"We, the Board of ABWE and ABWE Administration ask for your forgiveness."

after further reading on that mk site … I really hope ABWE hires the third party guys. They really need experienced people handling this. From the beginning, I think they were making perhaps well-meaning but classic and major blunders in an abuse situation. And they will continue to do so if they don’t get experienced, outside people handling this.

Also, I really dont think they can see straight, in some ways. It’s the nature of the beast. I dont’ mean that in a bad way. They have supporters and 1000s of missionaries to think about (my parents are some of them ;) ) And in this type of situation, those factors can very easily cloud decision making. IMHO, they really ought to do what is right on a personal level for those now-women, not pit that against what is best on an organizational level. The one is consistant with the other—in the past, this obviously was not seen to be the case.

Also, this is one reason I like the internet. it gives a voice. can be unhealthy sometimes, but other times, it’s a really healthy reality-check for all of us.

shew. God help us all.

I agree, Anne. Leadership often thinks that they are equipped to deal with these issues, but many churches and ministries are woefully ignorant of how to deal with sexual predation. They think they can spot a liar or a molester, and they’ll rationalize the situation and excuse anyone that doesn’t fit their mental image of a pervert. They don’t understand that there are many paths to sexual predation. I do not believe that mismanagement of these incidents is done with malice toward children, but because they are naive about how predators operate, and they are not accustomed to taking a child’s word over an adult’s.

There was a good article at The Baptist Standard about this a couple of years ago, http://www.baptiststandard.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&i…] Sexual predators often fly under the radar at church . There is some great information at http://www.kidssafeministries.com/ Keeping Kids Safe Ministries as well.

ABWE is handling this well at this point, but the whole thing was preventable with just a little bit of education and forethought. It will happen again elsewhere unless churches and ministries smarten up.

the confession was so great. But the follow-up after that is making some of the victims more upset. They are so well-meaning, but they really have no idea what it’s like to be a victim, betrayed, and how to speak to and deal with those people who are hurting now in a way that reaches them. I mean those comments from my vantage point, fwiw. They are still behaving unprofessionally or something, even though they want to love those victims. They need professional help now to get in touch with these people in the right way, rebuild trust, take action, develop accountability, etc.

Sheesh, what a thing to inherit. But it’s their time to shine if they’re willing to do it.

[Rachel L.] Yes. All the redacting gives evidence to the “good ol’ boy” network in the IFB that protects mens’ reputations on the backs of victims.

Ironic.

I really appreciate the lack of common decency when my posts are redacted without letting me know. I am done with this place and I will encourage others to avoid this place as well.

Yes, Rachel L. the good old boy network is alive and well here at SI….

Aaron and moderators — I am very disappointed…. nothing more to say, your actions said it all…

Thank you and good bye

[tlange]

[Rachel L.] Yes. All the redacting gives evidence to the “good ol’ boy” network in the IFB that protects mens’ reputations on the backs of victims.

Ironic.

I really appreciate the lack of common decency when my posts are redacted without letting me know. I am done with this place and I will encourage others to avoid this place as well.

Yes, Rachel L. the good old boy network is alive and well here at SI….

Aaron and moderators — I am very disappointed…. nothing more to say, your actions said it all…

Thank you and good bye

It looks like overreaction is alive and well here at SI, too.

So, tlange, you’re absolutely positive that the motive of the moderators for redacting the names was to keep a good old boy network going, rather than to keep the post on topic and/or to refuse to possibly be party to libel by posting the names of the accused in a public forum?

Well, we’ve managed to make the thread mostly about the thread. :~ I definitely did my share to contribute to that.

Terry, nothing personal intended with the redactions. I was trying to tidy some things up quickly and the saying is true that haste makes —at least some—waste. So all i’s not dotted or t’s crossed as would have been ideal.

If there even is a good ol’ boys network, though, I sure haven’t heard from them.

In general, my drive is to try talk more about ideas here and less about people. But I do realize you can’t always separate the two.

I think it’s safe to say that the good ‘ol boys network dislikes us enough that they wouldn’t believe us even if we did try to defend them…

I mean, when SI runs stories like:
*Sweatt’s speech at the regional FBF mtg and subsequent discussion
*The Don Ketcham story
*The Biblical Evangelists’ story on Hyles
*Some of Kevin Bauder’s articles

It’s obvious that we’re out to preserve and protect the Fundy Grand Poobahs. Whoever they are. ;p

Left to right: Jim, Aaron, Jay and Larry

TLange is a good guy and not extreme in any way. I think his frustration (and I don’t intend to try and speak for him) is out of the fact that he wasn’t given a courtesy “heads up”. His involvement with the Pastor and ministry whose name was “redacted” is very personal and painful for him and like the victims of the ABWE missionary, he and many associated with that situation have never received any sense of closure or that justice was done. From my perspective, I think seeing his post censored, edited, redacted or whatever else you want to call it simply struck a raw nerve in him based on his personal experiences. I would think it appropriate that someone might reach out to him personally. He’s not “just a guy on SI” but a graduate of Central Seminary, someone who desires to serve the Lord and a good guy with great potential.

