There Is No Remaining Christian Case for Trump
“Now we’ve seen who he is, we know his impact on our nation, and we’ve seen his influence on the church. This isn’t the 2016 primary, it’s not the 2016 or 2020 general elections. There is no more ‘binary choice,’” - David French
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[WallyMorris]“The only thing I will give Trump credit for was getting judges through, but that was more his administration and McConnell.” - If Trump had not been President, there would not have been an administration to find Constitutionally conservative Supreme Court nominees. Yes, McConnell deserves much more credit than he got for the new Justices during Trump’s term as President. But it WAS Trump’s term as President that allowed him to do that.
You didn’t really need Trump to do it. Any conservative president would have put together a slate of conservative judges. McConnell, not Trump, was credited with pushing the judges through. It was McConnell that held openings the last two years of Obama’s term, including the Supreme Court seat. The White House staff (a position my cousin held under the Bush Administration) that puts together the judges and works along side the Head of the Senate and their staff to get these to the floor. It is the Senate staff, that gets it through the Senate. Trump made it a priority, but in the end it was a ton of hussle and foresight on McConnell’s part that set the stage and secured the judiciary for decades. McConnell set the stage long before the name Trump was on a ballot.
I understand all of that (I have a political science degree). But the only 2 final candidates in 2016 were Clinton & Trump. If Clinton had been President, none of the Supreme Court decisions we appreciate today would exist. In 2016 I voted for Trump, even though I detested the man personally. I despised Clinton even more. In 2020 I voted for Trump, even though I still detested the man personally. I despised Biden even more. Biden won, and now we live with the consequences.
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
[dgszweda]The only thing I would say about this is that Trump selected more reliable conservative justices. Reagan and the Bushes, while they did nominate some winners, had some real losers, too. I do think it would be a disaster to put Trump back in office, and I really hope Republicans will nominate someone different, but I have to give him credit for nominating good justices.You didn’t really need Trump to do it. Any conservative president would have put together a slate of conservative judges. McConnell, not Trump, was credited with pushing the judges through. It was McConnell that held openings the last two years of Obama’s term, including the Supreme Court seat. The White House staff (a position my cousin held under the Bush Administration) that puts together the judges and works along side the Head of the Senate and their staff to get these to the floor. It is the Senate staff, that gets it through the Senate. Trump made it a priority, but in the end it was a ton of hussle and foresight on McConnell’s part that set the stage and secured the judiciary for decades. McConnell set the stage long before the name Trump was on a ballot.
[AndyE]The only thing I would say about this is that Trump selected more reliable conservative justices. Reagan and the Bushes, while they did nominate some winners, had some real losers, too. I do think it would be a disaster to put Trump back in office, and I really hope Republicans will nominate someone different, but I have to give him credit for nominating good justices.
My response is going to be more nuanced. But Trump moved more conservative (more right on the political spectrum) judges through the process. That was solely the result of McConnell’s iron grip on the Senate, his multi-year foresight, and the deals that he worked. Regan and Bush did not have as great of a Senate control and therefore had to find judges not so right of the spectrum to get them through. The conservative hold on the judiciary is significantly more a result of McConnell than anything Trump did. The one thing that I will give credit to Trump was that he set a mandate on his administration to not leave any judge position open. That has not always been a mandate set by previous presidents.
Conservative Presidents have done better than liberal ones, but I’ve got to give Trump credit; he figured out that if you want strict construction, you need to go to Heritage and the like. Neither Bush figured this one out, and we’re suffering the consequences.
Hopefully DeSantis and others remember this. I don’t like Trump’s character. But he did bring blue collar workers back to the GOP, along with Hispanics and not a few blacks, by actively fighting for them. That, and judges, was a real accomplishment.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
1. You talk as though the election was proper and that’s a foregone conclusion. The election was very close.
It was close. No, there was not enough illegality to change the outcome. And no, absentee voting isn’t laziness. (I don’t think you really want to take the position that doing something an easier way vs a harder way is always laziness.)
2. Tons of stuff about Trump was simply manufactured. Russian collusion? That was the product of his political opponent. The level of hatred toward him is breathtaking.
I’m not sure what the relevant point here is. Surely not, “X is hated, therefore X is wonderful.”
