There Is No Remaining Christian Case for Trump
“Now we’ve seen who he is, we know his impact on our nation, and we’ve seen his influence on the church. This isn’t the 2016 primary, it’s not the 2016 or 2020 general elections. There is no more ‘binary choice,’” - David French
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If an election were held today, I’m not sure I could hold my nose and vote for Josh Hawley or Ted Cruz. By several measures, they’re better than Trump. On at least one—let’s call it integrity—they might be worse (is it better to support a stolen election hoax because you’re semi-delusional or to back it for your own gain, knowing full well it’s a lie?). Anyway, I’m glad to see Mike Pence didn’t attend Turning Point. (Pence skips Faith & Freedom conference. Is attacked by Trump anyways.) Right now, he’s the only one I could vote for and feel half good about it.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
As someone who voted for a different candidate in the 2016 primaries than Trump, and who will do so again in 2024, I don’t have to “feel” good about my vote in the general election when knowledge tells me I’m still voting for better policies. I don’t govern my decisions by my feelings, and hard choices are a fact of life.
The book of Judges is replete with leaders who are mostly very flawed (except maybe Deborah), who still ended up being better for Israel than the occupying forces. Samson was a particularly egregious example. And yet, I’d still vote for him over the Philistines any day, and I’ll do so again in 2024 if necessary. It does me no good whatsoever to vote for a candidate who is personally more acceptable to me but has no chance of winning, and will result in the same type of mess we are facing now in the U.S. The last 1.5 years of Biden administration policies have certainly not pushed me away from my line of thinking.
Yes, I know. Pragmatism. Well, pragmatism isn’t always wrong, and I’m certainly not going to follow idealists when the end result is noticeably worse. Obviously, your conscience needs to be clear about the choice you make. Mine is.
Dave Barnhart
You summarized my thoughts very clearly.
Trump was and is a mess in many ways, but if we judge him by his deeds, he really did pretty well, especially compared to Obama and Biden, both of whom probably belong in jail for how they rigged things.
Going forward, I don’t want Trump because of the character issues and because he’s simply no spring chicken anymore. Ron DeSantis is growing on me these days.
Dunno what to say about Cruz, except that a lot of the steps taken by states, though approved by judges, would seem to reduce vote security, and further that somehow these days both sides seem to feel the need to throw red meat at the furthest out significant portions of the base. That explains a lot of things said on both sides of the aisle, though at least on the left side of the aisle, I dare suggest that their actions prove they’re serious.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
For me the biggest issue is the extreme risk to our democracy. We came about as close to a coup as I am ever comfortable with. The fact that Trump is upset that he wasn’t able to overthrow the government to me, makes him one of the most dangerous men on the ballot.
[dgszweda]For me the biggest issue is the extreme risk to our democracy. We came about as close to a coup as I am ever comfortable with.
Yes, if Trump does somehow get the nomination and get elected again, which could certainly happen even when all or most of us on SI vote differently in the primaries, I suspect there will be yet another multi-year effort to subvert the elected leader that involves all levels of government including the DOJ, FBI, etc., to tie him to some conspiracy, maybe China this time instead of Russia, and remove him under false pretenses.
That is indeed a scary thought, but we can cross that bridge if we come to it.
Dave Barnhart
Ghilsane Maxwells list.
To clarify, my remark about feeling halfway good about it wasn’t sentimentalism. Feeling also applies to conscience, and in that sense, feelings matter in everything we do.
As for evaluating Trump “by his deeds,” people seem to be very selective about that. Breathtakingly selective. Words are deeds, too. Firing people for taking the ethical high road is a deed. Publicly attacking the character of everybody who disagrees with you is a deed. …and the whole stolen election hoax and events surrounding January 6. Deeds. All with consequences—since we’re so focused on those.
But, lest I be selective in looking at deeds myself, sure—better SCOTUS justices, better economic policy (in general—definitely not uniformly), better executive branch abortion policy and religious liberty policy, and the rapid development of Covid vaccines.
Do these outweigh the damage? It’s not easy to answer that because all of Trump’s accomplishments are in the realm of coercion—not in a bad sense, but they are rules and requirements. Nearly all of his damage is at a deeper level: principles, ideas, ethics, public discourse, trust in the rule of law, etc.
My own view is that he fed all the culture’s cancers and introduced new ones, while getting it to temporarily improve diet and exercise. It’s hard to see that as a big win.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Trump had his chance. He attacked our democratic institutions. He needs to shut up and go back to running his corrupt real estate empire.
But, since he’s Trump, he won’t.
So, it’s going to be Trump v. Biden again. And, Trump is going to lose again.
If he should get reelected, and the democrats keep / regain control of the house, there will be another impeachment (or two).
1. You talk as though the election was proper and that’s a foregone conclusion. The election was very close. Even if it was the only “corruption” present, the illegal and inappropriate use of absentee ballots probably turned it. If you’re too lazy to go vote, you shouldn’t. If you lack the foresight to request an absentee for yourself, you shouldn’t be voting. (That’s my opinion AND it’s historical voting, so to change it is to unbalance elections.)
2. Tons of stuff about Trump was simply manufactured. Russian collusion? That was the product of his political opponent. The level of hatred toward him is breathtaking.