Frankly, there does seem to be an uneven approach to moderating that has caused me to “take breaks” for periods of time as well. I know it’s a difficult and thankless job, but once we jump into the practice of moderating — there are always unintended consequences. It just often simply feels like “big brother” is watching or that we are kids who need a clucking school marm hanging out on the playground making sure we “stay in line.” After 40 plus years of having uneven “standards” applied to me and the scrutiny that such oversight requires, I guess I’m probably just a bit sensitive to it all myself as well. I personally prefer being treated like an adult even if threads take twists and turns and rabbit trails. Frankly, when I hear a preacher chase a few rabbits, I’m just as likely as not to learn quite a bit. I wish the moderating was for obnoxious or unbiblical behavior and let the threads grow as they will. But that’s just me and I’m certainly not wanting the difficult job of moderating.

I just wanted to speak up for TLange — who really is a good guy who belongs in our dialogues.

And so the thread devolution continues…..sorry….

[RPittman] What do you think professional help can do? Do they have a cure? Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps all this blogging and all this talk about probably the most traumatic thing these victims have ever faced is NOT helping them? Talk and the outpouring of emotion is reinforcing their painful memories. The mind has a way of dealing with traumatic things—fading and forgetting the details—unless it is reinforced by reliving or talking about it.

No, it’s exactly the opposite. You have to understand the nature of abuse. it doens’t go away; it gets worse and worse. why do you think it’s coming up now when these girls are now having their own girls? it’s another layer they have to work through now.

I’m looking at it as a birth professional. there are women who were abused as children who are now emotionally/psychologically incapable of birthing vaginally or of breastfeeding their children because it brings back too much of having stuff shoved in their mouths.

It needs to be dealt with, some publicly, some privately. these ladies are doing a good job keeping both separated. I hope they all get the measure of healing and closure and restoration to their families that is possible in this life so they can stop the wasted years.

[Dan Burrell] I personally prefer being treated like an adult even if threads take twists and turns and rabbit trails… I wish the moderating was for obnoxious or unbiblical behavior and let the threads grow as they will.

One man’s rabbit trail is another man’s obnoxious behavior. Especially if said rabbit trail is so well traveled it resembles a four lane highway.

You are right about one thing- moderating is difficult and thankless. If Aaron hadn’t bribed me to help out with a Lexus and a corner office…

I agree with Anne that there is merit to ‘hashing’ these things out. Abuse is one of those crimes that leaves the victim feeling guilty- usually more guilty than the perpetrator, who usually finds some way of justifying their behavior.

IOW, if someone burgles my house, I am not going to feel guilty it in the least. But because sexual molestation requires the cooperation of the victim (through emotional seduction and blackmail) there is much more to be dealt with than just “He’s the bad guy, lock him up.”

But if I understand Mr. Pittman correctly, sometimes this rehashing becomes excessive and even self-indulgent, and years after all is said and done, there is still a very high degree of bitterness and anger. If we really believe that God is the God of all comfort, that our goal is not just justice but restoration, then some of the blogging and venting going on is way over the top.

We had a meeting last night with our teachers to give them information about what ‘grooming’ looks like, and also guidelines for interaction with kids so they can avoid false accusations. Boundaries must be set by churches and organizations, and people who cross those boundaries, even if they have a ‘good excuse’ (“I was just comforting/praying with her”) need to be removed immediately. It also needs to be noted that sexual perversion is not just for men anymore- women are victimizing boys and girls as well, and the same boundaries need to apply to female teachers and workers. Welcome to 2011.

Roland, have you read through the MK blog—the posts and especially the comments? If not, I strongly encourage you to do so. It will take some time, and you may have to skim a bit (one comment thread has over 500 comments), but I don’t think you can fully understand the gravity of this situation until you do.

You might say, “Well, that’s just one side of the story—the side of the alleged victims.” Actually, with few exceptions, ABWE has acknowledged what they have said as accurate. Is there some bitterness expressed there? Yes, and these victims should be encouraged to not allow that root of bitterness to grow and their hearts to be hardened. BUT…

Do you understand what happened here? A medical missionary sexually molested multiple girls over the course of many years, sometimes using medical “exams” as a pretext, and perhaps in some cases even using drugs to disable his victims. This after he had been repeatedly warned about inappropriate behavior with single nurses. Then when ABWE finally decided something needed to be done, they allowed him to resign under the pretext of being “unfaithful” to his wife. He confessed this sin of unfaithfulness to his pastor and his church, who naturally assumed that he had committed adultery with another adult woman. No one knew of his true crimes, and the victims and families on the mission field were told to keep quiet.

Can you imagine what it would be like to be one of his victims? Obviously I can’t to the fullest extent because I am not a female. But to have your innocence stolen from by a man who is looked up to by the entire missionary community, to have him continue in his position for many years in spite of his crimes, and when it finally comes to light, to have him get off with a minor slap on the wrist while you are told to keep quiet? That, and HE IS ALLOWED TO PRACTICE MEDICINE IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN FOR OVER 20 YEARS BECAUSE NOTHING WAS DONE ABOUT HIS CRIMES IN BANGLEDESH??? (I’m sorry for the all caps, but that just completely blows my mind.) And all this happens in all likelihood because he is the son of the primary founding father of the GARBC.

