Moody Apologizes Over Historical Blackface Photos

I think it’s pretty clear that Daniel is owning the sins of his community in the passage below. Was he wrong?

Daniel 9

4 I prayed to the Lord my God and confessed:

“Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps his covenant of love with those who love him and keep his commandments, 5 we have sinned and done wrong. We have been wicked and have rebelled; we have turned away from your commands and laws. 6 We have not listened to your servants the prophets, who spoke in your name to our kings, our princes and our ancestors, and to all the people of the land.

7 “Lord, you are righteous, but this day we are covered with shame—the people of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, both near and far, in all the countries where you have scattered us because of our unfaithfulness to you. 8 We and our kings, our princes and our ancestors are covered with shame, Lord, because we have sinned against you. 9 The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him; 10 we have not obeyed the Lord our God or kept the laws he gave us through his servants the prophets. 11 All Israel has transgressed your law and turned away, refusing to obey you.

“Therefore the curses and sworn judgments written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against you. 12 You have fulfilled the words spoken against us and against our rulers by bringing on us great disaster. Under the whole heaven nothing has ever been done like what has been done to Jerusalem. 13 Just as it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come on us, yet we have not sought the favor of the Lord our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth. 14 The Lord did not hesitate to bring the disaster on us, for the Lord our God is righteous in everything he does; yet we have not obeyed him.

15 “Now, Lord our God, who brought your people out of Egypt with a mighty hand and who made for yourself a name that endures to this day, we have sinned, we have done wrong. 16 Lord, in keeping with all your righteous acts, turn away your anger and your wrath from Jerusalem, your city, your holy hill. Our sins and the iniquities of our ancestors have made Jerusalem and your people an object of scorn to all those around us.

17 “Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. 18 Give ear, our God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. 19 Lord, listen! Lord, forgive! Lord, hear and act! For your sake, my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name.”

20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the Lord my God for his holy hill

I also am dancing on the tenterhooks of anticipation as I await scholarship’s verdict on how Augustine, from North Africa, engaged the issue of the Roman church’s white fragility in his published works.

Perhaps even more groundbreaking are the forthcoming revelations about how the church in Antioch managed to successfully integrate “Simeon who was called Niger” into their congregation. No doubt it involved repentance of their Roman fragility, among other steps. If Robin DeAngelo had been around, her published works would no doubt have been very valuable as analytical tools.

I have no doubt Paul laid all this out in one of his lost epistles.

It’s also clear that Christians either don’t understand or don’t use the distinctions between the Old and New covenant membership concepts when they cite OC texts in the context of this argument. Again, the myopic America-centric lens is tragic.

Your works cited are terrible. It consists of popular articles with little depth, and popular books written by partisans with axes to grind. You would do better to read general works by historians. I suggest:

• Strange Career of Jim Crow by C. Van Woodward
• Dred Scott v. Sanford court decision
• Brown v. Board of Education court decision
• Simple Justice by Richard Kluger
• Bearing the Cross by David Garrow
• Grand Expectations, America 1945-1975 (Oxford History of United States series) by James Patterson
• Freedom Bound by Robert Weisbrot

Thanks for the links above, but you are wrong about this.

Daniel was praying about the sins of Israel against God. They were in covenant to Him. Their expulsion from the land was based on covenant disobedience. Daniel had read Jeremiah and realized that the time of exile was up, but his “apology” was to God alone.

Tyler, you’re citing the Dred Scott decision as evidence against the notion of racism in the U.S.? (blink blink huh what?)

And let’s go through the copyright dates of what you cited. “Strange Career of JIm Crow”, 1955. Dred Scott decision, 1857. Brown v. Board of Education, 1954. “Simple Justice”, 1975. “Bearing the Cross”, 1986. “Grand Expectations”, 1996. “Freedom Bound”, 1989 (written by a guy who’s name in German means, hee hee, “white bread”, by the way)

Um, maybe a couple of references from the past quarter century might be appropriate here? Perhaps something detailing history more recent than….45-50 years back or more? I don’t think anybody denies that the end of official Jim Crow was indeed a great achievement for which we ought to be very grateful, but what’s being discussed here is the wonderful opportunity we have of dealing with the quieter (and still legal, sort of ) manifestations of racial bias.

It’s not that we ought to take every statement at face value—especially those using “disparate impact” as a proxy argument for racism—but let’s at least hear those arguments and not shout them down, rhetorically speaking.

I did not cite Dred Scott in that context. Chief Justice Taney actually used a textualist argument (before the term existed, I believe) to argue that the Constitutional Convention did not consider black people to be citizens in 1787, thus neither Mr. Scott nor any black person had any rights as citizens under the Constitution.

I would also suggest Defending Slavery: Proslavery Thought in the Old South - A Brief History with Documents by Paul Finkelman.

[Paul Henebury]

Thanks for the links above, but you are wrong about this.

Daniel was praying about the sins of Israel against God. They were in covenant to Him. Their expulsion from the land was based on covenant disobedience. Daniel had read Jeremiah and realized that the time of exile was up, but his “apology” was to God alone.

