Should Congregations Vote to Discipline?

Several weeks ago a pastor called, heartbroken and wondering what to do next. The church he pastored (Southern Baptist) had voted down a church discipline matter. The facts were plain: a man in the church had been privately confronted multiple times in accordance to Jesus’ words in Matthew 18, but had only become more rude and more arrogant toward those calling him to repentance. He interrupted the preaching, held secret meetings and slandered those in leadership. Yet, when the matter was brought to the congregation as instructed in Matthew 18:17, the majority of those present voted against calling on the man to repent.

The pastor, who had been at the church less than a year, resigned soon after the vote. The vote proved to him that the majority of church members distrusted the leaders and himself, and did not want to call the individual to repentance. In fact, the man who was exonerated by vote enjoyed a reputation in the church as a significant leader in his own right, thus explaining why they trusted him more than their new pastor. The pastor believed the majority did not want to follow him or the Bible, and now, along with a group of ex-members, has agreed to their request to plant a new church.

What went right

If the pastor was more politically-minded than shepherding-minded he might have encouraged others to simply ignore the rude behaviors and arrogance of the man than privately confront him. But the pastor knew that Jesus’ teaching requires private confrontation, and when a matter of sin is certain and an individual remains impenitent then the matter is to be brought to the church (Matthew 18:15-16). The facts of the situation show that he and others in the church were doing right by being faithful to the church member and the Lord.

What went wrong

When it came to their fellow member and the charge of sin, the members of the church were being asked to act as this man’s judge and jury. Their vote would reveal if they believed him guilty or innocent of the accusation of sin, and either result in an end of the discipline, or a continuation of it. As judges and juries are inclined to do in this world, they judged wrongly. They exonerated a sinning member while losing a pastor who was willing to take a confrontational stand on an issue of sin and righteousness.

Does Matthew 18 teach that the congregation has authority?

Those who believe that the congregation should vote in church discipline cases (a popular practice called congregationalism) insist the entire church is the final authority in judging cases of church discipline because the two phrases in Matthew 18:17, “tell it to the church” and “if he refuses to listen even to the church.”

From these words two conclusions are drawn. First, Matthew 18:15-17 shows an ascending authority from one-to-one confrontation (v. 15) to small group confrontation (v. 16) that ends with church confrontation (v. 17). Therefore, the congregation has the greatest authority. The second claim is that the unrepentant offender can be put out of the church only after the entire church has been involved. In other words, no one can be put out of the church by only a few in the church, such as the leaders. Therefore, the only rightful authority in excommunication is the entire church.

But a careful reading of Matthew 18:17 shows that the church is not called to a higher authority—that is, to judge the person’s guilt or innocence. Instead, the Lord calls the church to submit to the prior judgment of the two or three witnesses since they have “established the evidence” (v. 16). Nowhere in Matthew 18 does Jesus ask the congregation to approve or disapprove on the evidence of the witnesses and thereby on the guilt and innocence of the offender. Rather, He commands the church members to respond to the certain evidence of the witnesses by submissively confronting the unrepentant member.

The Lord Himself placed the determinative authority of church discipline in the judgment of the two or three. He tasks them, and not the church, with the responsibility to prove unrepentant sin in Matthew 18:16. In the passage, Jesus further explains that He and the Father determine the guilt or innocence in concert with the two or three witnesses before the congregation ever hears it:

If two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them. (Matt. 18:19–20).

The “two or three” refer back to the agreement of the “two or three witnesses” of verse 16. God the Father and God the Son affirm and defend the work of the two or three witnesses in establishing the factuality of impenitence. Since the first two persons of the Godhead affirm the evidence of the witnesses, what need is there for a church to vote and rule on that which the first two persons of the Trinity have already ratified? Jesus did not say, “If the church agrees about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven,” but “If two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.” Thus He exalts the judgment of the witnesses so that the church may hear the witnesses’ testimony as exactly reflecting His own. Jesus did not command the church to establish any facts or to rule or judge on the testimony of the witnesses. The Son of God gave this responsibility to the two or three witnesses alone.

