Evangelical leaders condemn Capitol protest violence: 'Dangerous for our republic'

“Conservative evangelical supporters of President Donald Trump have condemned the violence that broke out at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday afternoon, describing it as ‘dangerous for our republic’ and un-American.” - CPost

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Discussion

My hope is that he does one honorable thing in his life and resigns from office.

Should Senator/Vice President elect Harris also resign since she insited multiple riots last year? I do not think Trump was wise to hold his rally when things are so contentious but that is not the same as encouraging more rioting. If you do not know what I am talking about watch the video I linked above. Maxine waters, and Speaker Polosi are also in the clip and are clearly crossing a line that Trump did not cross (that doesn’t mean we should not be critical of Trump, but if we call for him to resign, we should have called for them to resign long ago, and if Trump is impeached over the DC rally, then why will they not also be impeached?)

The only “shocked” comment was from Andy, who seems to have stated so after THoward made his comment.

Trump has always spoken carelessly when not reading from a script. His careless words Wednesday motivated frustrated and suspicious people to violent action. He is responsible. Impeachment, however, is a waste of time, promoted by people who have wanted to destroy Trump before he took office. As usual, Trump has given them the ammunition they need.

The good results of his administration are now forgotten by the events of last week. The political left will now use this to accelerate their own agendas, and many people will be sympathetic to their agenda who previously would not have been so sympathetic.

Those who are pre-mil and pre-trib understand, in theory, that America and much of the world must change in order for the political, economic, and social systems to be in place for an antichrist to assume power. We are seeing those changes happen before our eyes.

This entire situation is like one of Shakespeare’s tragedies, except this is very real.

Wally Morris
Huntington, IN

Trump’s recent actions have left egg all over the faces of nearly everyone who supported him. Few probably expected it to go to the present extreme, but none should be terribly surprised. He has shown himself to be a very flawed individual, but his character defects have proven to be greater than most could have imagined.

I realize that a certain measure of “I told you so” is warranted, but you might want to tread lightly. There will be plenty of “I told you so” moments ahead for those who warned about the dangers of failing to keep Biden and the Democrats out of office. As bad as the present Capitol fiasco is, it may pale in comparison with the horrors that are likely looming over the next several months of unchecked Democratic rule.

G. N. Barkman

I do think we should impeach and remove politicians who encourage protests which broke out into destructive riots that resulted in people getting killed, absolutely.

Let’s start with Kamala Harris, who did exactly that regarding the George Floyd/BLM protests/riots. Yes, she tried to parse things out and say she was only in favor of the protests, not the riots, but….let’s be serious here, the riots started within hours of the protests starting, so in effect, yes, she did encourage the riots. The media tried to obscure this by saying that most of the protest was nonviolent, but that said, only a small minority of the Trump supporters were violent, either. And really, arguing that “most of the protest was nonviolent” is akin to saying “Apart from that, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”.

Sauce for the goose….

I’m no fan of the march on Washington to support Trump, because quite frankly a lot of it was predicated on what can only politely be called nonsense evidence. That said, Democrats have been averting their eyes from riots—Occupy, BLM, “Anti”-Fa, and anti-Kavanaugh—for about two decades now, so it’s just precious to hear them clutching their pearls and heading for the fainting couch now that the riot isn’t people who would be voting for them.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Joe, your leaving “the evangelical church” (whatever that means, exactly), is telling. It indicates that politics is more important to you than the gospel of Christ. Perhaps that’s why it is nearly impossible for you to truly understand what many evangelical Christians are actually saying. You continue to impugn actions and motives which are foreign to their thinking, and which have been clearly articulated on SI. Yet it makes little difference to you. You assume what you prefer to believe. To a born again Christian, the gospel of Christ is of first importance. Everything else is secondary.

G. N. Barkman

In my experience, much of the evangelical church ( and especially fundamentalists) has put politics above the gospel.

That is a valid concern, but that does not negate the fact that on SI “Never Trumpers” have made voting for Trump an issue to divide over while Trump voters have not.

[JD Miller] That is a valid concern, but that does not negate the fact that on SI “Never Trumpers” have made voting for Trump an issue to divide over while Trump voters have not.

JD, I don’t know what defines someone as a “never Trumper,” but I’m an elder at a church full of people who voted for Trump. In my mind, one’s support for Trump isn’t an issue that requires separation. It is, however, an issue that requires teaching, rebuke, correction, and training in righteousness. Christians need to understand that political pragmatism is a fool’s gambit. Neither the gospel nor the kingdom is advanced by getting into bed and supporting politicians like Trump. In fact, I would imagine that most Americans now believe gospel-believing Christians = Trump supporters. So does this political marriage with Trump now help or hinder our gospel proclamation? The answer is obvious (Matt 5:13).

