James MacDonald Resigns from TGC
From the “Why I …” one…
“I have very different views on how to relate to the broader church and how the gospel must impact every relationship. I don’t want my minor role on the Council to hinder their work as a whole or to give the impression they agree with all God has called me to do.”
“I have very different views on how to relate to the broader church and how the gospel must impact every relationship. I don’t want my minor role on the Council to hinder their work as a whole or to give the impression they agree with all God has called me to do.”
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Elephant Room 2 is tomorrow.
Is Jakes still on the schedule?
EDIT: Just found the right site. Looks like he is.
Is Jakes still on the schedule?
EDIT: Just found the right site. Looks like he is.
The elephant (MacDonald) left the room (TFG)!
You can’t fire me, I QUIT!
Donn R Arms
I’m so glad to hear this. It looks like the “centered and bounded” set really did have boundaries.
I’m glad that he’s resigning, and it sounds like he’s doing it for the right reasons, but does this mean the TGC is self policing or is this just a “I’m so much of a problem that I’m detracting from TGC so I quit” thing?
More importantly, if he’s quitting, and this is a TGC self-policing thing, then why is Jakes still on the docket?
More importantly, if he’s quitting, and this is a TGC self-policing thing, then why is Jakes still on the docket?
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Jay C.] More importantly, if he’s quitting, and this is a TGC self-policing thing, then why is Jakes still on the docket?One possibility: Jakes is on the docket because MacDonald quit because TGC told him Jakes had to come off the Docket or MacDonald could not stay in TGC and MacDonald was not going to take Jakes off the docket.
Pure speculation but fits the facts and the timing.
[DavidO]David, I agree exactly. The main thing that points to that is the timing.[Jay C.] More importantly, if he’s quitting, and this is a TGC self-policing thing, then why is Jakes still on the docket?One possibility: Jakes is on the docket because MacDonald quit because TGC told him Jakes had to come off the Docket or MacDonald could not stay in TGC and MacDonald was not going to take Jakes off the docket.
Pure speculation but fits the facts and the timing.
Shane, you say
What is the average believer or young pastor supposed to take away from the TGC announcement? They say:
Was he right or wrong to be doing what he is doing? Can we really tell what the TGC view is of this? Is this transparent? Does it help those who are unsure or unlearned?
I don’t think there needs to be a public lynching, but there does need to be clarity. This isn’t it.
It looks like the “centered and bounded” set really did have boundaries.yeah, even Christianity Today has boundaries. So what?
What is the average believer or young pastor supposed to take away from the TGC announcement? They say:
We acknowledge that James feels called of God into these spheres, and we wish him well in his far-reaching endeavors, and many years of ministry both faithful and fruitful.
Was he right or wrong to be doing what he is doing? Can we really tell what the TGC view is of this? Is this transparent? Does it help those who are unsure or unlearned?
I don’t think there needs to be a public lynching, but there does need to be clarity. This isn’t it.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
[Don Johnson] Shane, you saypatience Don, I have a feeling there will be a lot of discussion about the wisdom of the TD Jakes thing, after the TD Jakes thing. If I were Justin Taylor or Kevin DeYoung, I’d wait to talk about it unti there was concrete evidence that concerns were valid. Which they are.It looks like the “centered and bounded” set really did have boundaries.yeah, even Christianity Today has boundaries. So what?
What is the average believer or young pastor supposed to take away from the TGC announcement? They say:
We acknowledge that James feels called of God into these spheres, and we wish him well in his far-reaching endeavors, and many years of ministry both faithful and fruitful.
Was he right or wrong to be doing what he is doing? Can we really tell what the TGC view is of this? Is this transparent? Does it help those who are unsure or unlearned?
I don’t think there needs to be a public lynching, but there does need to be clarity. This isn’t it.
Don: I don’t think there needs to be a public lynching, but there does need to be clarity. This isn’t it.
Yep, that’s typical New Evangelical behaviour.
Sure, teach people to recognize counterfeits by giving them the real McCoy dollar bill.
But please don’t be negative and start dealing with counterfeits and the like. The last thing you wanna do is to catch the crook when he shows up with a counterfeit bill! No sirree!
Just wish him a good day, give him the change, and don’t rock the boat.
Yep, that’s typical New Evangelical behaviour.
Sure, teach people to recognize counterfeits by giving them the real McCoy dollar bill.