Creating Further Sin

Sadly, men’s ways can get involved in these matters and really make a mess of things. For example, congregational voting in the case of an unrepentant member could create a serious breach of faith with Christ. What if a church decides to discipline out an impenitent member by vote, but some in the church vote not to remove him? Those who vote not to remove the unrepentant member have sinned against the Lord by establishing their own verdict of innocence that opposes what the Lord already ratified (Matt. 18:20). In such a case they have sinned against the Father’s established judgment (Matt. 18:18–19), Jesus’ established evidence (Matt. 18:20), their fellow church members (1 Cor. 1:10), and the two or three witnesses who went through the difficult labor of establishing the evidence (Matt. 18:16). Or, in the case referred to above, the majority of members simply vote contrary to the evidence and annul the discipline process. Based on Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 18, they now need to be called to repentance for their sinful vote, not just privately, but before the whole church.

What God Does Want the Church to Do

The difficult ministry in church discipline is not holding a church vote but rather ensuring that the evidence of hardened and unrepentant sin is “true and certain” (Deut. 17:5). That difficulty is followed by another – telling the congregation to fulfill its obligation to the erring member. That congregational obligation is enjoined upon the members to go and tell the impenitent member to repent of the sins they were told about – the sins announced to the congregation that were established as factual.

Like the individual of Mat. 18:15 and the witnesses of Mat. 18:16, the members of the congregation should go and speak to the member, asking him to repent. Jesus teaches the church that if he “will not listen” he is to be put out (v. 17). “Listen” in verse 17 means the same thing as it does in verses 15 and 16. It is the unrepentant man “personally hearing and turning” from his sin. The congregation is not called by Jesus to be the man’s judge and jury, but, as brothers and sisters in Christ, they are to go and try to reclaim a lost sheep (Matthew 18:12–14).

Most of Matthew 18:16 blends Deuteronomy 17:6 and Deuteronomy 19:15, showing that our Lord expects the two or three witnesses to understand their role in light of Old Testament teaching. In those texts, the Old Testament Israelite people were commanded to put to death anyone convicted by only two or three witnesses for sins such as idolatry or homicide. It was not the people’s responsibility to vote on whether the witnesses had performed due diligence and full discovery in establishing the factuality of the accusations. God Himself required the witnesses to do that hard work in submission to local judges (Deuteronomy 16:18), just as Christ tells New Testament witnesses in the New Testament church to “establish the evidence,” who then submit their evidence to the church’s elders.

Having a congregation vote on matters of sin and righteousness is a recipe for disaster. The complexities of people’s sins are intricate and thorny matters that defy public meetings. Church members simply don’t have the heart or time to investigate such matters thoroughly before rendering a judgment, nor do they often have the Christian maturity to do so. This is why witnesses must establish the facts of impenitence under the care of qualified leaders for they are acting to defend the holiness of Christ and His purifying power in the congregation. They establish the facts so we don’t have to.

You see, if we make voting decisions on intricate matters without the enormous amount of effort that Jesus expects of the two or three witnesses we end up practicing the sin of presumption on other people’s guilt and innocence. We also imply that the two or three witnesses were unfaithful to Christ because we, their fellow church members, must approve or disapprove their findings with our vote. In part that is why so few congregational churches practice church discipline—voting makes the process tangled, convoluted, and political.

The role of church leaders

Jesus doesn’t refer to church leadership in Matthew 18, but that doesn’t mean that church discipline should be decided on by just any two or three people in the church. Beginning in Matthew and finishing in Revelation, Jesus reveals the church in “progressive revelation.” What is only sketched out briefly in Matthew 18 is filled in by Acts and the New Testament letters. The apostolic letters always work within the framework of Jesus’ teaching, and their teaching on discipline is no different. Later New Testament passages fully rely upon Matthew 18 but add the details of elder involvement (e.g., 1 Tim. 5:19–22, Titus 1:5–16, 1 Thess. 5:12–14, 3 John 10). At the time of Jesus’ teaching on the church in Matthew 18 no one but Him even knew what a local church was. So He doesn’t give us the details of church leadership in His first teaching on it, but instead gives us the essentials of how to restore a wandering Christian, and how to put an unrepentant person out of His church. Jesus thought it best to leave to the epistles to explain the role of leaders in the process.

