"We, the Board of ABWE and ABWE Administration ask for your forgiveness."
I guess this is how I see this situation (if you’ve read thru that blog): this situation has been repeatedly undealt with in a righteous way by ABWE on various private levels. Repeatedly. So, in order to up the ante, they went public. This is where we come in. We are here to consider facts, and put pressure, where we may, on this organization, to finally do some right in this situtation and in other situations that are coming to light through this. I think this is where we come in to this equasion in this particular case.
Roland,
I think Greg made my point pretty well. I am not trying to armchair quaterback. But I can’t see how Ketchum’s superiors did not do more to make clear to his pastor and church what he actually did. There is no excuse for that. If I were in a position of leadership of a mission board and someone under me did this, I would think I aided in their sin (and sinned myself) if I did not do everything in my power to see that he was exposed. The only loving thing to do for the victim’s in this case is to see that this man was/is brought to justice. My heart also goes out to Ketchum’s family, but God’s justice has to be held in higher reguard. In my view, to deal with this quietly would be like Joshua sweeping Achon’s sin under the rug for the sake of his family.
You are right that we need to work on prevention. I couldn’t agree more. But dealing with things this quietly is what allowed Bob Gray to molest other kids while staying in a pulpit.
Larry,
I will not claim to be an abuse expert. But one thing, I have found in dealing with people who have been abused is that they think no one believes them. When they finally get the courage and grace to go forward, it does help them a great deal to have people take this seriously. In our own ranks, I think there is something we can do. Many of us at SI have been clear that we believe leaders have mishandled these cases and in some cases outrighted sinned. I personally have decided I will not associate at all with some of these men. I will not join organizations that they are in and I will not go to conferences where they preach. I will not send anyone to their churches and I will be frank as to why I wont sent people there. Outside of that and speaking loudly, there is not alot we can do.
I do also agree with Mike. The good ole boy network is alive and well in our movement. Because of that only certain “sins” are sins. The others? “Well you can’t believe everything disgruntled people say…Doc So and So is a good guy.” For years people said that about Bob Gray and about his deacons and others who just turned a blind eye.
I think Greg made my point pretty well. I am not trying to armchair quaterback. But I can’t see how Ketchum’s superiors did not do more to make clear to his pastor and church what he actually did. There is no excuse for that. If I were in a position of leadership of a mission board and someone under me did this, I would think I aided in their sin (and sinned myself) if I did not do everything in my power to see that he was exposed. The only loving thing to do for the victim’s in this case is to see that this man was/is brought to justice. My heart also goes out to Ketchum’s family, but God’s justice has to be held in higher reguard. In my view, to deal with this quietly would be like Joshua sweeping Achon’s sin under the rug for the sake of his family.
You are right that we need to work on prevention. I couldn’t agree more. But dealing with things this quietly is what allowed Bob Gray to molest other kids while staying in a pulpit.
Larry,
I will not claim to be an abuse expert. But one thing, I have found in dealing with people who have been abused is that they think no one believes them. When they finally get the courage and grace to go forward, it does help them a great deal to have people take this seriously. In our own ranks, I think there is something we can do. Many of us at SI have been clear that we believe leaders have mishandled these cases and in some cases outrighted sinned. I personally have decided I will not associate at all with some of these men. I will not join organizations that they are in and I will not go to conferences where they preach. I will not send anyone to their churches and I will be frank as to why I wont sent people there. Outside of that and speaking loudly, there is not alot we can do.
I do also agree with Mike. The good ole boy network is alive and well in our movement. Because of that only certain “sins” are sins. The others? “Well you can’t believe everything disgruntled people say…Doc So and So is a good guy.” For years people said that about Bob Gray and about his deacons and others who just turned a blind eye.
Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church
Roland,
I find this statement troubling:
3. This has not always been the mindset and thinking in Christian circles. At one time, Christian leadership thought to protect the ministry was the priority. Although we may disagree with their thinking and conclusions, we are wrong to vilify them in their sincere and honest efforts because we have feet of clay too.
God’s glory is more important than one ministry. The leadership of years ago did not understand that. The Bible is pretty clear that we cannot cover our sins. The sin in the camp at ABWE was not dealt with. Dr. Ketchum was not biblically dealt with. Let me put it in unvarnished terms. Covering up crimes (or not fully exposing them) is sin! It is wicked. It is unholy. That is not politically correct, but it is timeless truth.