Instead, the way forward for Christians who remain in the Republican party is to demand / vote for politicians who are 1) people of good character*, 2) people who are qualified to serve, and 3) people who advance the issues important to us. Trump would never have won the primaries without substantial Christian support. If the Republican party puts up a candidate who doesn’t meet these three qualifications, Christians should refuse to vote for them. Period. It doesn’t matter who the Democratic candidate is. The Republican party will either listen to what we want in a candidate, or the Republican party will lose elections. Either way, Christians will be the needed salt and light that God commands us to be.

*By good character, I do not mean the person has to be a believer or has to be “above reproach” in the Scriptural sense. Are they an honest, respectable, and reasonable person who treats others like they would like to be treated?

[T Howard]

In my mind, one’s support for Trump isn’t an issue that requires separation. It is, however, an issue that requires teaching, rebuke, correction, and training in righteousness.

I’d love to be a fly on the wall in your church as you teach, rebuke, correct, and train your “church full of people who voted for Trump” that every one of them was wrong and made “unrighteous” choices in the one they voted for. My pastor voted 3rd party, but he also understands that what is taught at church is not about politics (including talking about the people we voted for), and he stays away from that, except for once each election year admonishing people to vote (never saying whom) to exercise their ability to be salt and light.

I could easily see my pastor teaching one or more messages about character, but if he thought he was going to teach, rebuke, correct, and train those of the congregation that voted for Trump that they were wrong, deluded, etc. (and the same for Biden), I suspect our particular church wouldn’t be long for this world. Those of us in my church do not want “American politics” to be what church is about, and we hear enough politics in the news and other places like here. Thankfully, I don’t hear it from the pulpit, and if I did (and it was more than just an aberration), I would be one of the first exiting.

Dave Barnhart

I’d love to be a fly on the wall in your church as you teach, rebuke, correct, and train your “church full of people who voted for Trump” that every one of them was wrong and made “unrighteous” choices in the one they voted for. My pastor voted 3rd party, but he also understands that what is taught at church is not about politics (including talking about the people we voted for), and he stays away from that, except for once each election year admonishing people to vote (never saying whom) to exercise their ability to be salt and light.

I could easily see my pastor teaching one or more messages about character, but if he thought he was going to teach, rebuke, correct, and train those of the congregation that voted for Trump that they were wrong, deluded, etc. (and the same for Biden), I suspect our particular church wouldn’t be long for this world. Those of us in my church do not want “American politics” to be what church is about, and we hear enough politics in the news and other places like here. Thankfully, I don’t hear it from the pulpit, and if I did (and it was more than just an aberration), I would be one of the first exiting.

Amen. I try to keep politics out of the pulpit. Here on SI, I repeatedly call for grace towards those who vote differently then others. Still there are some on SI that have taken it upon themselves to be extremely judgmental toward those who vote differently than they do. Ironically they are often the ones who say there is too much politics in the church.

[dcbii] I’d love to be a fly on the wall in your church as you teach, rebuke, correct, and train your “church full of people who voted for Trump” that every one of them was wrong and made “unrighteous” choices in the one they voted for. My pastor voted 3rd party, but he also understands that what is taught at church is not about politics (including talking about the people we voted for), and he stays away from that, except for once each election year admonishing people to vote (never saying whom) to exercise their ability to be salt and light.

I just preached from Isaiah 11:1-10 about our returning king’s righteous rule and renewed creation. In part of my sermon, I compared and contrasted the person and future rule of Jesus Christ with the character and leadership of our political leaders. Quite frankly, I don’t have to mention Trump by name to communicate what God says about human leaders like him. For example,

  1. Jesus Christ delights in the fear of the Lord and is obedient to the will of the Father (v. 3a). Human leaders delight in themselves and follow conspiracy theories, focus groups, and opinion polls.
  2. Jesus Christ judges all people equitably and righteously (vv. 3b-4a). Human leaders judge based on their own bias and prejudice, and create / maintain systems that perpetuate prejudice and injustice.
  3. Jesus Christ brings judgment on the wicked (v. 4b). Human leaders pardon their friends and the well-connected and over police the poor.
  4. Jesus Christ is a ruler with integrity and faithfulness toward God (v. 5). Human leaders are often morally corrupt politicians, who lie, cheat, and steal to get and keep their positions of power.

I, too, try to keep politics and patriotism out of the pulpit in that I won’t endorse a particular candidate or speak disparagingly about political leaders just because they are democrats.

That being said, I am happy to engage anyone one-on-one about this issue and express to them why voting for Trump was a terrible choice for Christians to make. If that causes them to leave the church, so be it. I’m not here to tickle their ears and make them feel warm and fuzzy about their poor choices.

My pastoral prayer this morning was a rebuke to Christian Nationalism in light of the evil events at the Capitol this past week. My comments begin here, and run for perhaps seven minutes.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.

[T Howard]

That being said, I am happy to engage anyone one-on-one about this issue and express to them why voting for Trump was a terrible choice for Christians to make. If that causes them to leave the church, so be it. I’m not here to tickle their ears and make them feel warm and fuzzy about their poor choices.