But please don’t be negative and start dealing with counterfeits and the like. The last thing you wanna do is to catch the crook when he shows up with a counterfeit bill! No sirree!
Just wish him a good day, give him the change, and don’t rock the boat.
Shane, did you really mean that? You’d wait to talk about it until there was concrete evidence that concerns were valid? Anyabwile thought there was enough concrete evidence. Lots of people have thought so.
But the question Don raises is not about the wisdom of the Jakes thing. That’s evident, and lots of people have talked about it. The real question is this: is this separation? Is this TGC drawing a line in the sand and saying, “Nope, can’t do that,” and Macdonald saying, “OK, I’ll resign,” or is there something else going on here? If the former, however nicely it is being done (and it should be done as kindly as possible), it is separation / dis-fellowshipping / withdrawing / whatever you want to call it.
If not, then this has no larger significance as far as conservative evangelicalism. They are still non-separatist. He didn’t have to resign, and they would be willing to remain in full fellowship with invitations to people like Jakes. In effect, until we’re told that this parting of the ways is related to Jakes, we have no reason to assume that TGC is ready to draw a line in the sand.
Now, I’m about 95% certain it IS the former, and if it is, that’s excellent. Once you draw a line in the sand to please the Lord, it becomes easier to draw more lines to please Him, easier and more important to begin to study out exactly where He wants you to draw them. So that’s wonderful, if that is what has happened.
But until you actually acknowledge that “line drawing” is what is happening, you still fall foul of the concern that Thabiti Anyabwile himself expressed — tacit endorsement of error. It would be pretty easy to find charitable words that indicate we’re no longer entirely on the same page in some aspects of his ministry.
So I see this as almost certainly a very positive step for TGC, but its impact beyond TGC itself is very limited until they actually say they’ve taken a step.
But the question Don raises is not about the wisdom of the Jakes thing. That’s evident, and lots of people have talked about it. The real question is this: is this separation? Is this TGC drawing a line in the sand and saying, “Nope, can’t do that,” and Macdonald saying, “OK, I’ll resign,” or is there something else going on here? If the former, however nicely it is being done (and it should be done as kindly as possible), it is separation / dis-fellowshipping / withdrawing / whatever you want to call it.
If not, then this has no larger significance as far as conservative evangelicalism. They are still non-separatist. He didn’t have to resign, and they would be willing to remain in full fellowship with invitations to people like Jakes. In effect, until we’re told that this parting of the ways is related to Jakes, we have no reason to assume that TGC is ready to draw a line in the sand.
Now, I’m about 95% certain it IS the former, and if it is, that’s excellent. Once you draw a line in the sand to please the Lord, it becomes easier to draw more lines to please Him, easier and more important to begin to study out exactly where He wants you to draw them. So that’s wonderful, if that is what has happened.
But until you actually acknowledge that “line drawing” is what is happening, you still fall foul of the concern that Thabiti Anyabwile himself expressed — tacit endorsement of error. It would be pretty easy to find charitable words that indicate we’re no longer entirely on the same page in some aspects of his ministry.
So I see this as almost certainly a very positive step for TGC, but its impact beyond TGC itself is very limited until they actually say they’ve taken a step.
JG, sure. Thabiti and others were beating the drum a long time ago. I’m just saying if Don is waiting for some kind of further explanation or discussion within/among TGC, he shouldn’t expect it until after Elephant Room 2. If I were a blogger, I’d wait to comment just because it would be a lot more clarifying after the actual broadcast.
I am not confident of a “further explanation” which provides the kind of clarity people hope for. As to assumptions, while we can be concerned about rightness or wrongness and concrete evidence (I point to JG’s comments as a demonstration that there is more evidence that is being considered by some) we must, also, on the other end, not conclude that it was due to the “centered and bounded” effect since that was not revealed. So if we are considering being concerned about assumptions, that one should be included.
MacDonald revealed what and why he felt he needed to resign but TGC did not yet reveal their organizational position. Again I am not confident they will have a formal response beyond their pat on the back and best wishes and will, instead, allow certain members to voice their independent views. I hope there is a consensus on the matter and is expressed and if so, I hope it is clear and precise.
MacDonald revealed what and why he felt he needed to resign but TGC did not yet reveal their organizational position. Again I am not confident they will have a formal response beyond their pat on the back and best wishes and will, instead, allow certain members to voice their independent views. I hope there is a consensus on the matter and is expressed and if so, I hope it is clear and precise.
Discussion