As far as the Biblical response goes, I think I have. Also, forgiveness is granted when repentense is sought. That does not allow a victim to be bitter. Yet, forgiveness cannot be granted until one seeks it. You and I were not forgiven by Christ until we sought it. He was ready to forgive, as I should be ready to forgive someone who has sinned against me. But I cannot technically grant it until they seek it. You seem to want everyone to let this go without all of those who sinned to repent. But there is another Biblical truth here. Dr. Ketchum is still practicing medicine. He is a pediphile and he is still in a position to where he can do harm. That is a slap in the face to God’s Justice and his holiness.
I find this statement troubling:
3. This has not always been the mindset and thinking in Christian circles. At one time, Christian leadership thought to protect the ministry was the priority. Although we may disagree with their thinking and conclusions, we are wrong to vilify them in their sincere and honest efforts because we have feet of clay too.
God’s glory is more important than one ministry. The leadership of years ago did not understand that. The Bible is pretty clear that we cannot cover our sins. The sin in the camp at ABWE was not dealt with. Dr. Ketchum was not biblically dealt with. Let me put it in unvarnished terms. Covering up crimes (or not fully exposing them) is sin! It is wicked. It is unholy. That is not politically correct, but it is timeless truth.
As far as the Biblical response goes, I think I have. Also, forgiveness is granted when repentense is sought. That does not allow a victim to be bitter. Yet, forgiveness cannot be granted until one seeks it. You and I were not forgiven by Christ until we sought it. He was ready to forgive, as I should be ready to forgive someone who has sinned against me. But I cannot technically grant it until they seek it. You seem to want everyone to let this go without all of those who sinned to repent. But there is another Biblical truth here. Dr. Ketchum is still practicing medicine. He is a pediphile and he is still in a position to where he can do harm. That is a slap in the face to God’s Justice and his holiness.
Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church
i think rpittman is assuming that “professional counselling” equals psychotherapy or something. I want to clarify what I am stating.
In this situation, family members and missionaries were all instructed not to talk about it, not among themselves, no one. So you have teens who are dealing with a devastating stituation who can’t even get counsel from their parents? She was told not to talk to her parents!
Anyway, away from this situation, I think there are times that people can handle this on their own, and times when they need help processing who was responsible, how to deal with anger, etc. It depends on the person.
I have experienced this myself just witnessing birth abuse in the hospitals here. After that incident, I had insomnia, crying jags, rage … every time a friend had a baby. I finally realized that this was effecting my life in a habitual and unhealthy way. I needed help. Once I started asking for help, God “talked” to me one day while I was reading the Bible. He put a stream of reasoned, Biblical thoughts in my mind that helped me see my sinful responses to the sin I witnessed. But that was about 2-3 yrs after the fact.
Having experienced (professional?) Christian people talking to women dealing with heavy sins against their person goes a long, long way. I personally probably wouldn’t counsel an abuse victim myself without getting help for me (the counselor). I probably wouldn’t know where to start. When we work with post-abortive women, we go through a well-written Bible study. I wouldn’t know how to deal with all their issues or even what they are. They might not even realize the way this has effected seemingly unrelated areas of their lives. Experienced people have a better handle on that.
About feminism. i think you need to be careful with what you are imlpying. Are you saying abused women today have problems b/c feminism has groomed them to have struggles after they are abused? Do men not struggle when they are abuse victims? I think any Christian woman should be very bothered by being abused and should have an outlet for getting help emotionally and spiritually. i dont think that’s a (bad) result of the feminist movement. Sure, wallowing around in sinful response is wrong. But getting help to get out isn’t.
In this situation, family members and missionaries were all instructed not to talk about it, not among themselves, no one. So you have teens who are dealing with a devastating stituation who can’t even get counsel from their parents? She was told not to talk to her parents!
Anyway, away from this situation, I think there are times that people can handle this on their own, and times when they need help processing who was responsible, how to deal with anger, etc. It depends on the person.
I have experienced this myself just witnessing birth abuse in the hospitals here. After that incident, I had insomnia, crying jags, rage … every time a friend had a baby. I finally realized that this was effecting my life in a habitual and unhealthy way. I needed help. Once I started asking for help, God “talked” to me one day while I was reading the Bible. He put a stream of reasoned, Biblical thoughts in my mind that helped me see my sinful responses to the sin I witnessed. But that was about 2-3 yrs after the fact.
