By SI Filings Aug 23 2019 Donald TrumpEvangelical Support of TrumpIsrael‘Disturbing,’ ‘nutty,’ ‘dangerous’: 5 Christian leaders react to Trump’s ‘King of Israel’ retweet 1081 reads There are 13 Comments Related... Aaron Blumer - Fri, 08/23/2019 - 7:13am Trump, the chosen? In the Daniel 2:21 sense, every ruler is the chosen one. So sure, he's chosen... just like Obama. He will eventually be chosen to be former president. (I'm praying for sooner rather than later.) Also related... Donald Trump, Evangelicals, and Blasphemy What's interesting is that Joel Shaffer - Fri, 08/23/2019 - 8:37am What's interesting is that God struck down Herod Agrippa for less than what Trump retweeted when he reveled in being compared to the 2nd coming of God and King of the Jews. Then Herod went from Judea to Caesarea and stayed there. He had been quarreling with the people of Tyre and Sidon; they now joined together and sought an audience with him. After securing the support of Blastus, a trusted personal servant of the king, they asked for peace, because they depended on the king’s country for their food supply. On the appointed day Herod, wearing his royal robes, sat on his throne and delivered a public address to the people. They shouted, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.” Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died. Acts 12:20-23 No matter how many conservative judges Trump appoints or how much he stands for Christian liberty or Pro-life issues, he needs to be called out by the conservative Christians that support him for his retweet. God does not share His glory with Trump. I once heard a professor say ... Craig Toliver - Fri, 08/23/2019 - 1:36pm I once heard a professor say ... "I'm the gift of the Holy Spirit for missions" He was using hyperbole and so was Trump Remember when Oprah called Obama "The One"?! Or Rangel: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/charlie-rangels-harlem-1... “They hate the president,” he told the Antioch faithful, a message he had repeat at five other church drop-ins on that sunny summer Sunday. “God sent us Barack Obama,” he told a congregation in 116th St. I once heard a professor say Joel Shaffer - Fri, 08/23/2019 - 2:21pm I once heard a professor say ... "I'm the gift of the Holy Spirit for missions" He was using hyperbole and so was Trump Remember when Oprah called Obama "The One"?! Or Rangel: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/charlie-rangels-harlem-1... “They hate the president,” he told the Antioch faithful, a message he had repeat at five other church drop-ins on that sunny summer Sunday. “God sent us Barack Obama,” he told a congregation in 116th St. Of course, you failed to mention that at that rally where Oprah introduced Obama, Obama began his speech by saying "I give all praise and honor to God. This is the Day that the Lord has made." Now lets go over what Trump said in his retweet. “Thank you to Wayne Allyn Root for the very nice words. “President Trump is the greatest President for Jews and for Israel in the history of the world, not just America, he is the best President for Israel in the history of the world...and the Jewish people in Israel love him.......like he’s the King of Israel. They love him like he is the second coming of God...But American Jews don’t know him or like him. They don’t even know what they’re doing or saying anymore. It makes no sense! But that’s OK, if he keeps doing what he’s doing, he’s good for..........all Jews, Blacks, Gays, everyone. And importantly, he’s good for everyone in America who wants a job.” Wow! How in the world did you get hyperbole out of that? He thanks Root for the several compliments, including the "like he is the King of Israel and loving him "like he's the 2nd coming of God." He's enjoying the compliment! Whereas Obama immediately gave praise to God. As much as I disagreed with about 90% of Obama's policies, at least he doesn't revel in the messiah language that is being thrown around. By the way, Wayne Allyn Root is one of the worst people for Trump to give props for such kind words. He's a conspiracy theorist in the worst way, believing without proof that Obama was foreign exchange student at Columbia (birther), he several times accused Obama as a closeted gay, he accused him of being Muslim, he accused him of being a closeted Marxist, and the list goes on and on. He said that the Las Vegas concert shooting was actually the work of Muslim terrorists, and that white supremacist James Alex Fields Jr. who killed Heather Heyer at the Unite the Right Rally was paid by Soros to kill her because "no conservatives I've ever met commits violence, ever." Sadly, while conservative Christians actually have leverage to keep Trump accountable, they'd rather justify his anti-Christian behaviors. Joel Shaffer wrote: GregH - Fri, 08/23/2019 - 3:51pm Joel Shaffer wrote: Sadly, while conservative Christians actually have leverage to keep Trump accountable, they'd rather justify his anti-Christian behaviors. Yep, that is a fact. We are stuck with Trump because of conservative Christians who are his single largest voting block. It would not take many of them to wise up and Trump would not even get on the ballot in 2020. But they won't--they will continue to carry water for him regardless of what he says. Amazing Joeb - Fri, 08/23/2019 - 10:26pm A group of Fine Highly Educated Men of God who don’t think Trump is God’s special one for America. America’s Messiah. Wow this is amazing. Aaron wow. What a guy. You just won the Super Bowl in my book. Speaking of the Super Bowl who thinks Carson Wentz will play the whole season. I say if he goes down this time three strikes he is out. I hope Nick Foles does real well with the Jaguars. A little off topic talk since both are