"We, the Board of ABWE and ABWE Administration ask for your forgiveness."
How is it a witch hunt if ABWE confirms the suspicions? Did anyone here say that we should suspect other missionaries of the same thing, or accuse ABWE of intentionally covering up more of this?
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[RPittman] Aaron, your rationalistic reasoning has played you false again. You have NOT eliminated all the possibilities before erroneously posting: “In short, yes, you did say something about their motives and no assuming was involved.” Well, you did wrongly assume. Here are some possibilities:
1. They did it just to be politically correct and to be accepted among the politically correct brethren. (I think Peter did this on more than one occasion. So, if an Apostle is subject to such pressures, why not others?)
2. They buy into (i.e. believe) political correctness and were sincere.
3. Politically correct pressure brought them to respond.
4. They’re being politically correct to gull folks into thinking all is alright.
5. They did what they thought was in the best interests of the ministry.
6. They are naive and are not savvy enough to realize the ramifications.
Well, Aaron, I could go on ad infinitum, but please tell me which of the above I implied. I would really like to know my sinister intentions.
I think you may be forgetting what you what you actually wrote. I reproduce it below. Very few of the items in your list above are compatible with the actual words.
[RPittman] You’re heard of wearing one’s piety on his or her sleeve, this is wearing one’s repentance on one’s sleeve. It’s a great show of political correctness. There are points to consider:
(1) This is certainly not the original board that made the decisions over 30 years ago. Are we responsible for the sins of our predecessors?
(2) The so-called “sins” are poor decisions, lack of foresight, lack of supervision and follow-up, and failure to anticipate the ramifications. Is this sin or just human error and mistakes?
(3) What is the purpose of this public repentance? Is it to avoid the negative fallout from the blogging by the critics? What does it hope to accomplish?
I could go on ad nauseum but I’m sick of this pious business.
In case it’s still not clear, you called it a “great show” and characterized it as a nauseating display of piety.
(I could be wrong but I’m assuming the piety nauseates you because you believe it’s false piety. If you’re actually nauseated by true piety, I’ve completely misunderstood, but really, who could blame me?)
Maybe being free of “rationalistic reasoning” means being able to retroactively resignify words? It’s probably easier to just say “I overstated my point and think better of it now.” No shame in that, really. We all do it sometimes.
In any case, if you’re now denying that ABWE’s statement is some kind of nauseating, politically-correct pretense, I’m happy to hear that!
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
I don’t see any reason at all to reconsider support of ABWE missionaries. Does anybody think that no other mission boards have some “bad apples”? Seems to me that the organization is moving in the right direction and this is reason to be more supportive not less supportive of them and their constituents.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
What is the purpose of this thread and all the blogging? What’s the good coming out of it?
- The purpose of this thread was to report the ABWE confession
- All the blogging?
- If you are referring to the MK blog referenced above: http://bangladeshmksspeak.com/
- It’s clear to me that ABWE would not have begun to act proactively unless she (they) had gone public
- If you are referring to the MK blog referenced above: http://bangladeshmksspeak.com/
[Aaron Blumer] I don’t see any reason at all to reconsider support of ABWE missionaries. Does anybody think that no other mission boards have some “bad apples”? Seems to me that the organization is moving in the right direction and this is reason to be more supportive not less supportive of them and their constituents.As a missionary, too, I would like to add, that if you are going to drop support for something the missionary has not directy done to disqualify from service, strongly consider not dropping until they are planning a furlough time.
[RPittman][Jay C.] How is it a witch hunt if ABWE confirms the suspicions? Did anyone here say that we should suspect other missionaries of the same thing, or accuse ABWE of intentionally covering up more of this?[Jay] I’m not sure what you’re getting at, Don, and while I can’t speak for Anne, I did advise my pastor of the situation (once ABWE confirmed what was going on) and asked if we are supporting ABWE Missionaries at our church too (we don’t). I think that’s prudent….esp. since I’m involved with the Missions program at my church. I have no qualms about reconsidering my support of ABWE in light of this revelation.[emphasis added]Jay, somehow your two statements don’t seem to jive. It seems that you are would consider pulling support of ABWE missionaries who may be very remotely removed from this incident. Is it guilt by association or what? What are you thinking?
