Evangelical leaders condemn Capitol protest violence: 'Dangerous for our republic'

[AndyE] I’m not sure it is fair to say we should have seen this coming, but now that it has come, we ought to see it for what it is.

Andy,

If someone didn’t know how Trump has handled his business and personal affairs in past, you might have a point. But, that is virtually impossible given Trump’s narcissism and continual presence on TV and social media in the years leading up to his presidential bid. Trump did what Trump has always done: attack, bully, intimidate, and harass those who disagreed / opposed him.

These tactics (some of which were illegal) were well substantiated before his presidential bid.

So, yes, Christian Trump supporters should have seen this coming.

The events around Trump, much of which he created himself, are sad to see. Contrary to those who self-righteously condemn him and those who voted for him, Trump is a complex man with some exaggerated sin problems. The accomplishments of the hard-working people in his administration are now overshadowed by his own sins. All of this will motivate those with ungodly policy goals to push harder for their agenda. An interesting side note: The events of this week coincided with our annual Prayer & Fasting Week in our church. How timely.

Wally,

Those who warned others about Trump’s character were/are not being self-righteous. His ethical / moral degeneracy was/is legion. The fact that so many American Christians frankly ignored or rationalized it because of political pragmatism says more about the state of the American church than about Trump or the Republican party.

That’s what is really sad to see. Trump imploding is just a result of Trump being Trump.

This is now the defense of most Christians who supported Trump.

Pathetic!

T Howard: Please identify the person and quotes of those who have commented at Si who are now “shocked” at what has happened. When and where has anyone stated that?

[AndyE]

I’m not sure it is fair to say we should have seen this coming, but now that it has come, we ought to see it for what it is.

I can’t say what other people saw, but I saw this coming from a mile away. Even when he was campaigning. Having been involved with extreme narcisistic people, this is the end result. Most Christians tend to ignore this significant character issue in exchange for the message he was giving. Trump has always been about himself, and that continues to this day. Many people viewed this as someone who was prideful, but narcissim is a serious disease on the same level as a psychopath in terms of mental illness. Their view of the world and themselves is significantly flawed and it is not something that can be corrected. In fact narcissism and psychopath are sometimes difficult to differentiate. Trump, in my opinion is very dangerous. And while I am thankful for the conservative bench that he established as well as a few other points, putting a narcisist into a position as the “most powerful man in the world” is a massive powderkeg. I would encourage Christians spend time in understanding the impact of serious character flaws and their impact on leadership to educate themselves from future issues. Abortion is not the only issue for a presidency.

[WallyMorris]

T Howard: Please identify the person and quotes of those who have commented at Si who are now “shocked” at what has happened. When and where has anyone stated that?

Wally, please reread the articles and this thread slowly. The “we voted for Trump, but we didn’t vote for storming the capital” crew is who I’m referencing.

[dgszweda]

And while I am thankful for the conservative bench that he established as well as a few other points, putting a narcisist into a position as the “most powerful man in the world” is a massive powderkeg. I would encourage Christians spend time in understanding the impact of serious character flaws and their impact on leadership to educate themselves from future issues. Abortion is not the only issue for a presidency.

[WallyMorris]

T Howard: Please identify the person and quotes of those who have commented at Si who are now “shocked” at what has happened. When and where has anyone stated that?

I voted against violence. I did not vote for Trump in 2016, but did in 2020. One of the reasons I supported his reelection was that he was calling for law and order during all the violence this summer. On the other hand, Kamala Harris was calling for MORE violence. That was a contrast that I could not miss. She also paid the bail of those arrested for violence. For those of you who have forgotten what people were saying last summer here is a short clip. It is short enough that most of you can watch it faster than typing a response.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ-xV5hx39U&feature=emb_logo&fbclid=IwAR2wr6X_lSpIB-8rHBJwn-ZjnU7L_uJbonUvLVMEjteFlxdG5GewCQaL04I

Aaron, you owe us more than honesty- you owe us an apology.

[AndyE]

So, when people used terms like narcisist about Trump, I just thought they were name-calling. I never thought of Trump in those terms. Probably I would have put his character in the same general realm as Bill Clinton’s

I think this was true for most people. There is a clinical definition and diagnosis for this, but I like how one article in Psychology Today paints a narcisist. This article was not related to Trump. But as you read these, look at how Trump ticks all of the boxes. For me, it really became clear the more he wanted praise for stuff. It was all about him. It also became clear as soon as one person was deemed disloyal (a low threshold for Trump), he threw them out. He went through so many staff members. And it really became the most clear when he wanted a military parade. But the moment that I realized how bad it was going to be, was the lying about the size of his inaugaration crowd. He had to lie about it being the largest, because if it wasn’t the largest and greatest ever, it would be a sleight to how great he truly was as a person.

1. I love myself and I know you do, too. In fact, everyone does—I can’t imagine anyone that doesn’t.
2. I have no need to apologize. You, however, must understand, accept, and tolerate me no matter what I do or say.
3. I have few equals in this world, and so far, I have yet to meet one. I am the best … (manager, businessman, lover, student, etc.).
4. Most people don’t measure up. Without me to lead, others would flounder.
5. I appreciate that there are rules and obligations, but those apply mostly to you, because I don’t have the time or the inclination to abide by them. Besides, rules are for the average person, and I am far above average.
6. I hope you appreciate all that I am and everything that I have achieved for you—because I am wonderful and faultless.
7. I do wish we could be equals, but we are not and never will be. I will remind you with unapologetic frequency that I am the smartest person in the room and how well I did in school, in business, as a parent, etc., and you must be grateful.
8. I may seem arrogant and haughty, and that’s OK with me—I just don’t want to be seen as being like you.
9. I expect you to be loyal to me at all times, no matter what I do; however, don’t expect me to be loyal to you in any way.
10. I will criticize you, and I expect you to accept it, but if you criticize me, especially in public, I will come at you with rage. One more thing: I will never forget or forgive. I will pay you back one way or another—because I am a “wound collector.”
11. I expect you to be interested in what I have achieved and in what I have to say. I, on the other hand, am not at all interested in you or in what you have achieved, so don’t expect much curiosity or interest from me about your life. I just don’t care.
12. I am not manipulative; I just like to have things done my way, no matter how much it inconveniences others or how it makes them feel. I actually don’t care how others feel—feelings are for the weak.
13. I expect gratitude at all times, for even the smallest things I do. As for you, I expect you to do as I demand.
14. I only associate with the best people, and frankly, most of your friends don’t measure up.
15. If you would just do what I say and obey, things would be better.

The “we voted for Trump, but we didn’t vote for storming the capital” crew is who I’m referencing.

What does that have to do with a sarcastic “I’m shocked” meme?

I expect Trump to be impeached next week. The senate will not review it before the next senate is convened, which means it has the real possibility of getting air time in the senate and could result in a vote of conviction. I am not sure it will pass the senate at that time though. But my opinion is that he should be convicted. He lost his chance of ever holding office again.

I think Trump massively miscalculated what he did here. His brand is massively tarnished when he leaves the White House. This will hurt and haunt him for the rest of his life. To be the only president to have created an insurrection and mob riot that took control of the Capital building and that killed police officers. Everything he did was thrown out over a 3 hour period.

My hope is that he does one honorable thing in his life and resigns from office. But, Trump being Trump, I doubt it.