Evangelical leaders condemn Capitol protest violence: 'Dangerous for our republic'
“Conservative evangelical supporters of President Donald Trump have condemned the violence that broke out at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday afternoon, describing it as ‘dangerous for our republic’ and un-American.” - CPost
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[dcbii]Without justifying a single thing you just mentioned, you do realize that with a crowd the size of the one you can see in the videos it would be entirely possible to be in a completely peaceful group/section and not see any of that, right? Any time there is a large crowd, the dynamics and emotions of that many people can cause a lot of things to happen. We have to dispense with the idea that being in a public place and taking part in a legal demonstration includes taking part in anything illegal or morally wrong that may have happened by others who were nowhere near where you were. (But of course, the press certainly extends that to anyone taking place in leftist demonstrations, whether they were peaceful or not.)
None of that means it was a good idea to be there. While I have my questions about election irregularities, I can’t see any really good reason that the rally planned for last Wednesday would have really accomplished anything, and with emotions so high, it would have been a good rally to avoid. Even if I attended rallies normally (I don’t — I can count the number of political rallies I’ve attended in my >50 years on one hand), I would definitely pick them better than this.
As I stated in my original post: Your friend was fortunate that he wasn’t caught up in the violence. That part seems to be missing when you quoted me above. I didn’t say or imply that the friend did anything illegal.
is no answer either. In America God has blessed you with the freedom to vote and determine your government. You need to work in the system as best you can. Staying home and complaining helps no one.
I will also ask the question I have asked of Aaron multiple times and never got an answer. Now I ask everyone. If Trump was so bad you could not vote for him because of his sinful nature and his attitude, name the last presidential candidate you voted for who passed the “not too sinful” test?
The Psalm I read this morning in my daily reading:
Arise, O LORD, do not let man prevail; Let the nations be judged before Thee.
Put them in fear, O LORD; Let the nations know that they are but men. (Psa 9:19-20 NAS)
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
Last summer we saw multiple left leaning protests turn violent. We even have pictures of DC in flames. Businesses were burned, people were beat up, items were stolen. This happened at protest after protest and most democrats in leadership refused to condemn it and many encouraged it to continue (again, see the link to Kamala Harris’ words). As this continued to happen, traditional media constantly reported on these events as mostly peaceful- even as buildings could be seen burning in the background.
On the other hand, right leaning protests have been known for years for picking up their own garbage. I am sad they have lost that reputation in this one rally. Those who went too far did that to them- not the whole group. At the same time we have seen universal condemnation of the activities of the rabble from both right leaning media and republican elected officials. They did not have to be prompted to condemn it, it came immediately. The reality of the depravity of man continues to sadden me, but we should be encouraged when we see the proper reaction to that depravity.
As far as Trump and his role. I do not think he should have held the rally at such a time as this. I was actually afraid that it would have been even worse- especially after what we saw last summer with BLM and Antifa. If even 0.10% decided to cause trouble it would make headlines. The worst I have seen from Trumps words that day, was his call for a show of strength. As I read the fuller context of his statement, however, it was clear that he was calling for a show of strength from our elected officials as they did their job in the capital and that he wanted the crowd to encourage them to show strength. He then encouraged them to do so peacefully.
I do not see that as impeachable. What I do see is the danger of even holding a rally on a day like that, but our constitution protects such a right. When Trump came out with a video telling the protesters to stop and go home, that was blocked and taken down so the protesters were not even allowed to see it. Who was preventing the deescalation at that point?
To Larry for digging up the portion of evangelicals who appear to have voted for Trump in the primaries. That’s what I was getting at with “plenty”, and I appreciate his work at digging up real numbers.
Regarding the question of voting for flawed candidates, I’d again argue that not only is that an inevitability given human sin nature, but perhaps worse yet, the pattern of refusing to vote for someone given “x unforgiveable flaw” is a big part of why our elections get so nasty. Each side is trying to fish for the right set of unforgiveable flaws that will, if not inducing people to vote for a good candidate, would induce them not to vote for the opponent.
The end result is that our mindset is inducing us to select for slanderers and rogues in politics—people who will say and do just about anything to get into office. And here we are.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Ken S]As I stated in my original post: Your friend was fortunate that he wasn’t caught up in the violence. That part seems to be missing when you quoted me above. I didn’t say or imply that the friend did anything illegal.