our fellow brothers in Christ. Speaking of the Eagles remember when Fox News showed all the pictures of Eagles kneeling and bowing down to embarrass them because they wouldn’t go see Trump. Trying to portray them as kneeling during the National Anthem. Then it ended up being that all Eagles pictures shown were just Christian players praying in private moments. Just shows you how far Trump supporters will go to support their Messiah. GO EAGLES. Blasphemy or botched bragging? Aaron Blumer - Sat, 08/24/2019 - 10:05am Looking at it in context (what context there can be on Twitter!) I'm not sure if it's blasphemy, so much as another utterance from a habitual braggart--who can't even get bragging right. If I've got it straight the sequence of events was... Wayne Allyn Root gushes adoration all over the place and grossly overstates how awesomely pro-Israel Trump is... and how elated everyone in Israel is about it. Trump retweets, embracing the whole offensively exaggerated mess, because he's too in love with himself to recognize embarassingly stupid sycophancy when he hears it. The lack of reflection on the offensiveness of Root's ravings blinds him to the fact that when you engage in vicarious bragging, you have to use something that people are likely to see as positive. It's like the guy who quotes a reviewer's insult on the cover of his self-published book, because he doesn't understand that the guy insulted him. In this case, Root meant no insult, but that kind of praise is insulting. It basically says "This person's real accomplishments are so small, I have to resort to basically claiming that everybody sees him as the messiah." It drips with desperation. And when Trump retweets it, he drips with desperation also. Desperation to convince everyone (and maybe himself) of how awesome he is. Simplicity is truth's most becoming garb. If you're, say, Michael Jordan, you don't have to brag on yourself or quote other people bragging on you (I don't remember if Jordan actually did much of that) because the numbers do the best possible talking. The facts are all you need. So, in this case, the situation reminds me less of Herod in Acts 12, and more of Nebuchadnezzar in his pre-cow days (Daniel 4:30-32). I really don't wish Trump ill in any personal way. But I wonder if he has some cow days coming. (Prov. 16:18, 18:12) So, in this case, the Joel Shaffer - Sat, 08/24/2019 - 2:13pm So, in this case, the situation reminds me less of Herod in Acts 12, and more of Nebuchadnezzar in his pre-cow days (Daniel 4:30-32). I really don't wish Trump ill in any personal way. But I wonder if he has some cow days coming. (Prov. 16:18, 18:12) It would be impossible to really know the internal motivation of Trump, whether he is more of a Herod or a Nebuchadnezzar. Either way, it would be for Trump's best interest and the interest of our country if his conservative Christian supporters would speak up and hold him accountable once in a while. I may be wrong, but because Trump's conservative Christian supporters feel that Trump is wrongly attacked all the time (which some of the time I do admit he is wrongly attacked), they stay silent when Trump actually says something terribly wrong or creates a policy which goes against the US constitution and/or Scripture. He's become their champion of the culture war and they love the slander, the malice, and the scheming that he brings to the political table because he is giving their enemy (the liberals, progressives, elites, etc...) a taste of their own medicine. But sadly, these few temporary victories that Trump may score are so so short-sighted and will eventually be overturned in the long run. In the meantime, these conservative Christians/churches that aligned themselves to the Trump administration will have made their "salt" worthless because of the compromises they were willing to endure in their public, vocal support for Trump. Joel Shaffer wrote: dcbii - Sat, 08/24/2019 - 4:29pm Joel Shaffer wrote: Either way, it would be for Trump's best interest and the interest of our country if his conservative Christian supporters would speak up and hold him accountable once in a while. The main problem as I see it, is that no one gives those who support Trump in any measure, any credit for not supporting Trump where and when he is wrong. It's all or nothing. Seen from the perspective of losing "salt" in front of the world, it's either disavow Trump entirely, or "your Christianity is worthless." You can't win with that no matter what you do. I don't try to make politics a big part of who I am in front of my unsaved friends, but I since I can't in good conscience support even more of the positions of Trump's opponents, eventually people find out where you stand, and very few people these days even attempt any form of nuance where you can support some positions and not others. Where you can do that, great, but those opposed to Christianity have no interest in actually knowing the truth about Trump, Christians, or anything else. You're either 100% for abortion, LGBT rights, hatred of Israel, etc., or you're their enemy. In that case, I'll take the latter. Dave Barnhart The main problem as I see it, Joel Shaffer - Sun, 08/25/2019 - 8:50pm The main problem as I see it, is that no one gives those who support Trump in any measure, any credit for not supporting Trump where and when he is wrong. It's all or nothing. Seen from the perspective of losing "salt" in front of the world, it's either disavow Trump entirely, or "your Christianity is worthless." You can't win with that no matter what you do. I don't try to make politics a big part of who I am in front of my unsaved friends, but I since I can't in good conscience support even more of the positions of Trump's opponents, eventually