What's wrong with Tim Tebow?
- 15 views
[Bert Baker] Actually,the Ten Commandments are to be observed today. All of them. The one referring to the Sabbath actually refers to our salvation experience.Very cool! So, as a follow up question (not a challenge: just a question), Is there a specific day on which we are to observe the Sabbath? Or is our entire life as a believer to be lived in Sabbath holiness?
Heb. 4 has a good explanation of this as it refers back to the promised land which is an example of our salvation experience.
One more question. If our lives are to be lived as a daily holy Sabbath, are the OT Sabbath law/restrictions applicable to our NT Sabbath observance?
Getting sharper every day: Thank You!!
I believe our entire lives are to be lived as a sabbath. The word used for this is REST. We enter in His REST. That means sabbath.
I do think, however due to the NT salvation life, we are to be in concert with the ministry as understood by the NT Church. I hope that makes sense.
We mainly worship corporately on Sunday because of our Resurrected Lord, but because we are the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit, we should look at
every day as holy. I am not saying I always live up to that, but I do know better.
Writing is not my thing, I can take forever verbally answering questions, but my writing makes me impatient. I hope I explain myself somewhat okay.
Thanks. Ex. 15:2
I was raised in a totally secular home, with no religious influence. Before the Lord drew me to Hmself, I was on a path toward conversion to Conservative Judaism. The sabbath always began at sundown Friday evening. While I now worship on Sunday, I find that mental and spiritual preparation beginning on Saturday afternoon or evening benefits my walk with the Lord.
In the Exodus and Deuteronomy passages dealing with the Sabbath commandment, there are two reasons given for celebrating Sabbath.
First, there is the principle of rest and reflection. Genesis says that God “sabbathed” on the seventh day. He was not tired and needing of rest, but it was a time to reflect upont the work He had done. Taking a day a week to reflect upon our work and the work of God is spiritually very beneficial.
Second, there is the principle of redemption. The Jewish people were exhorted to remember that they were slaves in Egypy, and that God had delivered them. Sabbath is an opportunity to refect upon the great redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
We have chosen to try to make Sunday a special day of worship, fellowship, and reflection.
As far as working on Sunday, there are some people who must work then. I am thankful that law enforcement, fire departments, public utility companies, and medical personnel are at their jobs. In visiting with a local Orthodox rabbi, he said that jobs necessary to maintain and protect life are permissible on the Sabbath.
In the Exodus and Deuteronomy passages dealing with the Sabbath commandment, there are two reasons given for celebrating Sabbath.
First, there is the principle of rest and reflection. Genesis says that God “sabbathed” on the seventh day. He was not tired and needing of rest, but it was a time to reflect upont the work He had done. Taking a day a week to reflect upon our work and the work of God is spiritually very beneficial.
Second, there is the principle of redemption. The Jewish people were exhorted to remember that they were slaves in Egypy, and that God had delivered them. Sabbath is an opportunity to refect upon the great redemptive work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
We have chosen to try to make Sunday a special day of worship, fellowship, and reflection.
As far as working on Sunday, there are some people who must work then. I am thankful that law enforcement, fire departments, public utility companies, and medical personnel are at their jobs. In visiting with a local Orthodox rabbi, he said that jobs necessary to maintain and protect life are permissible on the Sabbath.
Dick Dayton
I heard Michael Medved talk about the Sabbath many years ago. His summarized comments were that from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday, nothing happened in his home that did not have to do with the worship of Jehovah. I remember thinking at the time “Oh, that we as Christians were as dedicated to our faith as he is to his.”
But, the genesis of this line of the thread was an observation (implication?) that a person working on the Lord’s Day could not be a good testimony for Christ. (If I have read too much into the comment, please let me know.)
So my question is this: are we as believers today required to observe the OT Sabbath day restrictions (such as not working on Sunday) when we observe the NT Lord’s Day?
I am not arguing for or against. I am just asking the question.