No, but the way you stated it immediately after quoting the explanation came off condescending and lecturing, like a parent to a wayward teen who didn’t understand the seriousness of what he had done. I.e. “You might have been there peacefully, but you should have known that it would turn into a riot.” As I said in my response, I don’t think it showed the greatest wisdom to be there (in my estimation), but in no way could he have known that such things would happen (and apparently around him, they didn’t).
Thankfully, I’ve never attended a large concert or sporting event where there ended up being a stampede that got people killed while trying to exit quickly. But if I expected any such event to have the possibility to end in that way, even if only a very few have proportionally, I’d never be able to go at all, and I don’t think in that way. Seeing as how 4 years of normal Trump rallies have taken place without people getting killed, or his supporters overrunning and vandalizing a building (that I’ve heard of), I think it’s quite reasonable to have not thought that such would happen in Washington on January 6th.
Dave Barnhart
[G. N. Barkman]If those who voted for Trump are responsible for everything Trump said and did, then those who voted for Biden (or failed to try to defeat Biden), must be equally responsible for everything that comes out of Washington over the next four years.
Comment of the day.
Dave Barnhart
1. Character matters a lot more than i thought it did.
2. Almost any conservative Republican could have accomplished the good things that Trump accomplished.
3. Trump’s name calling was amusing in the primaries but then I realized that he is a bully and the tactic so angered Democrats that they turned out in droves to vote, it also turned off the neutral voters who decide elections.
4.Like all ego maniacs, trump turns on anyone he sees as disloyal, even his SCOTUS appointees and his VP.
5. His lies incited his loyal followers to attempt to undue the constitutional method of electing a president.
6. The stain of Wednesday will be on all conservatives and Christians for a long time, even if we were not a part of it. The opposition has a broad brush and Wednesday gave them a lot of paint.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
[Ron Bean] The stain of Wednesday will be on all conservatives and Christians for a long time, even if we were not a part of it. The opposition has a broad brush and Wednesday gave them a lot of paint.
Think of this. The party that supports abortion, infanticide, gay marriage, et cetera … has siezed the moral “high ground” over the GOP!
Ron, I agree with most of your comments, but I question # 2. It’s all speculation, of course, since nobody knows what another President might have done, but I’ve seen no evidence in my life time of a Conservative President (Ronald Reagan may be the only other one) accomplishing anything close to what Trump accomplished. That’s a major reason many supported him. Not because he was a saint, but because he seemed to be able to get things done that no other president could do.
G. N. Barkman
With regards to whether any other conservative could have done what Trump did, well, of course we won’t get to run the control experiment, so I dunno. My overall take is that Trump figured out how to get around the MSM, and he also figured out how to make the populist case to the blue collar classes of the country.
I’ve got the hope that Republicans can figure out how to keep that without the insults and the manure spreader in overdrive that was too often President Trump. Well, that, and also a hefty dose of libertarianism that this country desperately needs to overcome the tens of trillions of bucks worth of debt that we have.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Jim’s last post makes an excellent point.
Wally Morris
Huntington, IN
[Jim]Think of this. The party that supports abortion, infanticide, gay marriage, et cetera … has siezed the moral “high ground” over the GOP!
Jim, that had nothing to do with Wednesday. Maybe you didn’t realize it until Thursday, but it happened long before then, at least in the minds of “most” (50.1%) of Americans. To “most” Americans, it is good to allow a woman to “control her body” if she gets pregnant. To “most” Americans sex with any one who will let you is a good thing… if a pregnancy happens, end it, no biggie. To “most” Americans, “love” will win and so gay marriage is a good thing. To “most” Americans, its all about perceived “fairness” so anyone should be able to enter America. To “most” Americans, the medical insurance and hospital bill system is broken, and only the government can fix it. To “most” Americans racism is prevalent in America in everything that goes on here. I can go on and on. Those things are the “new morality”.
Those are the reasons the Democrat have seized the high ground.
Moral high ground?
Did You Notice the Jan 6 Crowd Cheered When Trump Touted Harsher Penalties for Monument-Trashers?
In 2021, morality is gay marriage, open immigration, free community college, free healthcare, abortion to anyone who wants it, minority rights, trashing George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and even Abraham Lincoln, denouncing America’s history, legalized marijuana…
The notion that morality is loving God, self-restraint, loving your family, “love” in the traditional sense, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness… is gone from most Americans.
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