Will Gender Chaos Close Our Camps or Affect Youth Ministry?
What will happen when campers at a Christian camp are influenced by other campers with gender dysphoria? Or when a biological boy registers as a girl and vice-versa? Will churches be able to escape federal mandates based upon our convictions, or will we be forced to play along or be closed?
This concern has been going through my mind, and I am wondering about the future of age-segregated ministry, particularly ministry that involves youth outside the church. But these issues can arise inside the church as well. Are we up fo fighting lawsuits?
According to USA Today:
One of the biggest headlines in the 2020 poll is the emergence of Generation Z adults, those 18 to 23: 1 in 6, or 15.9%, identify as LGBTQ. In each older generation, LGBTQ identification is lower, including 2% or less of respondents born before 1965.
If 16% of young adults identify as LGBTQ, and every generation is significantly more so than the previous, this is going to be a big challenge. If about 1 out of 6 young people so identify, can Christian camps survive? Or will they have to be turned into family camps. How ill this impact our youth groups and other ministries?
Poll Results
Will Gender Chaos Close Our Camps or Affect Youth Ministry?
Yes, our camps and some other youth ministries will be affected very soon. Votes: 6
Yes, camps etc., will be affected, but it will be at least 3 years away. Votes: 1
Yes, eventually, but not soon. Votes: 0
No, Christian camps will be able to work around this via better screening of campers. Votes: 1
No, this is a sociological blip that will pass. Votes: 0
No: there will be court battles, but in the end Christian camping will thrive or at least survive. Votes: 1
Yes and no, depending upon the region. Votes: 4
Other Votes: 1
- 4 views
….on whether the Democrats pass their mis-named “Equality Act” (meaning “all have rights except the religious and traditionally minded”), and whether it’s upheld in the courts. Given that Senator Collins of Maine foolishly voted to confirm Xavier Becerra as secretary of HHS after he weaponized the California AG office against traditionalists, my guess is that the bill will be passed, but will be modified heavily by court action.
Pray that Chief Justice Roberts remembers to bring his copy of the 1st Amendment with him when he drives the Supreme Court Decision about this law.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Bert Perry wrote:
It depends….on whether the Democrats pass their mis-named “Equality Act” (meaning “all have rights except the religious and traditionally minded”), and whether it’s upheld in the courts.
Suppose it doesn’t pass. If more than 16% of youth identify as LGBTQ, do you want kids in camp with some of these?
"The Midrash Detective"
If the kids will agree to camp rules (as much as any kid does I guess), why not? We might do well to remember that we’ve probably got some there already, and if they’re overt in who they are, that’s actually a better deal than them coming in quietly. No?
Workers is a little bit tougher, but if they’re truly committed to celibacy, maybe even that’s permissible.
Regarding the numbers, I think this is (a) strong evidence of the power of suggestion, (b) clear evidence that it’s not innate for at least a strong majority, and (c) with regards to those born before 1965, tragic evidence that HIV and other plagues on homosexuals/etc.. have put a lot of them in an early grave.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Bert wrote:
If the kids will agree to camp rules (as much as any kid does I guess), why not?
That is a valid viewpoint. I guess some of this depends on camp rules.
Suppose there was a girl who dressed as a boy and wanted to be in the boy’s dorm because she (or whatever the pronoun) identified as a male. Would you say, “You must bunk and shower with the girls and dress like a girl?” How would you handle it. Or if they had surgery.
"The Midrash Detective"
My take is that the camp simply has a rule that your housing and clothing corresponds with your DNA and “factory equipment”. Problem solved, well, at least if Congress doesn’t mess it up, which isn’t something we can assume.
If they’ve had surgery….that’s tougher, since kids definitely don’t understand. Maybe separate housing with a family? They still need Christ, no?
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
I don’t think that either the 16% of young people or the 2% of the aged are totally representative—I’m guessing closer to 3-5% overall.
For the old, AIDS and other maladies have killed a huge portion of them. I had a friend in grad school who showed me the obituaries of his (homosexual) friends who’d died of AIDS—it was sobering, and sadly, he joined them in a few years.
For the young, I’m guessing a lot of them are such because it’s now fashionable—and when that fashion or its attraction passes, so will the identification. I’m going to guess it’s going to do a number on the hypothesis of innate homosexuality if anyone’s allowed to look at the data.
The side note is that maybe camps and schools ought to be part of getting people to this point. One way I phrase it when I’m asked questions like this is something to the effect of “well, you know the Corinthians managed to minister to a city in the throes of the promiscuous prostitution to Aphrodite, as did the Ephesians….maybe we ought to consider how they might have done it instead of trying to isolate ourselves from this opportunity.”
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Bert wrote:
well, you know the Corinthians managed to minister to a city in the throes of the promiscuous prostitution to Aphrodite, as did the Ephesians….maybe we ought to consider how they might have done it instead of trying to isolate ourselves from this opportunity.
I agree. But they didn’t isolate their youth from the rest of the family. They didn’t minister via youth camps.
"The Midrash Detective"
[Ed Vasicek]Bert wrote:
well, you know the Corinthians managed to minister to a city in the throes of the promiscuous prostitution to Aphrodite, as did the Ephesians….maybe we ought to consider how they might have done it instead of trying to isolate ourselves from this opportunity.
I agree. But they didn’t isolate their youth from the rest of the family. They didn’t minister via youth camps.
Ya know, since the ancients turned over the Roman empire without resorting to youth camps….maybe they’ve got something to teach us there, too, eh? I don’t mean to totally pan the notion of youth camps, and I’m not going to the extent of the old “Vision Forum family centered church”, but I would dare suggest that the ancients have something to teach us. Maybe a good look in the Church Fathers or something would be of value.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Discussion