Time for lunch. Somebody put some more wood on the fire. :-))
But, the genesis of this line of the thread was an observation (implication?) that a person working on the Lord’s Day could not be a good testimony for Christ. (If I have read too much into the comment, please let me know.)
So my question is this: are we as believers today required to observe the OT Sabbath day restrictions (such as not working on Sunday) when we observe the NT Lord’s Day?
I am not arguing for or against. I am just asking the question.
Time for lunch. Somebody put some more wood on the fire. :-))
I guess I never saw how a professional athlete being an outspoken Christian who constantly gives glory to God in both word and deed could be a negative, but thanks Job and Lee for setting me straight!
Lee, are you seriously comparing Tebow to Carrie Prejean? Please tell me that was a joke! Do you follow football at all?
Lee, are you seriously comparing Tebow to Carrie Prejean? Please tell me that was a joke! Do you follow football at all?
-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
[Greg Long] I guess I never saw how a professional athlete being an outspoken Christian who constantly gives glory to God in both word and deed could be a negative, but thanks Job and Lee for setting me straight!The comparison between Tebow and Prejean was definitely a spoof. I mean, what kind of honest comparison can you actually make between a blonde babe in a bikini who stutters her opposition to gay marriage and a mid-tier quarterback who needs a shave?
Lee, are you seriously comparing Tebow to Carrie Prejean? Please tell me that was a joke! Do you follow football at all?
That he, as was she, will likely be granted influence in some evangelical circles based on celebrity more than substance was just an observation.
Don’t get me wrong. Tebow seems like a really good kid and I hope he does well in every endeavor he undertakes. I hope he remains unwavering in his faith, and I hope he continues to produce well enough on the field to shut up all those imbecilic talking heads. I just find it amusing that in many of our circles when some guy or gal in the entertainment industry (and the NFL is entertainment first) who does some Christian-speak in public, then he/she instantly gains more credibility and influence than many much more qualified and proven individuals primarily because they are celebrities of some caliber. And when they go “poof” (as Prejean seems to have done) we don’t learn anything, we just find the next celebrity du jour. Obviously, my cynicism knows no bounds.
Lee
[Lee][Greg Long]… he, as was she, will likely be granted influence in some evangelical circles based on celebrity more than substance was just an observation.As I have said before, I am not a prophet, nor the son of a prophet. But I would be very surprised to see Tebow go “poof”. The substance is there. He is already a veteran missionary. (OK, he’s an MK.) But even during his time at UF he spent a lot of time in real live, real deal ministry, in the US and abroad. He is not a spiritual lightweight. He has already had more ministry experience at this stage in his life than (dare I say) any of us had at the same age. And that does not count the minimum once-a-week opportunity he has to demonstrate his faith, and then effectively defend his actions to a nation of skeptics. The only difference is that nobody knows who I am: EVERYBODY knows who Tim Tebow is - and who his Lord is.
::SNIP::
I just find it amusing that in many of our circles when some guy or gal in the entertainment industry (and the NFL is entertainment first) who does some Christian-speak in public, then he/she instantly gains more credibility and influence than many much more qualified and proven individuals primarily because they are celebrities of some caliber. And when they go “poof” (as Prejean seems to have done) we don’t learn anything, we just find the next celebrity du jour. Obviously, my cynicism knows no bounds.
He walks the walk. He makes use of the platform available to him to proclaim the Gospel. Be honest: how many of us, given the same opportunities, would have the presence of mind to make full use of those opportunities, boldly proclaiming the Gospel… at the age of 20? If he is invited to bigger venues in the future based on his celebrity, and his celebrity is based on his unabashed testimony for Christ at every opportunity, um… is that a problem for anybody?
Time to stoke the campfire. I love the smell of a campfire on a crisp, clear evening!