In the epistles the elders are called by Christ to oversee and shepherd the flock (1 Tim. 3:1, 1 Tim. 5:17, 1 Peter 5:1), so the witnesses must meet with one or more elders to inform them of the situation. Prior to telling the church of someone’s sin, the elders will look into the matter themselves according to the nature of the situation and the skill of the witnesses. Their role requires them to make certain of impartial evidence and proper confrontation as described by the Lord in Matthew 18 and other New Testament passages.

Conclusion

Jesus doesn’t ask for a vote in Matthew 18 because in matters of sin and righteousness voting is worthless. He doesn’t want you be your brother’s judge and jury but to be involved in the godly work of restoring him as a wandering sheep. Actually, Jesus is merciful to involve you in the restoration process by telling you to go and confront your errant brother. He doesn’t need or want your vote nor is Jesus concerned with the “voice of the congregation.” Instead, His voice tells us to call our wandering brother to repentance. It isn’t obedient to answer Him, “we’ll vote on it.”

Discussion

[Aaron Blumer] He is writing to the body and telling them it’s their job to select those who are “wise enough” to judge. Even when a congregation selects someone to do a job on their behalf, they have to have authority before they can delegate it. The judge(s) are authorized by the congregation.
Jeff and I discussed this issue back in post 67, 70-71. Jeff agreed with the translation in post 82. The issue settled there was that the congregation is not authorized to select one person to solve the matter. One man, who is wise enough to render a summary judgment, is being asked to make a binding decision on the matter and be done with it.

Perhaps you would like to interact with those posts and the exegetical observations in them and see if you still feel the same way. The exegetical issue mostly has to do with the word “kathizete” at the end of v. 4 – is it imperative, or indicative?

[Chip Van Emmerik] re: 1 Cor 6.

Maybe I’m missing something, but I’m not seeing this as church business per se. I have always understood chap 5 to be church business. Chapter 6 is another, separate problem in the church that is bringing disrepute to the name of Christ - these petty squabbles. Here, I see Paul reprimanding individuals saying something like you should be able to find someone from among you to judge righteously in your dispute without taking silly things out into the world making Christ look foolish in your representation of Him.
Agreed.

Ted,

I kind of thought this was where you were headed. And I respond like Aaron. I wonder what the problem is? Congregational government does not mean that a church votes on everything that takes place in a church (e.g. who waters the flowers). To me, to say that since there is no instruction here of a congregational meeting, and thus congregationalism is disproved, ammounts to reductionism, as I have said earlier.

In 1. Corinthians 6, persons in the congregation are expected to help those having conflicts with one another. These are personal conflicts. They are not church conflicts. But they are obviously matters that individuals in society may successfully take before a court of law.

How a person is selected to be a mediator between two conflicting Christians in the same church is not stated. Paul simply insists that members of the church should be helping settle the personal issues, rather than Christians taking each other to a secular court.

If two people are having a problem with each other, it isn’t hard to find a third person to mediate. The two adversaries don’t necessarily have to ask for a congregational meeting. They don’t have to have a meeting with the elders, or even with one elder. They may do one or all three. But in no case would it be required. And in no case would it be required that an elder select or even OK a mediator. It is pretty simple, actually: would either of these two guys like to have their ugly stories told out in front of the whole church? Or in front of all the elders? I don’t think so.

Nothing said in this passage specifically about congregational rule. Nothing said specifically about Elder rule. For me, a big zero as far as the discussion is concerned.

Jeff Brown

[Jeff Brown]

In 1. Corinthians 6, persons in the congregation are expected to help those having conflicts with one another. These are personal conflicts. They are not church conflicts. But they are obviously matters that individuals in society may successfully take before a court of law.

How a person is selected to be a mediator between two conflicting Christians in the same church is not stated. Paul simply insists that members of the church should be helping settle the personal issues, rather than Christians taking each other to a secular court.