3. The level of corruption in the current presidency is unbelievable. And the press does. not. care.
Again, not seeing the relevance. “Current admin is awful, therefore the previous one was great?” … or is it “presidents from two opposing parties can’t both be bad for the country”? Neither of these holds up.
4. They’re going to pass off Biden’s failure as due to dementia. But it’s his stupid policies.
Nothing that Biden does or that “they” say about him budges Trump one millimeter on the presidential fitness scale. See #3. Additional bad leaders do not make other leaders any better.
5. We need to STOP paying people not to work. I cannot hire people to work, and I’m offering new workers about what I paid experienced staff 4 years ago. I am constantly dealing with “supply chain” problems.
I don’t disagree. I don’t see how this makes Trump a better human being though.
6. Trump is a self-centered, pompous, rude, self-indulgent, self-justifying, jerk. And maybe the best president in recent memory.
Well, you are half right.
7. My wife, while she would vote for Trump, is REALLY hoping he doesn’t run again. I get that. There are several that I would kind of prefer to have on the “R” ticket JUST so that hopefully the irrational HATRED people have for Trump wouldn’t be a factor again and PERHAPS SI doesn’t have to become overloaded with abject stupidity….
She’s on the right track. On “abject stupidity”… I’m not sure if that’s a reference to my thoughts on the topic or someone else’s. Either way, an insult is not a counterargument. (I’m not offended, though. I have committed abject stupidity multiple times over the last several weeks! So… guilty. Not here, though, I don’t think. IRL, as they say.)
I don’t think we actually disagree on this particular point: It would be better for all involved if someone better than Trump were the GOP nominee in 2024, and there are several that would probably be better. (I’m sure I see a much higher probability than you would, but we’d agree that it’s “probable”?)
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Trump’s issues are more obvious, but I would suggest that at a certain point, the things that the Democrats have been doing, weaponizing government agencies against their political opponents, are even more sinister. It’s just more presentable because it doesn’t show up well on TV, and quite frankly because the media don’t cover it well.
LOTS of issues are a danger to our republic here.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Dan Miller]2. Tons of stuff about Trump was simply manufactured. Russian collusion? That was the product of his political opponent. The level of hatred toward him is breathtaking.
Actually, I think the “hatred” toward him is also completely manufactured, but from the point of view of those espousing it, necessary. It’s what Trump represents that the opposition hates. The “elites,” however you want to describe them, love power and wealth, and their wealth and power increase with forced “green” programs, open borders, war, and trade deals that advantage others than the U.S.A.
Trump, in spite of his flaws (and you laid out a lot of them in your point 6), is someone who, at least much of the time, actually was willing to act on behalf of us unwashed, non-elite classes, so the elites have to do whatever they can to destroy him, because our values (and little “inconveniences” like the U.S. Constitution) are a threat to their wealth and power. If Trump’s opponents succeed, and Trump can’t run and is replaced by someone like DeSantis, watch the knives and manufactured hatred come out even more toward him than it did toward Trump.
Trump is simply a proxy for us, nothing more. He was just willing to get down dirty and fight, unlike many previous Republicans. It’s too bad the vessel was so flawed, but even if he hadn’t been, I’m unconvinced that that would have changed the level of “hatred.” If DeSantis becomes the nominee and is willing to fight, he will be the target and Trump will be nothing more than something used to tar his replacement.
Trump is hardly the clean, principled “Mr. Smith” from “Mr. Smith goes to Washington,” but what is arrayed against him is eerily similar to what was portrayed there against Smith. DeSantis doesn’t have many of Trump’s negatives, but that won’t stop the same types of fake “evidence” from being “found” or “uncovered” against him, should he become the nominee.
Dave Barnhart
I am from Florida, and while Desantis still plays into some of the conspiracy and dumb Trump narratives, he is significantly more capable than Trump was. He speaks much better. He graduated from Yale and then Harvard Law School. He was in the US Navy and has held a number of political offices. While he may get ripped by some parts of the media, he is miles ahead of qualifications, communication and ability to execute than Trump was and so he will hold his own. He did very well in defending the Parental Rights in Education Act. I have met him a few times and know people in his circle, and in my opinion Trump should just move out of the way and let DeSantis on by.
