Maybe angry Christians should try chanting 'Pray for Biden' instead of 'Let's go Brandon'?

Do you acknowledge that the Democrat party has a policy for freer immigration to the USA from the southern border, especially from Central America?

Do they have a right to that policy?

Did they campaign on that policy?

Did they win the last election?
I assume you said yes to all those. So is it any surprise they are governing that way?

Is it illegal for them to govern the way they campaigned?

Do loopholes and policy gaps exist in pretty much every area of the law?

So is the execution of the laws by the party other than you in a way you do not like illegal?

Unless I am badly mistaken, the laws presently on the books require illegal immigrants to be apprehended, not turned lose with plane tickets to another part of the country. If Democrats don’t like the laws as written, they, just like Republicans, have the option to enact new laws. They have failed to do so for years, even when they could have without successful opposition. So the question is not what they prefer, but what they are obligated to do as those who are sworn to uphold the laws of the United States. The present situation is an all out assault upon the rule of law. If that doesn’t stop, there is no hope for the future of this country.

I think we are making simplistic assertions around immigration policy. Both sides continually claim that the other side is doing something illegal. The Democrats complain that the Republicans are taking illegal action. The Republicans complain that the Democrats are taking illegal action. One side or the other typically claims that the present situation is an assault on our democracy and that there is no hope for this country. This has gone on for decades upon decades. Most of the time the noise is directed to that party’s particular base. Most of the time the truth is somewhere in the middle. Trump had a disjointed immigration policy. Claiming he was going to do a lot, and in the end didn’t really do much. Biden is also disjointed and claim he is going to do much and doesn’t. If either of them really wanted to do something they would have passed laws. Someone said on this legislative branch makes laws. And that is partially true. What we have seen in the past century is a willingness of the legislative branch to give up its authority to the executive branch and allow the executive branch to rule by executive order. This is not one part or the other. Both parties do it extensively. Trump was entirely inept at working with the legislative branch and therefore ruled mostly by executive order. A key reason why Biden was able to overturn almost everything in his first week of office. Don’t worry, Obama and Biden were just as bad. If a president was truly capable of immigration reform, they would work with congress to craft laws and pass laws. The goal of a Republic is that we don’t a have Republican nation or a Democratic nation, but one in which we find middle ground and establish sensible laws. Having the borders shut entirely isn’t the answer and having them left wide open isn’t the answer.

The frustration that some of us have on this forum is not that we are defending Biden, but we are frustrated in everyone taking sound bites that craft headlines that Biden is breaking the law. Or that Biden has permanently ruined the nation. Or that Biden is a dictator. Come on people. Trump wasn’t truly any better.

Sorry, David, but the reason we have ~2 million border arrests, most of which have resulted in allowing the arrestees into the country, is that Biden is rightly seen as wanting to more or less open the borders, even flying tens of thousands to their destinations on chartered planes. In contrast, Trump augmented of built hundreds of miles of border wall, and apprehensions plunged during his term.

Neither perfectly upheld border laws—arguably the courts prevented that to a degree—but Trump arguably upheld to a far greater extent the notion that immigration ought to be subject to criminal background checks, need for workers, and thecost of welfare. What Biden is doing, moreover, goes way beyond legitimate prosecutorial discretion, being arguably a middle finger flipped at the law. It may not be legally actionable, but let’s not pretend that it’s just the same thing his predecessors did, because it goes far beyond that.

So if crime goes down and thus fewer are arrested, then when crime goes back up and more are arrested, we should cheer for the guy who implemented the policies that made the crime go up???

This is especially confusing when judges are appointed and prosecutors are given jobs where they are encouraged to let criminals go free or not prosecute them at all. Then those criminals go on to commit more crime and the same political party that was set on not discouraging their behavior also wants to defund the police- well not really defund them, but actually reduce the amount of police officers….

And then when the citizens of this country start to ask questions about it, they are told by the progressive media that they are racist. If it is pointed out that many who are asking about it are minorities, then they are told that they are simply encouraging white supremacy. If they keep asking questions then they are accused of supporting the loud mouth Trump whether they ever supported him or not.

When it is pointed out that progressives are the one who are rejecting the statement, “judge a man by the content of his character not the color of his skin,” and progressives are saying that we need to make judgments of others based on their race- whoever points that out is called a racist.

When progressives push for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition, and then call those who warn against such a move “fascist” we have it backwords.

