John Piper Announces Leave: "The precious garden of my home needs tending."

I am sure there are all sorts of stories about time off. That is not the sole issue. Piper stated:

I asked the elders to consider this leave because of a growing sense that my soul, my marriage, my family, and my ministry-pattern need a reality check from the Holy Spirit.

Piper further stated:

But on the other hand, I see several species of pride in my soul that, while they may not rise to the level of disqualifying me for ministry, grieve me, and have taken a toll on my relationship with Noël and others who are dear to me. How do I apologize to you, not for a specific deed, but for ongoing character flaws, and their effects on everybody?

He later stated that his marriage was rock solid. Then what is the emergency? Every Christian I know would deal with the stated issues within the normal daily functions of life. Adjust the schedule. Become more fervent in prayer. Increase study of the word with more personal application. Paul sets a good example at Philippians 3:1-17. Face it and move on.

Its not about time. It is about time + reasons + known theological outlook + the need of most all Christians to face similar struggles and challanges with no time off + the possible exaggeration by posters of present North American ministry hardships (Heb. 12:1-6).

It is how I perceive the issues based on circumstances and reason for the request. Any of my business? Yes, a public statement was made and released. No, beyond that it becomes a matter of his own privacy.

Bob, you may be right. But the people who make the decisions at Bethlehem have done what they have. Piper says he wanted it otherwise. I don’t think he was lying. For all we know, Piper wanted to be done because of the reasons he states and the leaders at Bethlehem wanted him to give them five more years, and this was a compromise they reached.

I don’t think that the position of pastor is necessarily harder than others when it comes to these kind of marriage struggles, etc. But there are pressures unique to the vocation, especially as Piper does it. He’s been married 46 years, and pastoring 30 at BBC. At his age, at about any other job, he could draw a pension and retire to Florida, and no one would think anything of it. Doing what he does, people still want him to serve as pastor, author, conference speaker, blogger… and many would be happy to ask him to do that until he was on his deathbed. I don’t think that’s wrong of them to ask him, by the way… but I’m sure at some points a wife might want her husband to wind down, and it seems that Piper’s individual demands seem to get bigger, if anything, as he advances in years.

There’s plenty of room to be harsh in one’s assessment. But there is also plenty of room to analyze charitably. I am opting for the latter option, myself.

Bob,

Every Christian I know would deal with the stated issues within the normal daily functions of life.

Ah the beauty of sweeping generalizations and flawed comparisons….i’m sure every Christian you know has the demands and scrutiny of a ministry with hundreds of staff and global influence.

This is the age of transparency, sensitivity, being in touch, emotional bonding, personal needs, mentoring, and accountability. Naval gazing equals spiritual pursuit to many.

We live in the age of the Pastoral wimp taken in by his own sense of importance.

Your comment in response to those who disagreed with you:

All the replies that attempted to bring ad hominem attacks to bear indicate another major problem with Fundamentalism and this generation of some (not all) pastors.

So it’s ok for you to bash Piper’s decision and Western pastors in general who find caring for others tiring. But when folk crack back in terms which you describe as acceptable (“Rhetoric can be harsh, stern, or sympathetic and all within the bounds of Christian love”), you cry foul? As I tell my sons, if you punch your brother, expect them to punch back.

As to your general argument…the attempt to couch your bias against modern church and modern pastors within a pseudo-logical theological diatribe on Puritanism is less than convincing. Your concept that the pastor should stiffen his upper lip, jut his chin, puff his chest and move forward is more Judas than Jesus.

Before his own master he stands or falls and God is able to make him stand.
No business of any of us to judge whether what he feels is necessary is really necessary or not. We have almost no information to base such a judgment on. Christian charity would say that if he believes he needs the time to take care of important matters, then he needs the time. The details of the arrangement are secondary and—as several have pointed out—between him and his church.

I concede that many of you have brought up some examples where a person is allowed to leave work for an extended period of time and get paid at the same time (I wouldn’t equate this situation to paternity leave, though); however, I still do not understand how they can force him to take the pay if he does not want it. I would have a hard time taking 8 months pay for doing nothing. Also, I guess in the back woods country churches I come from, sabbaticals do not exist; but that is probably because most churches could not afford to pay their pastors to take time off to write books. It would seem that his books sell well enough that he would not need the church to pay him while he is writing them. I know that my comments have nothing to do with the actual point of this thread, so I will quit making them.

