the bigger responsibility in a problem situation. What would the Apostles think about Chris’s response to authority?
I understand the hurt, but Chris brought it on himself. There is nothing on his demerit record that indicates that he was given demerits for not be clean shaven at midnight. He knew the rules and he chose to break them and he chose to disobey, disrespect, and dishonor authority. In addition, he has continued to do so and has written and said things that are totally unbiblical.
Please give me scripture references that justifies his disobedience to scripture, his watching of the “lusts of the flesh”, and close affiliation with those who hate God and His Word and live in direct disobedience to it.
Chris has no defense. I understand being hurt by a fellow believer—been lied about, discriminated against and it cost me my job, but I also came out the better and the other person has not. I also live regularly with be treated inconsistently by Biblically established authority, but I have no God-given right to disobey or dishonor. To this point, He won’t let me leave it and move on, but then if I did God knows that I’d then be in another same type situation because after all we are all sinful in our nature.
Please, please, please get out your Bible and read the New Testament epistles. I think you will find much more there than would be necessary to even begin to solve this issue.
Where in Scripture are you getting your ideas from? I have yet to read anything in Scripture that says I only have to obey, respect, honor, pray for authority if I agree with it or I like it. I also have never seen a place where I am given the okay to disobey and that an Authority has the bigger responsibility in a problem situation. What would the Apostles think about Chris’s response to authority?
I understand the hurt, but Chris brought it on himself. There is nothing on his demerit record that indicates that he was given demerits for not be clean shaven at midnight. He knew the rules and he chose to break them and he chose to disobey, disrespect, and dishonor authority. In addition, he has continued to do so and has written and said things that are totally unbiblical.
Please give me scripture references that justifies his disobedience to scripture, his watching of the “lusts of the flesh”, and close affiliation with those who hate God and His Word and live in direct disobedience to it.
Chris has no defense. I understand being hurt by a fellow believer—been lied about, discriminated against and it cost me my job, but I also came out the better and the other person has not. I also live regularly with be treated inconsistently by Biblically established authority, but I have no God-given right to disobey or dishonor. To this point, He won’t let me leave it and move on, but then if I did God knows that I’d then be in another same type situation because after all we are all sinful in our nature.
Please, please, please get out your Bible and read the New Testament epistles. I think you will find much more there than would be necessary to even begin to solve this issue.
Michelle Shuman
I doubt there is value to a debate over the Bible’s teaching on advocating for those abused by spiritual authority, but I will add a few thoughts. Scripture clearly teaches authorities, especially parental authority (and BJU holds strongly to in loco parentis as justification for their heavy handed techniques) RESTRAINT of their authority. Ephesians 6 is a clear one in the New Testament, but Paul mentions it other places as well. “Fathers, do not EXASPERATE/PROVOKE your children to anger.”
In authoritarian relationships, the one in authority is the one with a greater ability to abuse the relationship, hence Paul and Peter’s stronger exhortations throughout the New Testament to husbands to love, honor, and defer to wives and parents to put careful limits on how they act out their authority with their children. In his commentary of Ephesians 6, John Stott notes that “it is not the exercise of their authority but the restraint that Paul urges upon them.”
In authoritarian relationships, the one in authority is the one with a greater ability to abuse the relationship, hence Paul and Peter’s stronger exhortations throughout the New Testament to husbands to love, honor, and defer to wives and parents to put careful limits on how they act out their authority with their children. In his commentary of Ephesians 6, John Stott notes that “it is not the exercise of their authority but the restraint that Paul urges upon them.”
Dan,
Even if everything you have said about authority is true, it doesn’t excuse Chris. Sadly, that seems to be something neither of you can accept.
Even if everything you have said about authority is true, it doesn’t excuse Chris. Sadly, that seems to be something neither of you can accept.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
Dan:
You are right that God commands authority to use restraint. But you miss the point. I’m not talking about Bob Jones’ response. None of us know whether or not they have done anything wrong because we weren’t there and they have said nothing (which they should do or they would be breaking privacy laws). What we have is Chris’ response to authority. He openly broke rules he agreed to obey. That is direct disobedience to God. God tells all of us to obey, etc. Again, He doesn’t leave it open for us to pick and chose what we want to obey. In addition, by Chris’ watching Glee, he was in disobedience of many of God’s commands to abstain from the world and things of the flesh. My opinion is based strictly on three things—the Bible’s commands, Chris’ own admission of doing wrong, and his open disrespect to the authority he agreed to obey. Only eternity will tell the truth if God so chooses to reveal it.
I like many others realize that there is really no convincing you of the problems Chris has created for himself so I must end.
