"God Likes Music of All Kinds"

Arguments from silence are not very strong, especially when you consider scores of passages that would apply to music and worship practices, such as "be not conformed to this world" or "let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth." Also, if you read through the Sermon on the Mount, it is clear that God did not intend for people to read the Bible narrowly or legalistically but to apply the scriptures more completely so as to meet the full intention of the command (i.e., Thou shalt not kill also implies not being angry or insulting towards others). So, to say, God didn't say anything about such-and-such, so I'm free to do whatever, can hardly be the right approach to Christian living.

Andy, I think both your and T Howard’s points apply to this issue. The fact that we do not see any blanket condemnation for types of music in the scriptures does indeed say something. However, the two scriptures you quote are also clearly important because they are not speaking from silence. The one on corrupt communication guides my thoughts on lyrics. The one on not being “conformed to the world” is why I consider association arguments. I frankly don’t want my worship music (and much of my own music) to sound like what gets popular airplay. Even the definition of “holy” is largely based on being separate. I want my worship music to be separate from popular, worldly styles, and even though I don’t think it has negative worldly associations, I don’t think it should sound like John Philip Sousa either.

I believe if God had wanted to make it obvious to us that music itself can be evil, he would have done so, and given us a way to identify it. The rest of what he wrote gives us the ability to apply both what has been said and what has not been said in his Word to get to a consistent practice on music. Because of the silence, I personally think we don’t need to know if music can be intrinsically evil (which most have admitted is hard, or maybe impossible to prove) to be able to wisely make decisions about it. God hasn’t always given us clarity on everything we wish to have it on. Also remember that adding to scripture is just as bad as taking away (and was mentioned first), so making requirements or pronouncements that God himself has not made or directly implied is, IMHO, very dangerous territory to be on, whereas application of what is (and by implication, also considering what is not) in the Word is expected.

So, to say, God didn't say anything about such-and-such, so I'm free to do whatever, can hardly be the right approach to Christian living.

Brother, God has given us both precepts and principles to follow. God has also chosen to be very specific about some things and less specific about other things. We must acknowledge that God chose to be very specific about certain elements of worship and less specific about others. We must also acknowledge that God chose to be less specific about the style of music and the instruments involved in worship. It would appear from the Scriptural record that many different styles of music and many different types of instruments were used for worship. These same styles and instruments were even used by Israel's pagan neighbors as part of their worship (e.g. research ANE religious rituals, read Daniel 3, etc.).

I grant that this doesn't necessarily mean ALL musical styles and ALL musical instruments were acceptable in worshipping Yahweh. I grant that human skull drums weren't acceptable. They would have been considered an abomination and unclean, and their use would have rendered the musician unclean. I grant that inebriated musicians aren't acceptable to God. God killed Aaron's sons for offering strange fire before the Lord (possibly as a result of their inebriation). But, how this applies to today's use of modern instruments and music styles in worship has not been made clear.

Consequently, we honor God best when we obey His clear preceptive will regarding worship and leave the less clear aspects to the individual believer's conscience or to the agreement of the assembled congregation.

God does say in Deut 12:4 (ESV), "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way," referring to pagan worship practices. NET Bible translates this verse, "You must not worship the LORD your God the way they worship." I think we need to be pretty careful about our worship services, and how we do them. I don't think God takes this lightly and I sometimes feel like some people feign ignorance of what is obviously not in line with the character of God. I think God leaves things unspecified because cultures do change and how cultures rebel against God is not constant. So we have evaluate our culture, see what parts are truly common grace (embrace them) and which parts are a reflection of that culture's rebellion against God (and reject those).

God does say in Deut 12:4 (ESV), "You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way," referring to pagan worship practices. NET Bible translates this verse, "You must not worship the LORD your God the way they worship."

What is the context of that statement? In other words, what is "that way" referencing?

Verses 2-3 make it clear that God is specifically referring to idolatry (not musical styles or instruments used in worship).

No one here is advocating for idol worship to become an acceptable part of Christian worship.