[JasonR] I concede that many of you have brought up some examples where a person is allowed to leave work for an extended period of time and get paid at the same time (I wouldn’t equate this situation to paternity leave, though); however, I still do not understand how they can force him to take the pay if he does not want it. I would have a hard time taking 8 months pay for doing nothing. Also, I guess in the back woods country churches I come from, sabbaticals do not exist; but that is probably because most churches could not afford to pay their pastors to take time off to write books. It would seem that his books sell well enough that he would not need the church to pay him while he is writing them. I know that my comments have nothing to do with the actual point of this thread, so I will quit making them.

[John Piper] We will seek the Lord for how much of your financial support to give back to the church, to perhaps bear some of the load.

Sounds like he may be giving a substantial amount back.

You can’t really stop somebody from writing you a check and mailing it to you. And if you’ve got direct deposit set up, you can’t stop it unless you revoke the account access agreement.
So the only way to prevent someone from giving you money who is determined to do it is to either not deposit (which in this case would mess up the church’s books) or deposit and give it back in the offering.
But, really, why bother. If they want to help out in that way, it’s certainly their prerogative.

And could it be possible that the elders actually prayed about whether Piper should continue to be paid. I know that’s highly unlikely (hopefully everyone can sense the sarcasm here). We have absolutely no idea the circumstances here, and there is a lot of jumping to conclusions going on. And if you are not a member there, why should you care??? How ‘bout we pray for them all as fellow Christians rather than sniping at them from our computers when we know 1/2% of the details?

[Bob T.] Every Christian I know would deal with the stated issues within the normal daily functions of life. Adjust the schedule. Become more fervent in prayer. Increase study of the word with more personal application. Paul sets a good example at Philippians 3:1-17. Face it and move on.

Here is the difference between what “every Christian” would do and what a pastor should do:
I Timothy 3:4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity e keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for w God’s church?

If a pastor feels as though things are slipping, he has the responsibility to get things right. The “every Christian” also is told to love his wife and be the head of his wife, but they will not become unqualified to stock shelves at Walmart if they do not keep a right relationship in their marriage and family.
I would argue, Bob, that we do not take this passage seriously enough, and while I do disagree with Piper on many things, for this I applaud him and thank him for the example he is to me as a younger pastor. My family has got to be right in order for me to continue on as pastor. That is why I believe he is wise to step away in order to get things in order before he does become disqualified to be a pastor.

Personally, I am glad that John is able to get this kind of time off, and I am glad that the church is able to pay him while he takes the time off. I see nothing wrong with either of these things when a man has faithfully served a church for 30+ years and is in his mid sixties, an age when many people retire, but when John is simply asking for 8 months off so that he might, as he hopes, comes back for at least another five strong years of ministry. Frankly, I could see how the church leadership might see giving him such a paid leave as a worthwhile investment in a man who has been — and no doubt will continue to be — so productive in ministry.

I am also glad to see that John recognizes he has begun to see pride in his soul, for some of us who have witnessed a number of his ministry decisions and public answers to questions, have begun to pick up on it as well. I only hope I see my own pride so clearly and seek to battle it by God’s grace, even if I can’t take such time off. But, of course, I am still in my mid forties (rather than mid sixties) and I have only served at Immanuel for about 17 years (rather than 30+), so I certainly wouldn’t expect such an opportunity, even if the church could afford it.

[Bob Nutzhorn]

[Bob T.] Every Christian I know would deal with the stated issues within the normal daily functions of life. Adjust the schedule. Become more fervent in prayer. Increase study of the word with more personal application. Paul sets a good example at Philippians 3:1-17. Face it and move on.

Here is the difference between what “every Christian” would do and what a pastor should do:
I Timothy 3:4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity e keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for w God’s church?

If a pastor feels as though things are slipping, he has the responsibility to get things right. The “every Christian” also is told to love his wife and be the head of his wife, but they will not become unqualified to stock shelves at Walmart if they do not keep a right relationship in their marriage and family.
I would argue, Bob, that we do not take this passage seriously enough, and while I do disagree with Piper on many things, for this I applaud him and thank him for the example he is to me as a younger pastor. My family has got to be right in order for me to continue on as pastor. That is why I believe he is wise to step away in order to get things in order before he does become disqualified to be a pastor.