If two people are having a problem with each other, it isn’t hard to find a third person to mediate. The two adversaries don’t necessarily have to ask for a congregational meeting. They don’t have to have a meeting with the elders, or even with one elder. They may do one or all three. But in no case would it be required. And in no case would it be required that an elder select or even OK a mediator. It is pretty simple, actually: would either of these two guys like to have their ugly stories told out in front of the whole church? Or in front of all the elders? I don’t think so.
Having been through this in a church, I can say from at least one experience that the hard part is not finding qualified or willing people to help judge — it’s getting people to 1. Believe this is something the church should handle, and 2. Consider the church qualified to judge and to submit to the judgment, exactly what Paul was writing about. When we went through this, one party left the church largely over it NOT being dealt with in the church, and then when we did try to bring them together with witnesses willing to help, the other party left when we DID want to deal with it. Whether it was the pastor or regular members involved was not the issue with either party. One thought the church should handle it, and it unfortunately wasn’t handled properly at that time, and the other thought the church should stay out of it.

I agree with Jeff here. I can’t see where this passage requires elders at all (though they are certainly not excluded).

Dave Barnhart

[Jeff Brown] Ted,

I kind of thought this was where you were headed. And I respond like Aaron. I wonder what the problem is? Congregational government does not mean that a church votes on everything that takes place in a church (e.g. who waters the flowers). To me, to say that since there is no instruction here of a congregational meeting, and thus congregationalism is disproved, ammounts to reductionism, as I have said earlier.

In 1. Corinthians 6, persons in the congregation are expected to help those having conflicts with one another. These are personal conflicts. They are not church conflicts. But they are obviously matters that individuals in society may successfully take before a court of law.

How a person is selected to be a mediator between two conflicting Christians in the same church is not stated. Paul simply insists that members of the church should be helping settle the personal issues, rather than Christians taking each other to a secular court.

If two people are having a problem with each other, it isn’t hard to find a third person to mediate. The two adversaries don’t necessarily have to ask for a congregational meeting. They don’t have to have a meeting with the elders, or even with one elder. They may do one or all three. But in no case would it be required. And in no case would it be required that an elder select or even OK a mediator. It is pretty simple, actually: would either of these two guys like to have their ugly stories told out in front of the whole church? Or in front of all the elders? I don’t think so.

Nothing said in this passage specifically about congregational rule. Nothing said specifically about Elder rule. For me, a big zero as far as the discussion is concerned.
I don’t blame you for wanting to disassociate 1 Cor. 6 from congregationalism.

But as a defender of the doctrine yourself you should at least be aware that other Congregationalists do refer to this passage because they see a logical necessity. Why? Simply because Congregationalists claim the congregation is the highest authority in the church. Or as you wrote earlier in the thread, “the final arbiter.” And here we are in a situation addressed to a congregation, requiring arbitration, in which they are not called upon to be the final arbiter.

Danny Akin writes, “while the church may choose to delegate the responsibility to gifted and qualified persons to handle such matters (and there is no inconsistency within Congregationalism in doing this), ultimately the adjudication of the issue rests on the doorstep of the local congregation as a whole.” (Perspectives on Church Government, 5 View of Church Polity, page 32). Cowen in his book defending Congregationalism says much the same thing, Who Rules the Church, see page 89.

Reductionism implies distortion of the case to make one’s point. I’m just holding your congregational feet to the fire because Paul’s counsel in 1 Cor. 6 is not consistent with congregationalism when v. 5 is interpreted properly. This is the problem for Congregationalists that I’m asking you and Aaron to square up.

For example, you say “Congregational government does not mean that a church votes on everything that takes place in a church (e.g. who waters the flowers).” What Scripture teaches that it votes on anything? In Congregationalism the Congregation does have that authority, i.e., to vote on flowers. If the congregation is meeting together and a motion for who waters the flowers is made, is not the moderator obligated to open it for discussion if another seconds it? Or does the moderator have arbitrary authority over what will and what won’t be discussed? If so the congregation is not the “final arbiter” but the moderator. But you do not believe that.

Or should I better say, “a quorum” has that authority? 15%? 25%? If this is proper, then I applaud R. M. Sprung in post #4 for recognizing congregationalism’s authority actually rests upon itself in its own documents., i.e., by laws. I don’t believe that was Sprung’s point, but he makes the case well, IMO.