ABWE terribly, terribly mishandled this, and from what I understand, they continued to mishandle this right up until the recent confession by the board and leadership. I am grateful that they are now doing their best to right these wrongs and hope that the healing process can continue.

[RPittman] I don’t think that your references are teaching this kind of thing at all. It was an entirely different relationship between Israel and God. You cannot generalize these incidences of national repentance by a specially chosen group into the setting of a modern parachurch organization. Your hermeneutic is faulty. It is rather like an allegoric interpretation and identification of Israel with the USA. I don’t see any Scriptural warrant for repentance via groupspeak. How can one repent for another? After all, what is your view of repentance?

I’ll answer your question with a question. How did Daniel, Nehemiah and the others I cited “repent for another”?
I’ve already explained why these folks behaved this way and how it applies to us. You ignored the explanation. I’m not inclined to repeated it just now.

[RPittman] Yeah, this kind of thing is the politically correct thing to do from NY Life Insurance Company apologizing for insuring slaves to the latest politician caught in a compromising situation. What else would you call it if it fits the pattern? The old wisdom was to keep it under wraps for sake of the ministry and the innocent individuals involved; now, it is to make a public apology and show of repentance. Now, did I say anything about their motives or did you assume that, Aaron? I made a comment on observable behavior.

What is the point if calling this “political correctness” if not to imply that ABWE is only doing this to be politically correct? If it isn’t relevant to the thread, why bring it up?
In short, yes, you did say something about their motives and no assuming was involved. You should apologize.

Dan… about uneven moderating. All I can say is that you probably have no idea how difficult it is to:
a. be “even” and
b. be perceived as even.

I couldn’t tell you how many times we wrestled a great deal with an issue and still were not confident of “a.” And then there’s the boatload of times that “a” was pretty clear but “b” was not achieved.
I’m not optimistic that people will ever be consistently happy with the moderating. If we had a dozen Solomons telling folks to “cut the baby,” we’d still irritate a lot of people. Goes with the territory.
If folks want to spell out a sure fire recipe for the practical execution of “evenness,” I’m all ears. Short of that… generalities are not helpful at all.

[Greg Long] ABWE terribly, terribly mishandled this, and from what I understand, they continued to mishandle this right up until the recent confession by the board and leadership. I am grateful that they are now doing their best to right these wrongs and hope that the healing process can continue.

It seems that ABWE is “in over their heads” in trying to right this wrong. It was common in the past for ministries to hide such things, and ABWE did what everyone else was doing. Now there is a different standard (and should have been then as well), and more is needed than just an apology. ABWE is being encouraged to bring in http://www.netgrace.org/ GRACE (Joel linked to them in post 16), as it is the organization that the girls/women have requested. They need to do that as they don’t have the in house capability to handle this themselves.

Dan,

Just a quick response since I was the one who redacted Terry’s comment.

The charge that a “good ol’ boys” network is illustrated by that redaction is refuted simply by doing a search on the man’s name. If you do, you will find that there are numerous results where the details of the situation were exposed here at SI. If SI was covering this situation up, then those threads would have never been posted (and in fact as I recall, there were some who though they should not be posted; but they were anyway). The existence of the threads at SI shows that the charge of “cover up” is inaccurate.

Which leads to this: we need to be able to make distinctions between proper things and proper things in right places. Those distinctions are not always made, particularly by some who have been hurt by others. I don’t know anything of Terry’s story. But I would have to see some make some type of argument as to how bringing that up in this thread provides any meaningful resolution to it. I don’t know how that would work.

Furthermore, the fact that a person or group does not talk about something is not proof that they are covering it up. You’re a teacher. I am sure that at times in class you have had a student ask a question that was off topic, and your response is “That’s a good question that we cannot deal with here. Let’s return to that later, or see me after class.”

Consider Louise Dan’s comments early in this thread that were also redacted. She requested permission to start a thread on that topic. Aaron allowed her to. So again, there is clearly not a cover up. There is a discussion going about the very thing that Louise Dan wanted to talk about.

Perhaps if Terry had requested permission, or even just started another thread, or even participated in the thread that Louise Dan started on this topic, it would not have been redacted there. The evidence is clear.

Which reminds me that often, the solutions to problems are far easier than we want to admit.

I have no connection with any of the people involved in these issues. I have no desire to cover it up (or to expose it for that matter). It’s just not on the radar of the ministry that I am responsible for. But in this thread, it was off the topic of ABWE. These issues are currently being discussed in another thread. Those interested can and should participate there.

Those who are involved in situations like this should follow the example of ABWE.

I also wonder, Dan, if you think there is some room for disagreement as to how to handle things without attributing evil motives. I imagine you agree with me that fundamentalists have, in general, been way to quick to attribute evil motives to people when they disagree about how to handle something that is not clear in Scripture. Might this not be one of those times where we can disagree about whether or not to redact without attributing motives of “coverup”?