Having experienced (professional?) Christian people talking to women dealing with heavy sins against their person goes a long, long way. I personally probably wouldn’t counsel an abuse victim myself without getting help for me (the counselor). I probably wouldn’t know where to start. When we work with post-abortive women, we go through a well-written Bible study. I wouldn’t know how to deal with all their issues or even what they are. They might not even realize the way this has effected seemingly unrelated areas of their lives. Experienced people have a better handle on that.
About feminism. i think you need to be careful with what you are imlpying. Are you saying abused women today have problems b/c feminism has groomed them to have struggles after they are abused? Do men not struggle when they are abuse victims? I think any Christian woman should be very bothered by being abused and should have an outlet for getting help emotionally and spiritually. i dont think that’s a (bad) result of the feminist movement. Sure, wallowing around in sinful response is wrong. But getting help to get out isn’t.
[Anne Sokol] I guess this is how I see this situation (if you’ve read thru that blog): this situation has been repeatedly undealt with in a righteous way by ABWE on various private levels. Repeatedly. So, in order to up the ante, they went public. This is where we come in. We are here to consider facts, and put pressure, where we may, on this organization, to finally do some right in this situtation and in other situations that are coming to light through this. I think this is where we come in to this equasion in this particular case.Other than talking about it here on SI, I mean.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
have written one letter so far. I am considering more. But I want to see if the ABWE president is still the man of character I knew him to be, so I’m waiting. I know the ABWE administration personally and at least one board member … we will see. Praying. Still working through my own anger and shock issues. I want to talk to my parents, too (they are ABWE missionaries), but they are in a no-internet place right now.
All right then, so what should the rest of us be doing about it?
And, BTW, how will your actions contribute to the solutions of this problem?
And, BTW, how will your actions contribute to the solutions of this problem?
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
Mike Loftis was the youth pastor of my church for a while, and he is probably the main reason I’m in Ukraine today. I used to write his wife personally and she acutally wrote me back :) They’ve eaten Sunday dinner with us.
The pastor of my sending/home church is an ABWE board member. My dad was also on the staff of our church before they became missionaries, so anyway.
I think everyone should just pray. pray pray pray. I have no idea if my actions will contribute, but my inactions will certainly not contribute. But I know that several pastors who support ABWE missionaries are starting to write them, ask for investigation, etc. So if you support ABWE missionaries, maybe you should kindly do that. I think that is the whole point of the blog.
The pastor of my sending/home church is an ABWE board member. My dad was also on the staff of our church before they became missionaries, so anyway.
I think everyone should just pray. pray pray pray. I have no idea if my actions will contribute, but my inactions will certainly not contribute. But I know that several pastors who support ABWE missionaries are starting to write them, ask for investigation, etc. So if you support ABWE missionaries, maybe you should kindly do that. I think that is the whole point of the blog.
The actions of the people who created the blog have already helped work towards a solution to this problem, as have the actions of every person who commented, as have the actions of those who pointed people to the blog. I don’t think ABWE would have felt the need to respond and then to modify their responses, except for the outpouring of emotion and concern expressed on the blog and as a result of the blog (through direct correspondence to ABWE).
-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
[Don Johnson] All right then, so what should the rest of us be doing about it?
And, BTW, how will your actions contribute to the solutions of this problem?
I’m not sure what you’re getting at, Don, and while I can’t speak for Anne, I did advise my pastor of the situation (once ABWE confirmed what was going on) and asked if we are supporting ABWE Missionaries at our church too (we don’t). I think that’s prudent….esp. since I’m involved with the Missions program at my church. I have no qualms about reconsidering my support of ABWE in light of this revelation.
Furthermore, it contributes to the solution - we may have needed to check on our (hypothetical) missionaries or pull funding. I will not support a missions agency that covers up criminal activities and terminates missionaries without informing their funding/sending churches of what has happened. Furthermore, my pastor mentioned that this isn’t the first time he’s heard of a situation like this happening, so apparently it’s a typical practice.
Proverbs 27:12 would seem to apply here.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Anne Sokol] Mike Loftis was the youth pastor of my church for a while, and he is probably the main reason I’m in Ukraine today. I used to write his wife personally and she acutally wrote me back :) They’ve eaten Sunday dinner with us.So you have some personal connections with ABWE… I can understand your concern.
The pastor of my sending/home church is an ABWE board member. My dad was also on the staff of our church before they became missionaries, so anyway.