[dgszweda]I am from Florida, and while Desantis still plays into some of the conspiracy and dumb Trump narratives, he is significantly more capable than Trump was. He speaks much better. He graduated from Yale and then Harvard Law School. He was in the US Navy and has held a number of political offices. While he may get ripped by some parts of the media, he is miles ahead of qualifications, communication and ability to execute than Trump was and so he will hold his own. He did very well in defending the Parental Rights in Education Act. I have met him a few times and know people in his circle, and in my opinion Trump should just move out of the way and let DeSantis on by.
I don’t think you’ll get much disagreement on this from about anyone here. He has less negatives, is definitely better spoken, and it appears so far that he’s willing to fight hard against the opposition. If DeSantis decides to try for the presidential nomination, I’d certainly vote for him over Trump in the primaries (and hopefully also the general election). I do still think that if he’s the nominee, he’ll generate as much opposition and hatred as Trump did, because in the end, their “hatred” is not really about Trump.
My “defense” of Trump is only as it concerns him vs. Clinton or Biden. I still think he’s better than either, and in spite of his negatives, I’d still vote for him over Biden or mostly anyone who would replace Biden (like Newsom). And I don’t apologize for that. I’m just hoping I don’t have to make that choice.
Dave Barnhart
Let’s not forget how George W. Bush was treated. You will rarely find a nicer guy, but the left quite often compared him to Hitler. Some of the vitriol directed at Trump was earned, but the reality is that any Republican will get it because the Republican stands in the way of the progressive left. For that matter, when even Obama or Biden did something that wasn’t quite progressive, the long knives came out there, too. It’s an unfortunate, but real, pattern.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[dcbii]Actually, I think the “hatred” toward him is also completely manufactured, but from the point of view of those espousing it, necessary. It’s what Trump represents that the opposition hates. The “elites,” however you want to describe them, love power and wealth, and their wealth and power increase with forced “green” programs, open borders, war, and trade deals that advantage others than the U.S.A.
Trump, in spite of his flaws (and you laid out a lot of them in your point 6), is someone who, at least much of the time, actually was willing to act on behalf of us unwashed, non-elite classes, so the elites have to do whatever they can to destroy him, because our values (and little “inconveniences” like the U.S. Constitution) are a threat to their wealth and power. If Trump’s opponents succeed, and Trump can’t run and is replaced by someone like DeSantis, watch the knives and manufactured hatred come out even more toward him than it did toward Trump.
Trump is simply a proxy for us, nothing more. He was just willing to get down dirty and fight, unlike many previous Republicans. It’s too bad the vessel was so flawed, but even if he hadn’t been, I’m unconvinced that that would have changed the level of “hatred.” If DeSantis becomes the nominee and is willing to fight, he will be the target and Trump will be nothing more than something used to tar his replacement.
Trump is hardly the clean, principled “Mr. Smith” from “Mr. Smith goes to Washington,” but what is arrayed against him is eerily similar to what was portrayed there against Smith. DeSantis doesn’t have many of Trump’s negatives, but that won’t stop the same types of fake “evidence” from being “found” or “uncovered” against him, should he become the nominee.
If you asked me 6 months ago, “Do you want Trump in 2024?” I’d have said No, let’s move on.
But the Jan6 committee has changed my mind. It is injustice masquerading (badly) as justice and the best response is to oppose it directly. The democrats/liberals have shown on multiple occasions a willingness to bold face lie for political reasons and the last thing I’d want to see is that working.
Trump watched the insurrection for 3 hours and did absolutely nothing. I can’t think of any other president who would not have taken immediate measures to bring the insurrection under control. I don’t believe the Jan 6 committee can portray Trump in a bad enough light. My opinion only, of course.
Trump had also, four days prior to the demonstration, offered the National Guard to protect the Capitol, and was turned down.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Trump had also, four days prior to the demonstration, offered the National Guard to protect the Capitol, and was turned down.
I really find it fascinating for someone who is usually logical and factual will believe the narrative from the Trump camp about the National Guard but refuses to testify under oath about it (Meadows) but is so quick to dismiss fellow Republicans who testified under oath that it wasn’t the case such as Chris Miller.
Also, you seemed to deflect Ken’s observation about Trump’s inaction and lack of leadership on January 6th. If we ignore Trump’s 3 hr. inaction while the Rioters sacked the Capitol, We have truly set the bar at one of the lowest point for our nation’s leadership in our nation’s history. Trump’s inaction demonstrates that he isn’t qualified. Just in case you might respond and bring up Biden, I don’t think he’s qualified either due to his mental state.
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