After just getting caught up on this thread, I will admit that what I thought was starting out as a fun game of good-natured ribbing about favorite players and teams growing out of the ever-lasting Tebow debate has left me discouraged. It seems like, in the eyes of some, indeed cynicism does know no bounds and Tebow is providing just another in a long line of opportunities to bash down a fellow brother who dare stand out a bit too much and is thus suspect of all kinds of potential bad motives, representative of all kinds of theological and philosophical ills and more evidence of the death spiral that is evangelicalism and American culture. Twice in the last week now, I’ve seen someone provide the coup d’ grace of slams — if he was a real Christian, he would be in church on Sunday at 10:00 instead of preparing for a football game. I won’t even dignify such a retort with any additional acknowledgement.
While in Florida, it was my privilege to know and have in my weekly Bible study some of the Tebow family’s best friends. Before Tim was ‘all that’, they knew him and his parents. The homeschooled kid who was a faithful member of First Baptist Church of Jacksonville — one of the finest, most fundamental and doctrinally sound churches in the southeast wasn’t a famous celebrity to them, he was “Timmy/Tim”. I heard of their annual family missions trips and personal evangelism and then the burgeoning fame of their football phenomenon son. I learned of what they did to keep him grounded and what he did to use his growing notoriety for the Lord’s glory. I watched him turn down an award from asmut magazine who sought to honor him for his skill and get roundly criticized for his arrogant piety. That was just the beginning of what is now at full bloom.
So now I just find it incomprehensible that even some in his spiritual family would question his righteousness, predict his future journey into irrelevance and roll their eyes at his youthful-but-determined zeal. I truly do not understand why someone would seek to join those who are clearly haters of Tim for no better reason than that he is a believer (something that even the secular media acknowledges is true for many) in their cynical and snide assessment of his genuineness and priorities. He may never be a Marino or Manning or Rodgers on the gridiron, but he has already been used by God to prick the hearts of many with his personal commitment to his faith in Jesus Christ and perhaps more than any of his critics will ever know. I’m drawn to watching his journey not because of his team (I’m a life-long KC Chiefs fan — arch-enemies of the Broncos), but because like the owner of Chick-fil-A and Kirk Cameron of Hollywood Fame and even Congresswoman Michelle Bachman, I find myself excited that some are chosen by God, to give testimony for a time at least, that God’s Word is True and fallen man can still aspire to Godliness and we are called to be Salt and Light no matter what vocation we embrace with our skills. My hope is that they can withstand the withering scrutiny of public attention and the subtle dangers of fame and in doing so glorify God by reflecting him wherever they are and whatever they are doing. Perfect? No. Sincere? I pray so. Challenging? Without a doubt.
For another secular perspective, I saw this good article:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/12/07/what-if-tim-tebow-were-muslim/
While in Florida, it was my privilege to know and have in my weekly Bible study some of the Tebow family’s best friends. Before Tim was ‘all that’, they knew him and his parents. The homeschooled kid who was a faithful member of First Baptist Church of Jacksonville — one of the finest, most fundamental and doctrinally sound churches in the southeast wasn’t a famous celebrity to them, he was “Timmy/Tim”. I heard of their annual family missions trips and personal evangelism and then the burgeoning fame of their football phenomenon son. I learned of what they did to keep him grounded and what he did to use his growing notoriety for the Lord’s glory. I watched him turn down an award from asmut magazine who sought to honor him for his skill and get roundly criticized for his arrogant piety. That was just the beginning of what is now at full bloom.