[Anne Sokol] I think everyone should just pray. pray pray pray. I have no idea if my actions will contribute, but my inactions will certainly not contribute. But I know that several pastors who support ABWE missionaries are starting to write them, ask for investigation, etc. So if you support ABWE missionaries, maybe you should kindly do that. I think that is the whole point of the blog.You have said you sent one letter. You are also ‘going to’ talk to your parents about it. And then what? What if none of those actions (plus talking about it on a thread on SI) does anything to help. What will you do then? Will this become your personal crusade, all the way from the Ukraine? Not real practical, is it? And is it your responsibility, beyond maybe writing to express concern because you have some direct connections with ABWE?
For others of us here, what exactly is our responsibility? I wouldn’t support an ABWE missionary for separation reasons. I’m not connected with ABWE. I am not on any board connected with ABWE. etc., etc. So… this is really just a news item as far as I am concerned. It is a terrible story and very regrettable and all that, but beyond that, why are you trying to get us on a guilt trip as if we have to do something?
Now, maybe that isn’t what you are trying to do, but that is the impression I am getting from your many posts in this thread. So far, I don’t see any reason why I should ‘do’ something. I don’t know what I could do, anyway. So I could write a letter, too. Big whoop! What will that accomplish?
I could get on this thread and wring my hands about it and say we all must do something. And what would that accomplish? How would it help this situation or improve any (God forbid) future situation?
Think about it.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
don’t do a thing.
:)
no guilt intended!
:)
no guilt intended!
Don,
My reason for commenting orginally was to comend ABWE for their latest response. Any other board, pastor, church should do the same thing when responding to their sin. IMO ABWE representatives sinned 20 years ago and the current representatives are doing what they can to take ownership of it and correct it. I think that is a great example for any of us if this were to have happened in our ministries before we came.
The only thing we can do about something like this is determine if it affects us or are ministry personally. If I know of of a church or parachurch organization that handles something like ABWE, what I will try to confront them. If that doesn’t work, I will seperate from them. How does that work practically? Withdraw from any fellowship that I would have had is no longer until they deal with the matter Biblically. That would mean not go to conferences where they would preach, etc. Will it matter to the organization? Maybe, maybe not. But I believe God will be honored.
My reason for commenting orginally was to comend ABWE for their latest response. Any other board, pastor, church should do the same thing when responding to their sin. IMO ABWE representatives sinned 20 years ago and the current representatives are doing what they can to take ownership of it and correct it. I think that is a great example for any of us if this were to have happened in our ministries before we came.
The only thing we can do about something like this is determine if it affects us or are ministry personally. If I know of of a church or parachurch organization that handles something like ABWE, what I will try to confront them. If that doesn’t work, I will seperate from them. How does that work practically? Withdraw from any fellowship that I would have had is no longer until they deal with the matter Biblically. That would mean not go to conferences where they would preach, etc. Will it matter to the organization? Maybe, maybe not. But I believe God will be honored.
Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church
[Don Johnson] For others of us here, what exactly is our responsibility? I wouldn’t support an ABWE missionary for separation reasons. I’m not connected with ABWE. I am not on any board connected with ABWE. etc., etc. So… this is really just a news item as far as I am concerned. It is a terrible story and very regrettable and all that, but beyond that, why are you trying to get us on a guilt trip as if we have to do something?
Now, maybe that isn’t what you are trying to do, but that is the impression I am getting from your many posts in this thread. So far, I don’t see any reason why I should ‘do’ something. I don’t know what I could do, anyway. So I could write a letter, too. Big whoop! What will that accomplish?
I could get on this thread and wring my hands about it and say we all must do something. And what would that accomplish? How would it help this situation or improve any (God forbid) future situation?
Think about it.
It seems that the letter-writing, email-writing, phone-calling, and blog-posting did have an effect on ABWE. No one’s asking you to do anything, Don, but I hope you’re not implying that all that was just a “big whoop.”
-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
I think we take to heart the saying that evil triumphs when good men do nothing. It would be best if those directly connected to a church or organization took action without any other pressures being brought to bear, but sometimes it ain’t so. If it does take an outcry for Christians in positions of leadership/influence to be held accountable for illegal and immoral activity, then that’s what it takes. I have no problem with that. It’s the level of hysteria that some people attempt to generate that usually muddles the situation. Even though we are shocked, broken-hearted, and angered, we don’t need to demonstrate our passion for justice with hyperbole and vitriol.
Discussion