So if your not a Pastor you don’t have to do this, right?

[Bob T.]

[Bob Nutzhorn]

[Bob T.] Every Christian I know would deal with the stated issues within the normal daily functions of life. Adjust the schedule. Become more fervent in prayer. Increase study of the word with more personal application. Paul sets a good example at Philippians 3:1-17. Face it and move on.

Here is the difference between what “every Christian” would do and what a pastor should do:
I Timothy 3:4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity e keeping his children submissive, 5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for w God’s church?

If a pastor feels as though things are slipping, he has the responsibility to get things right. The “every Christian” also is told to love his wife and be the head of his wife, but they will not become unqualified to stock shelves at Walmart if they do not keep a right relationship in their marriage and family.
I would argue, Bob, that we do not take this passage seriously enough, and while I do disagree with Piper on many things, for this I applaud him and thank him for the example he is to me as a younger pastor. My family has got to be right in order for me to continue on as pastor. That is why I believe he is wise to step away in order to get things in order before he does become disqualified to be a pastor.

So if your not a Pastor you don’t have to do this, right?

Of course you do - which is what I said.

[Bob Nutzhorn] The “every Christian” also is told to love his wife and be the head of his wife, but they will not become unqualified to stock shelves at Walmart if they do not keep a right relationship in their marriage and family.

Bob,
Have you not seen pastors “stick it out” in a pastorate (or even as a deacon) while their families have been lost. I have - many times. Some of them very prominent pastors in the IFB circles. They don’t step down, they don’t take time off to get things right, maybe because they don’t want to be a wimp as you have suggested they are if they step aside for a while.

[Pastork] Personally, I am glad that John is able to get this kind of time off, and I am glad that the church is able to pay him while he takes the time off. I see nothing wrong with either of these things when a man has faithfully served a church for 30+ years and is in his mid sixties, an age when many people retire, but when John is simply asking for 8 months off so that he might, as he hopes, comes back for at least another five strong years of ministry. Frankly, I could see how the church leadership might see giving him such a paid leave as a worthwhile investment in a man who has been — and no doubt will continue to be — so productive in ministry.

I am also glad to see that John recognizes he has begun to see pride in his soul, for some of us who have witnessed a number of his ministry decisions and public answers to questions, have begun to pick up on it as well. I only hope I see my own pride so clearly and seek to battle it by God’s grace, even if I can’t take such time off. But, of course, I am still in my mid forties (rather than mid sixties) and I have only served at Immanuel for about 17 years (rather than 30+), so I certainly wouldn’t expect such an opportunity, even if the church could afford it.

Do you have a Pride gage that I can use? When do you have pride and when do you not have pride. If I take a sabbatical and perceive I now have no pride, do I need to take another sabbatical if it starts coming back? Or perhaps Biblically defined pride is a life long human struggle for all that can only be dealt with on a continuing basis and is best dealt with within the normal life functions that nurtured some of the pride. Is righteous indignation or judgment due to pride or due to humility in submitting to God? Or perhaps one can get to a Monastery?

I always have pride to a more or less degree. I must learn to be controlled (filled) by the spirit and keep pride from manifesting itself. I must further hope it will diminish some with time as to its continues residing in the soul. It will always be there but will not be eradicated until glorification. The Puritans especially claim to have wrestled with Pride. Some so much so that they doubted their Justification because they believed it was confirmed by works of God and not of self. Their constant self examination produced a perception of practical righteousness and of a consequence, future awareness of more pride. Humility due to perception of sinfulness produced doubt of Justification bringing humility. It was a cycle of spiritual struggle that was not dealt with by resting under the refreshing shade of the tree of justification provided by union with Christ.. Man, did many of them ever need a sabbatical! Problem was there was too much work to do. It is true that a short retreat or a good vacation can be refreshing. It may give perspective and rest. However, it can only be a couple days or a couple weeks. Even a month once a year.

A pastor can take a ten year continuing sabbatical. That to me is not an issue standing alone. The issue involves all the issues mentioned seen together in total ministry and spiritual life context.

I apologize for taking so long to respond, but for some reason I never saw your post before today. I will, however, try to answer as best I can with limited time.

Do you have a Pride gage that I can use?