people find out where you stand, and very few people these days even attempt any form of nuance where you can support some positions and not others. Where you can do that, great, but those opposed to Christianity have no interest in actually knowing the truth about Trump, Christians, or anything else. You're either 100% for abortion, LGBT rights, hatred of Israel, etc., or you're their enemy. In that case, I'll take the latter. I agree with you that many times with those opposed to Christianity, it is all or nothing with Trump, Christians, conservatism, and etc... For many that I know who are not Christians, because they have no trust in God, they cannot help but put all their eggs in the government basket for all their trust. It's all they have. And I have lost a few of my secular friends over my Biblical stance of sexuality where I have publicly stated that homosexual sex and pre-marital sex/sexual immorality are sins against God and others. But I have not lost any of my secular friends over the issue of abortion, Even among some of my most secular reproductive-rights friends, they respect my Biblical stance and insistence that life begins at conception because I am consistent and insistent that we Christians should do everything we can to care babies that were at risk of being aborted, whether that be adopting, doing foster care, or coming alongside of single mothers and mentoring these fatherless kids all the way through adulthood. Breaking the Fatherless Cycle is what we do at the ministry in which I am the executive director. http://www.utmgr.org/why-we-changed-utms-mission/ In my many conversations with secular friends who don't understand the evangelical support behind Trump, I've helped several of them distinguish between "Nose-holder" Christians that voted for and will probably vote again for Trump and the compromising Trump supporters that I reference in the earlier post. While I will never be able to violate my conscience and vote for Trump, some of my closest friends who happen to be some of the most godly people I know are "nose-holders" and I respect their reasonings and their motivations for doing so. I've had the long talks either in person or on Facebook with my secular friends as to why Hillary was just as bad or even a worse choice than Trump in the minds of many Christians who felt they would be compromising their Christianity and that their salt would be worthless if they publicly or even privately supported Hillary or any of the democratic candidates. And a few of these secular friends were mad at me at first because I didn't even vote (I tried to, but I only had an hour window to do so. The lines were long in my neighborhood and I would've voted for Evan McMullin) or that I would've voted for a 3rd party candidate instead of Hillary because a vote for 3rd party candidate was a vote for Trump in their minds. But being someone that is an equal opportunity offender and will denounce Trump and Obama or even compliment them in the same breath goes a long way in opening political conversations. On a side note, I am in conversation with a few of my secular friends about social justice and later this fall and I am co-leading a book club at our church where we discuss books on social justice from a Christian worldview as a way to open up conversations about Jesus. A few others and myself from our church have several secular friends that are extremely interested in social justice who are open to hear from Christians such as myself that have devoted their lives to the gospel and social justice for longer than they've been alive. The first book that we will be tackling is Rosia Butterfield's, "The Gospel Comes with a House Key: Practicing Radically Ordinary Hospitality in a Post-Christian world. https://www.9marks.org/review/book-review-the-gospel-comes-with-a-house-... The book doesn't use Social Justice at all throughout the entire book, but it is a book about radically loving your neighbor as yourself because they are fellow image-bearers of God, in a way that tangibly demonstrates the gospel. I also chose the book deliberately because Rosia Butterfield's background as a lesbian activist before she was a Christian, because of the book's gospel-centeredness and because Christians throughout history (especially ancient Christian history) have practiced hospitality as one way to sacrificially love the poor, the stranger, and their needy neighbors (as opposed to the prevailing world's definition and practice of social justice). Joel TylerR - Sun, 08/25/2019 - 10:18pm That book is very good. It made me uncomfortable with how "radical" (but, really, not too radical) her view of hospitality went. It was radical to me because I don't do it. It challenged me. Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist? Butterfield's Book G. N. Barkman - Mon, 08/26/2019 - 8:20am This third book by Butterfield is excellent. It is the 2019 study book for our elders and pastors. It is radical. I doubt that many can practice hospitality the way Butterfield does, but it is also very encouraging. Everyone can find something to improve outreach to their community. Butterfield is an outstanding writer. She pulls you into her narrative. When she described the conversion of her mother, I could not hold back the tears. Highly recommended! G. N. Barkman Hospitality Mark_Smith - Mon, 08/26/2019 - 12:42pm A few months ago I met a guy and tried to help him. Started a bible study with him. Just felt weird. he wanted a ride to church, but it just didn't seem right. My pastor even asked me to. I looked up his name. He has been arrested multiple times for public nudity and has been institutionalized for sexual issues... What if I invited him in my home and introduced my wife and kids to him... shudder.