The chapter ends with a pretty sweeping prohibition:

Deuteronomy 12:29-32 (ESV)

"When the LORD your God cuts off before you the nations whom you go in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, 30 take care that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods?-- that I also may do the same.' 31 You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the LORD hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods. 32 "Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it.

Don't follow them. Don't serve their gods like they did. Don't worship the LORD your God in that way....then God says, "ever abominable thing that the LORD hates" -- clearly it is more than idolatry that God hates about it, it is everything that is abominable about it. That just seems pretty comprehensive to me.

So, again, I think we have Biblical warrant to be very careful about our worship, and especially introducing things from the wicked elements of our pagan culture into our worship services.

What is the context of that statement? In other words, what is "that way" referencing?

Verses 2-3 make it clear that God is specifically referring to idolatry (not musical styles or instruments used in worship).

No one here is advocating for idol worship to become an acceptable part of Christian worship.

Nor are any of us advocating for child sacrifice, nor sorcery or witchcraft, or bringing pagan ritual items/relics into worship, nor sexual immorality such as homosexual acts, beastiality, incest, nor prostitution in worship, and etc..., nor using false weights and measures, nor lying and falsehood, nor a heart that devices wicked plans, nor pride/haughty eyes, nor cross-dressing, nor remarriage after a divorce in certain cases, nor greed, nor hands that shed innocent blood, nor feet that make haste to run to evil, nor a person that sows discord among the brothers....all of these things that God hates as an abomination. But I'm supposed to believe that that this passage specifically applies to music genres (when there are no explicit references to music as part of what God hates).That even though the specific context, the passage addresses Israel’s unique context—entering Canaan, displacing nations, and avoiding their religious rituals. “In that way” (v. 31) refers to idolatrous and immoral practices like burning children, not cultural or artistic elements like music.

Applying it to music requires clearer evidence or criteria, as Scripture doesn’t explicitly tie music styles/genres to the prohibited practices. As many others have rightly pointed out, the arguments are speculative and cannot be applied consistently. Bottom line? It comes across as projecting personal culturally fundamentalist preferences and disguising them as holiness.

^{32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.}

How should we worship God? God tells us to obey his clear preceptive will (I.e., what thing so ever I command you). God does not give us specific instruction on the musical styles or instruments to be used in worship. He doesn’t hide His preceptive will regarding these issues in obscure and unrelated passages hoping we’ll figure it out.

Therefore, when we start adding our own restrictions to worship we are “adding to” God’s preceptive will and are thus living in disobedience to His Word.

>>God commanded them not to enquire after their gods in seeking to find out how they served their gods. How they served their gods included any playing of musical instruments that they played as part of their idolatrous activities.

Consequently, all the musical aspects of their idolatry were completely off-limits to God’s people.<<

So, if we can’t figure out exactly what idolatrous worship looks like, and we have to avoid any “musical aspects” of the idolatry, it sounds like you believe we can’t use any music or any instruments, since all or nearly all music and instruments will have been used in false or idolatrous worship somewhere.

Of course we are commanded in scripture to sing, which much false worship would include as well. If we follow your arguments to their logical conclusion, it sounds like we are between a rock and hard place here with no place to go…

I don’t think that’s a fair reading of Rajesh’s argument.

On one extreme there is “anything goes” on the other there is a strict regulative principle. In between is various forms of nuance. I would say the right view is not simply relativism, as in culture/associations make it bad, but that there is such a thing as ungodly art in music. We need discernment, which doesn’t come from endless arguments

There is no basis to say that, of course, any musical aspects of their idolatry were exempt from the commands and directives of this passage. In fact, to say that the commands in Deut. 12:30-31 did not include the musical aspects of their idolatry is to do one of the very things that God said must not be done: diminishing from His commands.

Except that God NEVER tells us what musical styles or musical instruments he forbids in worship. Further, based on the biblical record, many of the same musical styles and musical instruments Israel used in worship were also used by pagan nations in their worship. So, yes, there is a basis to say that God did not proscribe some musical aspects of pagan worship.