I don’t need my pastor to make me feel “warm and fuzzy” about my choices, and I’m quite capable of reasoned disagreement with other Christians without getting offended. That said, there’s a world of difference between one-on-one interaction expressing to me why my vote was supposedly a terrible choice, and being “trained” and “corrected” by the one I’m speaking with. I can (and have and do) disagree with my pastor on various issues, and we discuss some of those in personal conversations. If that disagreement all of a sudden turned toward “if you don’t accept correction from me on this, you’re unrepentant, etc.,” that’s what would start turning me toward the door, at least in the absence of direct scripture and valid arguments from such showing me where I was wrong. I’m hardly the giant that Martin Luther was, but I very much employ his method of expecting the combination of scripture and reason to show me where I’m wrong before acquiescing.

So far, I’ve yet to see the convincing argument that voting for less evil is worse than either voting for more, or by inaction, allowing more. I get that other men see this differently, but I’m not going to accept a high-handed “training and correction” from anyone on this without a lot better arguments and use of scripture than I have seen to this point. It doesn’t take a genius to see that neither of the choices we had was for a righteous ruler, so while I would agree that Isaiah 11:1-10 is important, and I can’t see any immediate disagreement with the points in your post, it’s not like we had a choice of David vs. Saul in this election. (Plus, I’d guess that there were a number of points during David’s reign where righteous men would question the character of the man on the throne, especially when he made choices that led to insurrection or got thousands of men killed by other sinful choices.)

I don’t know about your church, but in ours, we also have disagreements with each other and the pastors during deacon’s meetings (shocker, eh?). However, because all of those present are men that want the best for God’s church and his people, and we want to be wise and careful in how we act, it never turns personal (or hasn’t yet, anyway), and we can disagree while still being Christian brothers, and move forward with an action plan we can all accept, even if not every single one of us agree. If 100% agreement were required for every decision, I could not serve, and would have to step down, and I would apply that to 100% agreement with every word that comes from the pulpit. The only thing I can see that requires that much agreement and loyalty is God and his Word. No man, not even a pastor or elder, deserves the same.

Dave Barnhart

[dcbii] I don’t need my pastor to make me feel “warm and fuzzy” about my choices, and I’m quite capable of reasoned disagreement with other Christians without getting offended. That said, there’s a world of difference between one-on-one interaction expressing to me why my vote was supposedly a terrible choice, and being “trained” and “corrected” by the one I’m speaking with. I can (and have and do) disagree with my pastor on various issues, and we discuss some of those in personal conversations. If that disagreement all of a sudden turned toward “if you don’t accept correction from me on this, you’re unrepentant, etc.,” that’s what would start turning me toward the door, at least in the absence of direct scripture and valid arguments from such showing me where I was wrong. I’m hardly the giant that Martin Luther was, but I very much employ his method of expecting the combination of scripture and reason to show me where I’m wrong before acquiescing.

I don’t think I’ve ever categorized voting for Trump as a sin that requires repentance. And, I said earlier that voting for trump isn’t an issue of separation between believers. What I’ve repeatedly said is that voting for trump was a foolish decision because it’s based completely on political pragmatism. Christians are called to better.

This morning, I was reading in Matthew from my Greek NT. Matthew 7:15-20 is a familiar passage to most of us here, and I’m sure we all would affirm that we believe it to be true. Yet, by voting for leaders like Trump we act as though this passage isn’t true. We expect good fruit to come from a demonstrably evil tree. More than that, we act Shocked! Shocked! when a demonstrably evil tree produces its evil fruit. We know better – or, at least we should have.

That was Aaron’s point with the first post on this thread.

It doesn’t take a genius to see that neither of the choices we had was for a righteous ruler, so while I would agree that Isaiah 11:1-10 is important, and I can’t see any immediate disagreement with the points in your post, it’s not like we had a choice of David vs. Saul in this election. (Plus, I’d guess that there were a number of points during David’s reign where righteous men would question the character of the man on the throne, especially when he made choices that led to insurrection or got thousands of men killed by other sinful choices.)

Ah, that is the point of verses Isaiah 11:1-2. Jesus Christ, our returning king, will be a better David.

I don’t know about your church, but in ours, we also have disagreements with each other and the pastors during deacon’s meetings (shocker, eh?). However, because all of those present are men that want the best for God’s church and his people, and we want to be wise and careful in how we act, it never turns personal (or hasn’t yet, anyway), and we can disagree while still being Christian brothers, and move forward with an action plan we can all accept, even if not every single one of us agree.

The same is true in my church. In fact, our elders have disagreements with each other during elder meetings. It’s part of the life of the church. Disagreements have turned personal a few times since I’ve been an elder, but we are usually quick to seek and grant forgiveness and reconcile as brothers in Christ.

I have already said that I did not think the January 6th rally was a good idea, but I would like to know the specific words that Trump used to incite the riot so that I am more informed on this subject. I know that there was a lot of anger through the years leading up to the Million Man Marches and the Woman’s Marches, but anger over an issue is not the same as calling for incitement of a riot. I did give a link earlier that gave specifics about Kamala Harris’ words, but I would like to have specifics about Trump’s words as well.