Why are you asking this question? Is it because of my having said that “I am also glad to see that John recognizes he has begun to see pride in his soul, for some of us who have witnessed a number of his ministry decisions and public answers to questions, have begun to pick up on it as well”? If so, then, no, I don’t have a “pride gage.” All I have is the evidence of what someone says and does. For example, it certainly seems a bit prideful to me that John would ask a guy like Doug Wilson to speak as the Desiring God conference and then respond to critics by saying that they are just a bunch of “PCA guys who aren’t careful in the way they think.” Now, perhaps such a flippant and dismissive response to a great number of godly and very careful pastors and theologians, not to mention lumping all critics together with PCA critics as though Baptists couldn’t possibly have good reasons for objecting to Wilson as well, may not seem at all prideful to you, but it certainly seems that way to me. And, of course, John agrees with this assessment at least to some degree, for he has openly said so, even though he hasn’t mentioned a specific instance such as I have suggested.

If you want to see my response to this whole issue, you can check a blog article I wrote called “Disappointed in John Piper’s Judgment About Doug Wilson.” Here is the link:

http://reformedbaptist.blogspot.com/2009/06/disappointed-in-john-piper…

When do you have pride and when do you not have pride. If I take a sabbatical and perceive I now have no pride, do I need to take another sabbatical if it starts coming back? Or perhaps Biblically defined pride is a life long human struggle for all that can only be dealt with on a continuing basis and is best dealt with within the normal life functions that nurtured some of the pride.

Frankly, I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Of course pride is something we all battle as a root sin throughout our lives, and of course we should deal with it in every situation in which we find ourselves. I am sure that I struggle with pride as much as anyone, and I do so in the context of my normal life and ministry (although I also greatly appreciate whatever vacation time I get). But what is wrong with a guy who has worked very hard for many years taking a sabbatical in order to strengthen his walk with the Lord, especially if he thinks he sees an issue with pride that might affect his ability to perform his pastoral role?

And, by the way, I don’t think a battle with pride was the only reason John gave for taking the sabbatical (a decision made in conjunction with his wife and the leadership at Bethlehem). It may have been the primary issue raised, but I think I remember John’s desire to focus on strengthening his marriage as being part of the reason for the sabbatical as well. But even if a particularly difficult struggle with pride was the only issue raised, I still don’t begrudge a John the opportunity to get away for a while, not even if it is for eight months.

Is righteous indignation or judgment due to pride or due to humility in submitting to God? Or perhaps one can get to a Monastery?

Where is this coming from? When have I ever said or implied in any way that indignation or good Biblical judgment are necessarily prideful? And who ever ever said anything about John’s getting away from people altogether? John is just taking a sabbatical from his ministry duties. To my knowledge he never said anything about avoiding God’s people.

As for the rest of your post, I just don’t get it. John Piper is in his mid sixties and has worked very hard for a long time and is desirous of working at least until his seventies. But he sees a need for some time to regroup after having been increasingly thrown into a kind of spotlight that would provide a temptation that most of us never experience. Perhaps I might see things a little more your way if John was in his mid thirties, for example. But why should I begrudge the man such an opportunity for a sabbatical at this point in his life and ministry, especially since it is with the blessing and encouragement of his church and its leadership? And especially since it does not mean that John will stop ministry altogether. I mean, who among us thinks for a second that John won’t minister while on sabbatical to the needs of others as God gives him opportunity? And who of us doubts that his final years of ministry won’t be strong ones?

As one who has gotten to know John at least a little bit, who has seen him in action up close and personal, who has at times been greatly helped by him, and who has come to love and admire him, I rejoice that he is still growing in his faith and that he has the chance to take some time to prepare for what will probably be the final sprint of his race.

I pray that john will come back stronger than ever and that God will bless him with new insights for the rest of us.

TTFN

Keith

I can’t say I know anything about Piper’s theology and what irks some of you about it. I have just finished reading his book ” Don’t Waste Your Life” and thought it was brill. So my initial impressions of him are very positive. Mind you my fundamentalism isn’t as constricted as it is with some.
I’m all for extending compassion to him and pray that the Lord will restore him to where he should be in every aspect of his life.
We all are flawed, some of us are not maybe as open about things as Piper but whatever disagreements you may have he still remains a brother in the Lord and we should respond lovingly as brothers toward him.