Furthermore, my comment was specifically directed toward the application of Proverbs 27:12, not the ABWE situation.
No, it’s not guilt by association - I’m not punishing the missionaries for someone else’s actions. I’m “punishing” - even though that’s not the right term - ABWE for concealing a criminal abuser. I’m saying that I can’t fund ABWE because of what they did. If I had a missionary with ABWE, I’d make it clear to ABWE that the church’s funding is ONLY to be used for the guy we’re supporting and that I will not consider funding any more future missionaries as a result. I say this because I know some missions agencies pool all the church income for all of their missionaries, and some do it line by line - so cash from First Baptist of Constantinople goes only to the missionary that FBConstantinople is supporting.
What ABWE did is so egregious that I don’t think I could fund any of their future missionaries, although I’m willing to back off that stance now that ABWE is contracting with GRACE or the other agency. Now they’re putting things to rights, but I certainly don’t know if I would want to support an agency that had covered in the past.
As for Proverbs - If I know that ABWE covered for a criminal, then I have reason to avoid them. As I just said, I’m willing to reconsider that, but ABWE isn’t going to be my preferred missions agency for a while.
—edit—
So I guess all I’m really saying is that I won’t be planning on funding future ABWE Missionaries until I’m sure that this cannot happen again. Fair enough?
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[RPittman] I strongly agree with what I think you are saying. What is the purpose of this thread and all the blogging?Right, that is what I am objecting to. There is a lot of recrimination, broad generalization, accusations that we’re all guilty because we’re fundamentalists, and, it seemed to me, calls for us to do something about this specific situation.
[RPittman] One of the things in child sexual abuse prevention is keeping vigilant. It’s hard to remain constantly vigilant over a long time. Constant vigilance, however, is best achieved by keeping the threat and need high profile. So, what can you do? Well, what are you doing at your church? Do you have policies and procedures for working with children? Do you have a plan for dealing with allegations?Yes to all of that. One thing that has developed here recently is that the insurance companies are insisting on written abuse policies and good practices. We try to implement all the suggestions we have received from the insurance company and via consultation with other churches.
In some ways, this is a case of the children of the world being wiser than the children of light. Policies like this have been in place for kids sports around here before we even were aware.
All of these things we can do.
But to sit here and use a news item to somehow lay a load of guilt on everyone who reads it and isn’t doing something about this specific situation, well… the mind boggles…
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
I learned about this whole deal b/c of this thread. I have now written two letters to ABWE—I do this because I have personal acquaintances with people involved in this, and it touches the lives of quite a few people I know well.
I’m not sure anyone on this thread is implying that “everyone” should do something or that we should all blame ourselves. If one is in a position to do something, then do so. If not, then don’t. I am and I am :)
You are both saying to remain constantly vigilant. This thread is one way people are reminded to do just that. I have started talking to my girls. Susan’s church had a meeting… .
About all the blogging, who is blogging? The victims are blogging because they want us to hear them and cry for justice with them if we are so led and able. I am trying to reserve judgments until more becomes clear. I can understand why things happened the way they did 22 yrs ago; doesn’t make it right. But another thing I’m trying to say is: if you undestand the nature of s~xual abuse, you will understand why this is coming up again now, and why it is not a bad thing for those involved.
I’m not sure anyone on this thread is implying that “everyone” should do something or that we should all blame ourselves. If one is in a position to do something, then do so. If not, then don’t. I am and I am :)
You are both saying to remain constantly vigilant. This thread is one way people are reminded to do just that. I have started talking to my girls. Susan’s church had a meeting… .
About all the blogging, who is blogging? The victims are blogging because they want us to hear them and cry for justice with them if we are so led and able. I am trying to reserve judgments until more becomes clear. I can understand why things happened the way they did 22 yrs ago; doesn’t make it right. But another thing I’m trying to say is: if you undestand the nature of s~xual abuse, you will understand why this is coming up again now, and why it is not a bad thing for those involved.
[Anne Sokol] I’m not sure anyone on this thread is implying that “everyone” should do something or that we should all blame ourselves. If one is in a position to do something, then do so. If not, then don’t. I am and I am :)Anne, I jumped into this thread in reaction to your post http://sharperiron.org/comment/27553#comment-27553] here .