Paul, I understand the distinctions you are making and you are correct. But it’s also true that Daniel didn’t tell God, “I didn’t do any of this; I have nothing for which to apologize.”. I’m not trying to draw any further parallels than that. I don’t think we should apologize for being white (as that is who God made us) or that I should feel personally guilty for what I haven’t done. But I don’t see why it’s so hard to say that the white community has done injustice for 400 years and as a part of that community I am sorry for what has been done.

[Ken S]

Paul Henebury wrote:

could you help me out by giving me some links etc to this vast information?

Thank you.

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/racism-and-corporate-evil

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/american-racism-weve-got-so-very

https://www.holypost.com/post/let-s-talk-about-race-in-america

https://www.amazon.com/Color-Compromise-American-Churchs-Complicity/dp/0…

https://www.amazon.com/White-Fragility-People-About-Racism/dp/0807047414…

Oh boy! I don’t want to get into a big spat here, but Keller has gone full ‘social justice’ and his three examples from Josh. 7, Dan. 9 and Rom. 5 are plain awful applications of their respective contexts. Again, we must not forget the Mosaic covenantal context of Joshua and Daniel. Scholars debate whether Achan’s family perished. I do not think they did (See See Adolph L. Harstad, Joshua, 328). But the main point is that men died because Achan was greedy. The context is that the covenant people must put God first. If acting together they couldn’t obey the strictures of God’s herem they couldn’t obey Him at all. White people are not under any such ban, and the two situations have nothing in common.

Dan. 9 I have already commented on. Romans 5 has to do with our being in Adam. As a covenant theologian Keller probably accepts corporate guilt via what is called “creationism” in federal theology. I do not, and neither do many others. I hold that Adam’s sin is actually passed down to us (traducianism) and that he is more of a seminal head of the race. But even there it is the sin nature that is in view, not particular sins. So again, the correspondence Keller is trying to show is very thin. You’re going to have to do a lot better if you want to prove your point!

I do understand where you’re coming from, but what do you want - a big one time apology from all white folks for what some white folks did in past generations? Haven’t we condemned slavery and racism enough already?

David French’s piece is not convincing, and is really just another excuse for him to link the alt-right with Trump. Anything to bash Trump. Phil Vischer is speaking for himself. Jolly good. I will speak for myself. I was once going to marry a lady from Ghana. It did not work out but “race” was not the issue, personality was. Biblically speaking there is one race, the human race.

Jemar Tisby? Really? How about this from Voddie Baucham? Or this by Coleman Hughes? Or this from Walter E. Williams?

Again I ask, what percentage of the white population have to be racist to make the rest of the white community guilty?

If over 90% of white Americans did not own slaves during the days of legalized slavery, and if probably close to 95% of present day whites are not descended from slave owners, what term do we use for the call for them to apologize? If 50% of white Americans descended from those who fought, and in many cases, gave their lives to end slavery, what term do we use for the call for them to apologize? And what should they apologize for? For their ancestors fighting to free the slaves? It would seem that, perhaps, “Thank you” might be more appropriate. Let’s be honest, isn’t the call for white people to apologize for things they didn’t do another form of racial prejudice? “Why should I apologize, if I can’t identify anything that I have done wrong?” Answer, “Because you’re white.” “OK, OK, I’m sorry that I was born white. But I didn’t ask to be born white, and didn’t have anything to do with my being born white.” “It doesn’t matter. You are white, so you must apologize.” (And hand over some serious money for reparations as well.) Where will all this craziness end? Even so come, Lord Jesus!

Shed his blood to end slavery.

Me: No need to apologize

I appreciate Paul and GN Barkman’s questions as I also continue to wonder why we are being asked to apologize for things that are based on faulty assumptions and narratives that factual information does not support. Do some people have a problem with racism? Some may and probably do (and they need to repent if actually disrespecting or mistreating people based on the color of their skin) but to identify a whole group of people (based on their color being white, for instance) by either things from a long time ago (and have changed) that we were not part of, or by the actions and attitudes of a few, seems to be condemnation without foundation. I was “informed” recently when I had mentioned I had black friends (and some really close friends) most of my life, from early high school, in college and still today, that that was “tokenism” just because I am white. Really? These friends are as real as any of my friends. I have developed friendships based on places I have lived, served in ministry, worked, hobbies I am involved with, etc. It is not tokenism just because somebody wrote a book and said so. These messages (and an article) by Voddie Baucham were helpful in understanding that this is really not about “race” since we are really all of one race and more behind what we are seeing and hearing. Food for thought.

Cultural Marxism

Social Justice

Thoughts on Ferguson

And now they are firing the relatives. Welcome to America’s version of the Chinese Cultural Revolution:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/stepmother-of-atlanta-cop-in-rayshard-brooks-shooting-fired-from-job

Oops, I forgot. Using the word “Chinese” here is insensitive and threatening.

I also have 2 distant direct relatives (some order of grandparent) who have Civil War markers on their tombstones (Indiana regiments though they later moved to Kansas and are buried there). I smile because there is also a Spanish-Am War marker on another, WW1 (great-grandfather), WW2 (grandfather), my father was a vet (1960-64), and so am I. I’m not sure if that makes us all heroes or patsies, but it is there.