When progressives say to follow the science and yet reject any science they disagree with while forcing others to follow the science they like and even silencing the data from the science they do not like, we have the makings of fascism. “A centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition” is fascism. Progressives who endorse such positions are calling those oppose such positions fascist.

That is part of the reason why so few Christians support the progressive movement.

Why is it so hard to understand that illegal immigration is, well, illegal? Most Christians that I know support legal immigration, and many favor increasing the number of legal immigrants. But what kind of people do you add to the US population who begin their first day in the US already guilty of breaking the law? What kind of country has the US become when the majority political party encourages law breaking?

Do you want a more open border? Pass laws that make entry without legal authorization legal, but don’t keep the present laws in place, and refuse to enforce them. The spirit of lawlessness in this country is growing, and can only damage our nation. Enforce the laws that exist, or change them to reflect what you prefer, but don’t refuse to enforce existing laws and encourage others to become law breakers. A nd don’t justify and make excuses for those who encourage breaking the law because they belong to your pet political party. Christians, more than anyone else should understand the need for law enforcement.

[G. N. Barkman]

Why is it so hard to understand that illegal immigration is, well, illegal? Most Christians that I know support legal immigration, and many favor increasing the number of legal immigrants. But what kind of people do you add to the US population who begin their first day in the US already guilty of breaking the law? What kind of country has the US become when the majority political party encourages law breaking?

Do you want a more open border? Pass laws that make entry without legal authorization legal, but don’t keep the present laws in place, and refuse to enforce them. The spirit of lawlessness in this country is growing, and can only damage our nation. Enforce the laws that exist, or change them to reflect what you prefer, but don’t refuse to enforce existing laws and encourage others to become law breakers. A nd don’t justify and make excuses for those who encourage breaking the law because they belong to your pet political party. Christians, more than anyone else should understand the need for law enforcement.

Again, this is not about what I want or you want. It’s about calling policy decisions we don’t agree with crimes. It’s about political barnstorming and pitchfork raising.

When your party looses the White House, the House, and the Senate, your policies are not going to implemented.

After I dropped my twins off at school I turned on Brian Kilmeade’s radio program. I used to listen to conservative talk radio a lot. I listened to Rush Limbaugh nearly every day for 30+ years. I used to love hearing about politics du jour and what the crazy libs were up to. Then he died. At the same time Trump went flat out nuts and called the 2020 election a farce, and called the kooks to go the Capitol on Jan 6 and raid the place. I was done. I turned off the radio. So, every now and then I do turn on just to see what I’ve missed, and its not much. A guest on the show whom I’ve never heard of was talking about all the lawsuits his law firm has filed against Biden’s presidency for violations of the law. It was around 100! That’s one law firm. How many others do like wise? Is this really legitimate? HE sure thought he was a hero, and so did Brian. I recall Sarah Palin resigned as governor of Alaska because she was being sued so much by Democrats she couldn’t see straight. This phenomena is what I am speaking against.

Police and Prosecutor selectively apply the law all the time! They make all kinds of decisions daily why they charge this and not that, and let that slide, and plead this down to a misdemeanor, or let that off with a warning, or just ignore that lane change without a signal….

So if crime goes down and thus fewer are arrested, then when crime goes back up and more are arrested, we should cheer for the guy who implemented the policies that made the crime go up???

This is especially confusing when judges are appointed and prosecutors are given jobs where they are encouraged to let criminals go free or not prosecute them at all. Then those criminals go on to commit more crime and the same political party that was set on not discouraging their behavior also wants to defund the police- well not really defund them, but actually reduce the amount of police officers….

When it comes to crime and criminal justice reform, sadly my fellow conservatives peddle a lot of misinformation, starting with how they frame the narrative about progressives (if we are equating progressives and democrats). only 36% of democrats favor defunding the police. The vast majority of democrats in congress were against defunding the police. It is only the far-left in congress (Bernie Sanders, the Squad, and etc…) that favored such extreme policies. In my city of Grand Rapids, where 70% of its people voted for Biden and 28% voted for Trump, almost none of the local politicians (all of whom are progressive democrats) favor defunding the police. When the annual budget for GRPD came up last year, GRPD actually got an increase in funding. Are there cities such as Portland, Seattle, NYC, Minneapolis, where the far-left fringe have more influence and power in this issue? Yes, but they are largely considered an embarrassment to my progressive democrat friends and even some of the far-left who supported defunding have had second thoughts, having seen the failures in Minneapolis and other cities. Even former NYC mayor DeBlasio had to reverse his decision from 2020 to defund the police to a large increase in 2021 when there was a large spike in violent crime.