So now I just find it incomprehensible that even some in his spiritual family would question his righteousness, predict his future journey into irrelevance and roll their eyes at his youthful-but-determined zeal. I truly do not understand why someone would seek to join those who are clearly haters of Tim for no better reason than that he is a believer (something that even the secular media acknowledges is true for many) in their cynical and snide assessment of his genuineness and priorities. He may never be a Marino or Manning or Rodgers on the gridiron, but he has already been used by God to prick the hearts of many with his personal commitment to his faith in Jesus Christ and perhaps more than any of his critics will ever know. I’m drawn to watching his journey not because of his team (I’m a life-long KC Chiefs fan — arch-enemies of the Broncos), but because like the owner of Chick-fil-A and Kirk Cameron of Hollywood Fame and even Congresswoman Michelle Bachman, I find myself excited that some are chosen by God, to give testimony for a time at least, that God’s Word is True and fallen man can still aspire to Godliness and we are called to be Salt and Light no matter what vocation we embrace with our skills. My hope is that they can withstand the withering scrutiny of public attention and the subtle dangers of fame and in doing so glorify God by reflecting him wherever they are and whatever they are doing. Perfect? No. Sincere? I pray so. Challenging? Without a doubt.
For another secular perspective, I saw this good article:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/12/07/what-if-tim-tebow-were-muslim/
Dan Burrell Cornelius, NC Visit my Blog "Whirled Views" @ www.danburrell.com
I’m looking for the LIKE button. Has anyone seen the LIKE button?
Woah! I need some coffee. Somebody build up the campfire, I’ll get the water for the coffee.
Thank you, one and all, for sharpening me this week.
Woah! I need some coffee. Somebody build up the campfire, I’ll get the water for the coffee.
Thank you, one and all, for sharpening me this week.
There is a “Like” button at the bottom of each post next to the star.
Well said, Dan. Tim Tebow does not warrant the cynicism. His actions are not contradictory.
Tebow is providing just another in a long line of opportunities to bash down a fellow brother who dare stand out a bit too much and is thus suspect of all kinds of potential bad motives, representative of all kinds of theological and philosophical ills and more evidence of the death spiral that is evangelicalism and American culture.Did that happen on this discussion thread? If so, I missed it.
if he was a real Christian, he would be in church on Sunday at 10:00 instead of preparing for a football game.Did someone on this thread say that? If so, I missed that too.
So now I just find it incomprehensible that even some in his spiritual family would question his righteousness,
Did I miss that in this thread as well?
like the owner of Chick-fil-ANow, we’re getting back to the meat and potatoes of the turn in this discussion. The owner of that particular restaurant has determined he shouldn’t be open on Sundays, right? I haven’t seen (although admit I may have missed it) anyone here question Tebow’s Christianity, spirituality, or righteousness.
In another discussion thread some were quick to point out that Saddleback should not cancel one weekend of church in order to do acts of service in their community. Yet, when the topic of skipping church on a weekly basis (not just once in a blue moon) for football comes up, people are quick to defend Tebow. In light of those seemingly contradictory responses, it seems like a valid discussion to have even though Tebow is a really great guy who boldly proclaims his faith. Some probably think Rick Warren is a really great guy who boldly proclaims his faith, yet he gets criticized for skipping church for fewer Sundays than Christian football players and their Christian fans do.
[Susan R] There is a “Like” button at the bottom of each post next to the star.OH! There it is!!
All I needed was some good, strong campfire coffee, and direction from someone who is actually paying attention! :-)
Thank you very much!
This is an interesting discussion. Giving Tebow a break but not Warren is indeed inconsistent. But really, I have not problem with Tebow playing football on Sunday. People have historically had to work on Sunday and that is just life. Football is what he does and it is played on Sunday. Compare him missing 16 Sundays a year to what people in other occupations have had to do historically. Sailors for example might have had to go on a 3 year voyage and never see a church.
[Brenda T]I guess some people just see what they want to see.Tebow is providing just another in a long line of opportunities to bash down a fellow brother who dare stand out a bit too much and is thus suspect of all kinds of potential bad motives, representative of all kinds of theological and philosophical ills and more evidence of the death spiral that is evangelicalism and American culture.Did that happen on this discussion thread? If so, I missed it.if he was a real Christian, he would be in church on Sunday at 10:00 instead of preparing for a football game.Did someone on this thread say that? If so, I missed that too.So now I just find it incomprehensible that even some in his spiritual family would question his righteousness,
Did I miss that in this thread as well?
…
Lee
Discussion