3. The level of corruption in the current presidency is unbelievable. And the press does. not. care.
4. They’re going to pass off Biden’s failure as due to dementia. But it’s his stupid policies.
5. We need to STOP paying people not to work. I cannot hire people to work, and I’m offering new workers about what I paid experienced staff 4 years ago. I am constantly dealing with “supply chain” problems. Drugs on back-order, equipment and parts on back-order. Too many people are not working because they have been paid not to. When I say, “too many,” it isn’t a lot of people - it’s a small percent - but it is enough that it upsets the “market” for hiring. Everyone has to pay people more AND they can’t produce as much or serve as much. The market is more desperate for what is made. And every product costs more to make it. Those both raise the cost of services and products. It’s a cycle of inflation that will impoverish everyone if it isn’t stopped.
6. Trump is a self-centered, pompous, rude, self-indulgent, self-justifying, jerk. And maybe the best president in recent memory.
7. My wife, while she would vote for Trump, is REALLY hoping he doesn’t run again. I get that. There are several that I would kind of prefer to have on the “R” ticket JUST so that hopefully the irrational HATRED people have for Trump wouldn’t be a factor again and PERHAPS SI doesn’t have to become overloaded with abject stupidity. But, part of me also sees that as giving in to evil political opponents who are willing to lie, cheat, and murder (No, Epstein killed himself) to keep the swamp deep.
Trump will not be the Republican nominee in 2024, although his effort to become the nominee may split the Party and help Democrats. Modern major political parties do not renominate someone for the Presidency who lost before. Too expensive to take the risk again. Biden will not be the Democratic nominee. His cognitive ability will be worse in 2 years, and Democrats are already making it clear they do not want him to be the nominee. The Democrats do not have anyone who can be a competitive candidate, yet Republicans have several, such as DeSantis. I am well aware of Trump’s faults/sins, but if Clinton had won in 2016, Roe v Wade would still be standing precedent today, and other important decisions, such as First Amendment religion protections, would never have happened.
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
Dan,
You are probably flavored in your opinion. As am I probably.
1. The election wasn’t really close. It was 306 electoral votes to 232. It wasn’t way off, but I wouldn’t call it “very close”. There was no widespread voter fraud found. Not even Trump’s inner circle believed there was any substantial fraud. It was really just a pillow guy who believed it and a narcisit president who liked the idea.
2. Level of hatred? Trump got a large group of people to storm the capital looking to hang his vice president. I don’t remember any president who had that loyal of a group of people. Trumps lowest approval rating was 36.4% on December 16, 2017. Biden’s lowest approval rating is 36.0% on July 20,2022, and it continues to drop. The Democrats are even looking to get Biden off the ticket, his own party doesn’t like him so much.
3. Press doesn’t care? The mainstream press leans Republican and they have been brutal toward Biden, chasing after every little thing his son does…
4. I think both sides are touting the stupid policies of Biden. The Republicans stood pretty firmly with Trump, but the Democrats aren’t even standing next to Biden. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/05/biden-democrats-news…)
5. I agree on the stimulus programs. I didn’t like them when Trump started them and I don’t like them under Biden extending them.
6. I would say, for me personally, Trump was one of the worse presidents. I would say that Regan was miles away better than Trump. The only thing I will give Trump credit for was getting judges through, but that was more his administration and McConnell. Otherwise Trump was all over the place, saying one country was his friend and then two days later telling them they were stupid.
7. DeSantis is miles away better than Trump.
Again, just my opinions. I don’t think either president was/is very good. You have one who was dangerous because he didn’t know what he was doing, and another one dangerous because he can’t remembre what he is doing.
[dgszweda]…3. Press doesn’t care? The mainstream press leans Republican and they have been brutal toward Biden, chasing after every little thing his son does…
…
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After declaring Hunter’s laptop to be “Russian disinformation,” they continue to pretty much ignore the story.
Yeah, I’m flavored. But the flavors have shifted drastically. It was a Democrat who said, “Ask not what your country can do for you.” They left that thinking a LONG time ago and are squarely in the “Demand your country to do things for you” camp.
Fox leans Republican. CNN, MSNBC, and NPR lean socialist.
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One thing I do agree with: Trump was wrong to sign the “stimulus” payouts in early COVID. I get why he did it, politically. But it was a huge mistake.
“The only thing I will give Trump credit for was getting judges through, but that was more his administration and McConnell.” - If Trump had not been President, there would not have been an administration to find Constitutionally conservative Supreme Court nominees. Yes, McConnell deserves much more credit than he got for the new Justices during Trump’s term as President. But it WAS Trump’s term as President that allowed him to do that.
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
[Dan Miller]???????????????????????????????????????
After declaring Hunter’s laptop to be “Russian disinformation,” they continue to pretty much ignore the story.
Yeah, I’m flavored. But the flavors have shifted drastically. It was a Democrat who said, “Ask not what your country can do for you.” They left that thinking a LONG time ago and are squarely in the “Demand your country to do things for you” camp.
Fox leans Republican. CNN, MSNBC, and NPR lean socialist.
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One thing I do agree with: Trump was wrong to sign the “stimulus” payouts in early COVID. I get why he did it, politically. But it was a huge mistake.
There are hundreds and hundreds of stories about Biden’s laptop every month. The NY Post published 23 in June alone. Fox News has more viewers than CNN and MSNBC combined. In fact, Fox News holds the 7 top News Shows in the country and 9 of the top 10 for TV. 5 of the top 10 radio shows are conservative talk stations. The top online news shows are conservative. It is just the liberal stations that have ignored it. The flipside is that Trump brought his whole family into the White House, all with dubious ties to industry and leveraging their new status for personal gain. The liberal media and the various DOJ departments went after it. Some are still going after it. The conservative media (now the mainstream media) ignored it.
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