As for policies and punishment, and criminal justice reform, conservatives aren’t any better. I wish conservative Christians would actually listen to groups such as Prison Fellowship or read Dr. Bradley’s “Ending Overcriminalization and Mass Incarceration.” They are much more Biblical and have solutions that actually reduce crime rather than the secular vengeance mentality that dominates so much of conservatism.

Breaking a law is the very definition of crime. Mark writes as though defining crimes is fluid. While it is true that not every infraction is clearly black or white, the notion that breaking the law is mostly a matter of perspective constitutes much of the problem that we are dealing with today. I have a few questions.

Is entering the country illegally a crime? Yes or no. Is aiding someone known to be in the country illegally to avoid arrest a crime? Yes or no. Is refusing to prosecute law-breakers because you do not agree with the law a crime? Yes or no.

Let’s quit beating around the bush. Breaking laws is always a crime. Laws with which we do not agree are still laws until they are changed legislatively. Refusing to obey or to enforce laws is a crime. If we do not return to a law and order society, there is little hope for the future of our country.

[G. N. Barkman]

Breaking a law is the very definition of crime. Mark writes as though defining crimes is fluid. While it is true that not every infraction is clearly black or white, the notion that breaking the law is mostly a matter of perspective constitutes much of the problem that we are dealing with today. I have a few questions.

I said no such thing!

What I have said is that prosecuters and police apply laws broadly. The law says some area is a 35 mph speed zone. Do the police pull over every person who violates that rule? No. Do they ticket everyone they do pull over? Do judges often dismiss tickets that are challenged? Yes. Do people OFTEN hire lawyers to get their driving record expunged? Yes. So there are lots of ways with dealing with “crimes.”

When it comes to illegal immigration, Republicans want the rules enforced one way. Democrats want another. It is not criminal that Democrats and Republicans differ, yet in the name of winning political battles BOTH SIDES are willing to throw the other in court over interpretation. Its absurd.

That is what I am saying gentlemen.

I am not talking about crimes and whether people can commit them with impunity.

I am talking about politics. I am talking about Democrats spending Trump’s 4 years trying to find ways to accuse him and his staff of committing crimes. Then Republican do exactly the same thing.

Illegal immigration has become a similar battle ground. Republicans think everything Democrats are doing is illegal. Throw’em in jail! Meanwhile spitting out doom and gloom about the end of America unless the borders are closed. Earlier, Democrats were accusing Republicans of keeping kids locked up in cages like animals… why? To win some political battle.

This is what I am referring to when I write on this thread.

[Joel Shaffer]

When it comes to crime and criminal justice reform, sadly my fellow conservatives peddle a lot of misinformation, starting with how they frame the narrative about progressives (if we are equating progressives and democrats). only 36% of democrats favor defunding the police.

The word “misinformation” is used as a bludgeon - just like “racist” - to intimidate the opposing side into apologizing or withdrawing from the argument. It’s a little disheartening, but not surprising being used on this platform, but since the standard has been set, let’s talk about the misinformation represented in the above statement.

I know I’m not speaking for everyone, but as a conservative, I don’t equate progressives and democrats. I’m not sure how many conservatives would equate progressives with democrats. Progressives are generally a subset of the democrat party, so assuming that conservatives would do this is irresponsible and unfair.

Having said that, while “only 36% of democrats favor defunding the police” now, that’s down from 52% in June 2020 according to this Hill article. This context is critical. Democrat support for defunding the police hasn’t been static at 36%. I’m not going to say that was, you know, “misin….” but this context, ignored by Joel above, is critical. Why would that be? Joel, you touched on it in your post. They saw the fruits of their dysfunctional policies firsthand. Did they change their minds because they actually care for their communities? Or did they pragmatically change their minds because they saw the writing on the wall and realized that they’re facing an electoral bloodbath in November 2022? According to this Hill article, only 28% of a core Democrat constituency - black respondents, on behalf of whom white liberals claimed to act - favor defunding the police. If Democrats lose the black vote, it’s all over for them.

[Mark_Smith]

When it comes to illegal immigration, Republicans want the rules enforced one way. Democrats want another.

Here’s the crux of the issue. In a nutshell, when it comes to illegal immigration, conservatives (not necessarily Republicans) want the rules enforced. Period. Not “one way.” We want existing law enforced. Most Democrats don’t.

I can’t state it any more simply or unequivocally.