Beth Moore leaves SBC, ends publishing deal with LifeWay

This has nothing to do with Trump or Trumpism. This is about women’s roles in the church. It was inevitable for Beth Moore to leave the SBC over this.

Male leadership of the church is not the problem. Unethical and immoral male leadership in the church is the problem. Too many men cover up these crimes and sins. I don’t know why. other than what I have observed in my 29 years in the church. Almost all (yes I mean that) men I have encountered in the church are either cowards or they value the “coolness” factor over everything else. What matters is how big a bass boat a guy has. Does he have a fishing pond? Do we bbq all Saturday hanging out? Is he personally charismatic? How much money does he give to the church?

If those boxes are checked that is enough for them and the guy can do no wrong. There is by and large NO INTEREST in the biblical knowledge of the guy, or his academic prowess, or how much he reads. How much he prays. How well does he really teach? Not fluff the amen corner, but dig in and teach deep.

So most churches I have attended are giant social clubs at heart. That is the problem.

Tragic that some in the SBC will use the issue of abuse to justify female pastoral positions. Failure of male leadership leads to growth of pastoral theological error.

I haven’t really been following. What is she claiming exactly with reference to what you said?

….but it is correlated with the fact that those who did the worst job dealing with issues of sexual assault also are the most likely to have supported Trump in the primaries, or to support Trump in the general. Now in the general, I had the choice between a man credibly accused of sexual harassment and a woman who covered up for her husband’s serial sexual harassment—seeing about the same moral climate for both, I chose the person whose policies more closely matched mine. I’m grateful for the judges and immigration enforcement, not so grateful for his Twitter feed and destruction of the Georgia Senate races.

Regarding Moore in particular, there is something of a battle royale going on between the old guard and younger theologians (younger meaning forties or fifties) who see the pattens of the past and want to correct this. Moore is, by leaving, casting in her lot with the latter and working to shame SBC functionaries into action.

I posted this on social media yesterday, after I linked to the Moore article and expressed sympathy for her. I received messages from two acquaintances saying they were “concerned” about me:

I recently linked to an article about Beth Moore leaving the Southern Baptist Convention due to constant attacks against her motives, intentions and character as a woman who has taught the bible to other women for decades. One commentator, a Baptist fundamentalist, said he was “concerned” about where I was headed, and suggested I was “dining with the devil.” Ironically, this reaction illustrates the very problem which prompted Beth Moore to leave the SBC in the first place. The SBC is caught in the throes of its own nascent neo-fundamentalist movement, wherein allegations of “critical race theory” and “wokeness” (two troubling things, where they ACTUALLY EXIST) are the new boogeymen. The SBC’s internal struggles are reminiscent of the fundamentalist-modernist controversy of yesteryear; the one too many Baptist fundamentalists think they’re still fighting.

[josh p]

I haven’t really been following. What is she claiming exactly with reference to what you said?

Read the article. The main focus of it is that Moore was in some hot water with people in the SBC, then she started speaking against Trump and the dam broke.

Also, mentions her objections to sexual assault cover-up in regards to the SBC relying too much on male leadership.

I only knew of Beth Moore from a distance but I’ve been following her on Twitter for quite a while now and she has been a model of Christ-likeness and humility. The issues that she has been pointing to needed to be addressed and her seeming commitment to scripture and willingness to speak boldly, combined with the previously mentioned humility, makes her a voice that we should want to be heard. Instead, I’ve seen a whole lot of response similar to the one Tyler mentioned. May God help us to let go of that foolishness.

[Mark_Smith]

josh p wrote:

I haven’t really been following. What is she claiming exactly with reference to what you said?

Read the article. The main focus of it is that Moore was in some hot water with people in the SBC, then she started speaking against Trump and the dam broke.

Also, mentions her objections to sexual assault cover-up in regards to the SBC relying too much on male leadership.

I read it. Doesn’t say too much about weak pastors. The article references her distaste for Christian nationalism and, among other things, support for Trump. Those things bother me too but I can’t see leaving her denomination over it.

As far as the sexual assault allegations go, if there have been cover ups (which I’m not doubting, just not clear on), good for her for speaking out and I would leave too.

[josh p]

Mark_Smith wrote:

josh p wrote:

I haven’t really been following. What is she claiming exactly with reference to what you said?

Read the article. The main focus of it is that Moore was in some hot water with people in the SBC, then she started speaking against Trump and the dam broke.

Also, mentions her objections to sexual assault cover-up in regards to the SBC relying too much on male leadership.

I read it. Doesn’t say too much about weak pastors. The article references her distaste for Christian nationalism and, among other things, support for Trump. Those things bother me too but I can’t see leaving her denomination over it.

As far as the sexual assault allegations go, if there have been cover ups (which I’m not doubting, just not clear on), good for her for speaking out and I would leave too.

There is more than one article linked to in the OP. Read the one for Christianity Today. It goes more into male leadership. Its nothing new though.

Here is one website’s report on her net worth. Any comments or, once again, is it only pastor’s who can’t make money and accumulate wealth?

Here is a link to an open letter she wrote that was the genesis of much of this.

https://blog.lproof.org/2018/05/a-letter-to-my-brothers.html

[Mark_Smith]

Here is one website’s report on her net worth.

How would they know? And who cares?!

[Mark_Smith]

Here is one website’s report on her net worth. Any comments or, once again, is it only pastor’s who can’t make money and accumulate wealth?

It’s not really about overall wealth, but rather about how it is obtained, and how it is to be used. Pastor or otherwise, is the organization run by independent individuals for the board, and what does the person intend to do with their wealth? Is it needed for a reasonable lifestyle, or are they “crowning themselves king”? When they die, what is their plan for what’s left over? Are the recipients able to handle that amount of wealth without self-destructing, etc..?

Overall, there’s a lot of good room between poverty and conspicuous consumption where we can reasonably go.

[Jim]

Mark_Smith wrote:

Here is one website’s report on her net worth.

How would they know? And who cares?!

Well Jim, you know I love you, but there has been more than one thread on this here blog about how John MacArthur is some kind of hypocrite because he owns a couple of real estate properties in SoCal. Now, every time some Christian leader pops up, I check how much they make and have in the bank. So if JMac is bad for owning a couple of properties, what about Beth Moore? Her work is purely ministry. Does she get a pass?

How do they know? Depends upon the quality of the site. Some are more careful then others. They use publicly available data from reports and contracts to estimate. Beth Moore has sold a ton of books, and spoke at lots of big conferences. If all she made was a dime on each book she’d be worth millions.

In the rush to affirm Beth Moore and her “battle” with the “outdated” SBC leadership, don’t forget her acceptance of extra-Biblical revelation, which she uses to justify some of her beliefs.