Since you believe the congregation receives the ultimate authority from Christ, why is it wrong, biblically, for the congregation to vote on the flowers? Or the color of the carpet? Or anything? Aren’t they serving Christ by using their authority He gave them?

What Akin gets is that congregationalism, for doctrinal consistency sake, demands a congregational response to the 1 Cor. 6 matter, either by congregational appointment of an arbiter, or some other means, all the while insisting the congregation retains ultimate authority. I may disagree with Dr. Akin, but I give him 5 stars for his consistency with 1 Cor. 6.

No problem though if you want to punt on 1 Cor. 6. All I ask then is that you reconsider your assertion that the congregation, in the NT, is the ultimate authority, or final arbiter. Paul did not recognize that authority in 1 Cor. 6, did he? Could the Scripture teach a better way? I believe so, and it is explicit.

Blessings.

[dcbii]
[Jeff Brown]

In 1. Corinthians 6, persons in the congregation are expected to help those having conflicts with one another. These are personal conflicts. They are not church conflicts. But they are obviously matters that individuals in society may successfully take before a court of law.

How a person is selected to be a mediator between two conflicting Christians in the same church is not stated. Paul simply insists that members of the church should be helping settle the personal issues, rather than Christians taking each other to a secular court.

If two people are having a problem with each other, it isn’t hard to find a third person to mediate. The two adversaries don’t necessarily have to ask for a congregational meeting. They don’t have to have a meeting with the elders, or even with one elder. They may do one or all three. But in no case would it be required. And in no case would it be required that an elder select or even OK a mediator. It is pretty simple, actually: would either of these two guys like to have their ugly stories told out in front of the whole church? Or in front of all the elders? I don’t think so.
Having been through this in a church, I can say from at least one experience that the hard part is not finding qualified or willing people to help judge — it’s getting people to 1. Believe this is something the church should handle, and 2. Consider the church qualified to judge and to submit to the judgment, exactly what Paul was writing about. When we went through this, one party left the church largely over it NOT being dealt with in the church, and then when we did try to bring them together with witnesses willing to help, the other party left when we DID want to deal with it. Whether it was the pastor or regular members involved was not the issue with either party. One thought the church should handle it, and it unfortunately wasn’t handled properly at that time, and the other thought the church should stay out of it.

I agree with Jeff here. I can’t see where this passage requires elders at all (though they are certainly not excluded).
Dave, I understand the text as Paul requesting one man, with some wisdom, to involve himself and render a final decision on the case between the two parties (v. 5). His final decision is not up for appeal, which is why congregationalism’s claim to ultimate authority is at odds with 1 Cor. 6. I wholeheartedly agree with you that finding enough people to mediate a case like that is well-nigh impossible. Imagine an entire congregation being asked to be the final authority in a case. I am sorry for the pain of that situation. Scripture teaches a better way.

The Corinthian church didn’t have elders at the time of Paul’s writing. If they had biblically qualified elders then they would have been mature enough to “shepherd the flock of God among them” – to borrow Peter’s phrase.

Ted,

I wonder why you think that if I disagree with Daniel Akin on 1 Cor. 6 Congregationalism has experienced its collapse? Do I have to agree with Daniel Akin’s interpretations of every Scripture to be a consistent congregationalist? Was he the first or is he the foremost author to write on this subject? I have read congregational expositions of church government dating back to the 1500s. Everyone hasn’t walked in lock step for 500 years. Furthermore, I have read a number of Elder Rule authors, including Gene Getz, Alexander Strauch, John MacArthur, and several in Germany you would not know, plus I am reading your book. You all definitely differ on passages that have to do with church government.

Gerald Cowen does not say, by the way, that 1 Cor. 6 portrays congregational judging or appointing of judges. He says that the passage teaches that any member is a potential judge for a temporal dispute between two Christians. Then, he concludes, “If then all members are qualified to judge temporal matters, why are they not qualified to have a voice in the government of the church?” I think his point is well taken, and a perhaps good criticism of Elder Rule, but I simply quote him to show you that he is not in agreement with Daniel Akin.

And forgive us please, if we do not vote on watering flowers. Kyrie eleison!

Jeff Brown