In addition, http://sharperiron.org/comment/27528#comment-27528] Mike Durning and http://sharperiron.org/comment/27518#comment-27518] Rachel L both seemed to imply similar things.
I am glad you have modified/clarified what seemed to be a call to all of “us” to “do something about it.”
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
[Anne Sokol] http://abwe.org/news/article/abwe-board-decision-regarding-independent-…
On Monday, April 4, the Board of ABWE Ministries, Inc. unanimously decided to appoint an independent, third-party investigator to fully investigate the sexual abuse of missionary children by Donn Ketcham as well as the response to that abuse by the ABWE administration.Very good news!
CanJAmerican - my blog
CanJAmerican - my twitter
whitejumaycan - my youtube
[RPittman] The main idea was to protect the ministry and the innocent parties, which seemed a good idea at the time.It was NOT to protect the innocent parties, it was to protect the guilty party.
CanJAmerican - my blog
CanJAmerican - my twitter
whitejumaycan - my youtube
[RPittman] Jay, you’re probably too young to understand because this incident took place before your time. You had to live in the environment and understand the mindset. ABWE followed the conventional wisdom of the times as far as I can tell. The main idea was to protect the ministry and the innocent parties, which seemed a good idea at the time. On the other hand, you are judging from a different perspective—a different time and place. I don’t think you can really understand the whole situation unless you have lived in both times. Although you may disagree with the original decision, you cannot blame those men for intentionally covering up unless you have some evidence.
To state that ABWE was right and that I don’t know what I’m talking about because I wasn’t alive then is pretty insulting. Shame on you.
I don’t ~care~ about what the culture was then. What ABWE did was wrong and criminal - parties are legally required to disclose criminal activity to the police. Ketcham may have been ‘lucky’ enough to not have the police involved because the incident(s?) took place in a foreign country and was outside of US Authorities’ reach, but the coverup was criminal, and if the past ABWE president was arrested for criminal conspiracy, then I don’t think that would be out of line with the law.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
A not quite random thought….
You can repent “because you got caught” and still mean it.
(It’s a bit like a foxhole conversion, but some people really do convert in foxholes)
Also… on protecting innocent or guilty parties.
In cases like these, what gives privacy to the innocent also tends to give privacy to the guilty. It can be an unintended consequence. But in this case, the point’s kind of moot. ABWE has already acknowledged its own guilt in handling the matter badly. Doesn’t much matter at this point exactly why they did what they did. They’ve acknowledged that it was wrong either way. True, if the intent was to harbor an abuser, that’s worse than having that effect as an unintended consequence. But they’re saying “we were wrong” in no uncertain terms.
Good enough for me.
Perhaps not good enough for those victimized. But that’s between them and ABWE.
You can repent “because you got caught” and still mean it.
(It’s a bit like a foxhole conversion, but some people really do convert in foxholes)
Also… on protecting innocent or guilty parties.
In cases like these, what gives privacy to the innocent also tends to give privacy to the guilty. It can be an unintended consequence. But in this case, the point’s kind of moot. ABWE has already acknowledged its own guilt in handling the matter badly. Doesn’t much matter at this point exactly why they did what they did. They’ve acknowledged that it was wrong either way. True, if the intent was to harbor an abuser, that’s worse than having that effect as an unintended consequence. But they’re saying “we were wrong” in no uncertain terms.
Good enough for me.
Perhaps not good enough for those victimized. But that’s between them and ABWE.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[Jay C.] I don’t ~care~ about what the culture was then. What ABWE did was wrong and criminal - parties are legally required to disclose criminal activity to the police. Ketcham may have been ‘lucky’ enough to not have the police involved because the incident(s?) took place in a foreign country and was outside of US Authorities’ reach, but the coverup was criminal, and if the past ABWE president was arrested for criminal conspiracy, then I don’t think that would be out of line with the law.Actually, Jay, times have changed. If I recall from the original info, ABWE did try to report it to the authorities here but were rebuffed because it happened offshore. To call them criminals is irresponsible. Today authorities in most jurisdictions would not take that approach at all. But it did happen then.
And I think it is possible that some states/jurisdictions may still be behind the times right now.
In any case, I think you are charging ABWE with something they didn’t do.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
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