Pagans used altars in their worship. Israel used altars in its worship. Pagans offered animal sacrifices in their worship. Israel offered animal sacrifices in its worship. Pagan priests wore special clothing and had holy sites for their worship. Israel's priests wore special clothing and had holy sites for its worship. Pagans used various musical instruments in their worship. Israel used many of the same musical instruments in its worship.

There are many pagan worship practices God does proscribe. Musical styles and musical instruments didn't make the list.

This leads me to conclude that there are some elements of worship shared by both Pagans and God's people that God fully accepts. He doesn't need us to build a fence around His Word, and he doesn't need us adding to His preceptive will.

Really? I look forward with great anticipation to your sharing in detail specific Bible passages where the Bible talks about the musical styles that Israel used in worship that were also used by pagan nations in worship.

The biblical psalms are often organized by the genre or style of the psalm: praise, lament, trust, hymn, thanksgiving, wisdom, and royal.

Some of these styles or genres are also reflected in other pagan cultures. For example, during their religious festivals and in their temples pagans sang songs of praise of their idol gods.

The communal lament [in the book of Psalms] typically follows a pattern similar to pagan lament practiced in the Ancient Near East and includes the following:
1. Address and introductory cry to God for help
2. Lament, usually political in nature
3. Confession of trust
4. Petition
5. Assurance of being heard
6. Desire for God’s intervention
7. Vow of praise
8. Praise of God when petition has been heard

(Source: Jessica McMillan, “Lament In Worship In An Evil World,” Journal for Baptist Theology and Ministry, 18, no. 1 (2021): 29.)

So, we have ample evidence that the musical styles or genres were similar.

Some people seem to me to falsely hold that God's people were more or less just imbeciles who could not originate anything about music on their own; everything that they knew about music they would have had to have borrowed and learned from the wicked. That is not what the Bible ever teaches was true about God's people.

Really? Israel learned how to build and construct parts of the temple from pagans. Pagan craftsmen helped build David's house and the temple. A pagan even fabricated the tools used in temple worship. The same pagans who helped Solomon build the temple then went on and built temples to Astarte-Melqart, two Phoenician gods.

If Israel used pagan craftsmen to help build the temple and to fabricate tools used in worship, why is it so hard for you to admit that Israel played various musical instruments that pagans played and even played styles of music which they may have learned from the pagans as part of their worship of Yahweh? Certainly, the subject and content of their worship songs were different. But, many of their instruments were the same and they used similar styles of songs (praise, lament, etc.).

What He did not ever allow them to do is to go to wicked people and learn from them how they used musical instruments to worship their false gods and then incorporate their wicked ways of playing their instruments into the worship of God.

How does one play a musical instrument wickedly? How does one play a harp in a wicked way? How does one play a flute in a wicked way? A trumpet? A cymbal? If there is a wicked way to play these instruments, it has to do with the reason it is being played.

Your comment makes no sense.

He gave them Spirit-filled godly prophets and other people to originate music that pleased Him without their ever having to learn anything from the wicked.

Certainly, we have Holy Spirit inspired Psalms. But, the rest of your statement about music cannot be proven.

So what? Saying this does not prove anything about any assertions that the specific ways that pagans played various musical instruments in their worship were also the same ways that God's people played the same musical instruments in godly worship. Furthermore, there is zero biblical evidence that God's people ever learned ways to play musical instruments from wicked people and then used those specific ways acceptably in the worship of God.

Thank you for conceding and acknowledging that Israel used many of the same musical instruments in worship that pagan cultures around them used in worship (human skull drums excepted, of course).

"So what?" Rajesh says, then goes on to distinguish between the altars used by pagans and those used by believing Israelites. Then he does the same with the pagan animal sacrifices and those of Israel, and again with the clothing and sacred sites of the pagans and Israel.

But he refuses to grant Christian artists the same liberty, even when they explicitly reject demonic worship and idolatry, all because (in his mind) they are using instruments and styles of music that are permanently tainted.