You are right that God commands authority to use restraint. But you miss the point. I’m not talking about Bob Jones’ response. None of us know whether or not they have done anything wrong because we weren’t there and they have said nothing (which they should do or they would be breaking privacy laws). What we have is Chris’ response to authority. He openly broke rules he agreed to obey. That is direct disobedience to God. God tells all of us to obey, etc. Again, He doesn’t leave it open for us to pick and chose what we want to obey. In addition, by Chris’ watching Glee, he was in disobedience of many of God’s commands to abstain from the world and things of the flesh. My opinion is based strictly on three things—the Bible’s commands, Chris’ own admission of doing wrong, and his open disrespect to the authority he agreed to obey. Only eternity will tell the truth if God so chooses to reveal it.
I like many others realize that there is really no convincing you of the problems Chris has created for himself so I must end.
Michelle Shuman
Did BJU make demands that were immoral or illegal? They may have rules that others do not agree with, their policies address many behaviors that aren’t clearly addressed in Scripture (what organization doesn’t?), and they may apply them in a way that seems inconsistent. But at what point did they ask Chris to do something that violated Scripture?
I know this thread is dying, but Chris said something I’d like to know a little more about.
[ChrisPeterman] And yes, people might think I’m a “troublemaker” or whatever.. and yes, talking about the rules might distract from the Phelps incident …… but my life isn’t about one issue. I dont think it is wrong for a college student, a 23 year old adult, to talk about the issues and problems at an institution. BJU is not a ministry. It is a family run business and I was it’s patron for 6 years. I have EVERY right to question the rules and voice my opinion.Chris, were you a student of BJA or were you a student at BJU for 6 years? Also, someone mentioned that you still owe the school money. Is that true?
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Jay] Chris, were you a student of BJA or were you a student at BJU for 6 years? Also, someone mentioned that you still owe the school money. Is that true?I remember CP mentioned in his OP that he took some time off - the expression is “he crammed 4 years into 6.”
As for owing the school money, I don’t know how it is now, but back in the early 80’s, the business office would not let a student begin the final semester if he had an outstanding bill.
(Earlier in this thread, I related a story from my time at The University. I overheard a teacher having a conversation in church. “Any time I hear someone complaining about the school, I ask them one of two questions: what were you shipped for? or how much do you owe the school?” After the responses of hundreds of graduates on DRBJU who were never shipped, and who do not owe the school anything, I believe that we can discount those two precepts as automatic causes of discontent.)
Chris has the right (see above posts - it’s documented in BJU’s student handbook!) to appeal ultimately to TRACS. I suspect there might be an intermediate step that may have been skipped.
I’m not convinced he will prevail w TRACS because of the student covenant, the rule book, Et cetera.
But appealing in the formally prescribed manner is preferable to a media campaign that simply airs dirty laundry in public - eg the CNN IReport!
If Chris fails to follow the official appeal process, Chris P will soon be forgotten old news.
I’m not convinced he will prevail w TRACS because of the student covenant, the rule book, Et cetera.
But appealing in the formally prescribed manner is preferable to a media campaign that simply airs dirty laundry in public - eg the CNN IReport!
If Chris fails to follow the official appeal process, Chris P will soon be forgotten old news.
[Susan R] Did BJU make demands that were immoral or illegal? They may have rules that others do not agree with, their policies address many behaviors that aren’t clearly addressed in Scripture (what organization doesn’t?), and they may apply them in a way that seems inconsistent. But at what point did they ask Chris to do something that violated Scripture?It’s all questions on this thread. And no answers.
As an alum, I think Chris’s story seems plausible.
Chris alleges two things:
1) BJU unethically allowed Phelps to hold a board seat.
2) Out of resentment for being challenged on #1, BJU used their demerit system to force a situation that resulted in expulsion.
BJU isn’t going to comment. Chris apparently isn’t going to comment.
To BJU:
It must be very concerning to look toward the future. There is a danger of placing too much value on old contacts and supporters like Phelps.
But if the old type of referral churches are lost, can BJU attract a new type of family from which to draw students?
Would it ever be ethical to start selling paintings (or shares in the museum) to support dedicated faculty as the school downsizes?
To Chris:
Don’t imagine that a really good and courageous choice somehow sanctifies every choice you make.
And don’t imagine that a case (or cases) of doing wrong, no matter now clear, somehow condemns every person and choice at BJU. To say that there is no grace at BJU is ridiculous. You have found (allegedly) a few cases of genuinely bad behavior. And it was made worse because it was accompanied by pride. Not examples of God’s grace. But still, there is grace there. That might be really hard for you to see.
You should pick up and read Religious Affections. To live in such a way that no one will ever accuse you of lacking grace is a mighty task. As you get older and wiser, you’ll get a better sense of your own shortcomings and those of others will seem small by comparison.
As you get older and wiser, you’ll get a better sense of your own shortcomings and those of others will seem small by comparison.Boy Dan, you said a mouthful.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
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