What Is a Christian’s Duty to Unjust Government?

[TylerR]

There’s a difference between arresting and charging. You also speak in vague abstractions about “reform” that sounds good but mean nothing in practical terms.Please see my explanation, above, for a discussion about some of the likely challenges in this investigation. Your suggestion that police, in effect, routinely arrest everybody and sort out the details later is inaccurate. This is not a Communist police state.

Tyler, spare me the bull hockey. Watch the video. Then watch the multiple ones over the last few years and tell me nothing is going on. Wake up, sir.

I don’t care about “complications.” The police union should be ashamed of themselves for defending this officer like they have vowed to do. ASHAMED. If they do I condemn them for endorsing violence and brutal police tactics.

The officer himself should repent and throw himself on the mercy of the court. He knows he did wrong. If he doesn’t think he did wrong then that condemns himself.

For me personally, I fully expect this cop’s lawyer and the union to get him off. That means nothing. He is a criminal. Everyone can see that with their eyes.

If the system is so loaded and corrupt it does not convict this guy then we need to reform it.

This is not a “mob mentality” going after this guy. He was caught red-handed on video choking out a cuffed man for 8 minutes…

Ciao.

[TylerR]

Ciao.

Hello. Ignore all you want. That just speaks volumes about yourself. Seriously.

I don’t see that in the videos I have seen, but let’s just say he did..

SO WHAT?

This the problem the police have. The man was accused of passing a fake $20 bill. Think of that. $20.

So what if he resists and back talks. You have the man cuffed. Let him cool off. Use four guys to throw him in the back of the squad car then drive him to the station.

At no point is it even remotely reasonable to pull him out of the car, on to the ground, and then choke him out. NONE.

Yes, I am furious about this. The time for this is over!

[Mark_Smith]

TylerR wrote:

Ciao.

Hello. Ignore all you want. That just speaks volumes about yourself. Seriously.

And your bombast and incivility speak volumes about you.

[Bert Perry]

They fired all four four excessive force the very next day. We can investigate whether their actions actually killed him, and to what degree they were responsible, but the MPD revealed the next day that they felt that the officers’ conduct went beyond reasonable restraint and into the regime of assault/battery at the very least. Anyone not in the police who did that would be arrested on the spot.

Regarding his size, 6’6” and 200 lbs is not that physically imposing. It’s actually a BMI of about 23, fairly skinny by U.S. standards. And even if it were 6’6” and 300 lbs arranged like an All-Pro OT, would that excuse this? Knee on the neck of a guy who’s cuffed and unconscious? A couple of minutes after the officer have reason to believe he’s dead?

Seriously, guys? Not even a quick arrest for this? Really?

Firing the officers immediately means only that the police chief/mayor were more concerned about negative publicity than about getting things right. Did you not read my comment above with the information from the litigator who does this for a living? The necessary IA/OPR review can’t be done that quickly; it’s impossible. All this means is that if the cops aren’t later criminally convicted, they’ll be suing the department for wrongful termination and they’ll likely win. There’s no moral or evidentiary conclusion you can draw from the firings — not if you’re interested in truth and facts rather than emotion and speed.

As for Floyd’s size, first, I didn’t say he was 200 pounds; I said he was OVER 200 pounds (because I couldn’t recall offhand if he was 220, 230, or what). To call him “skinny” is flatly inaccurate (hopefully not disengenuous). You’ve seen the video, right? It’s obvious he was a large, muscled, strong man; he towered over the officers. If you think that makes no justifiable difference in the amount of resistance the cops are required to put up, you’re being obtuse.

I never said his size excused excessive force. Go back and read my posts and Tyler’s posts and take out the lens of “the officers didn’t do anything wrong” that you’re reading with, because neither Tyler nor I have ever said that. We’re not saying for sure that they did or didn’t use excessive force. I’m happy to say that it looks like they did. But we’re saying we don’t know for sure and neither do you, so calm down and wait for the evidence to come in and the investigation(s) to be done. Otherwise, almost certainly, you’ll be eating crow about one or more aspects of the situation. More importantly, you’re advocating injustice, which hopefully you don’t want to do.

[Mark_Smith]

Tyler, spare me the bull hockey. Watch the video. Then watch the multiple ones over the last few years and tell me nothing is going on. Wake up, sir.

I don’t care about “complications.” The police union should be ashamed of themselves for defending this officer like they have vowed to do. ASHAMED. If they do I condemn them for endorsing violence and brutal police tactics.

The officer himself should repent and throw himself on the mercy of the court. He knows he did wrong. If he doesn’t think he did wrong then that condemns himself.

For me personally, I fully expect this cop’s lawyer and the union to get him off. That means nothing. He is a criminal. Everyone can see that with their eyes.

If the system is so loaded and corrupt it does not convict this guy then we need to reform it.

This is not a “mob mentality” going after this guy. He was caught red-handed on video choking out a cuffed man for 8 minutes…

Watch which “multiple ones” over the last few years? The publicized ones, like the Ferguson incident, where it turned out (even according to the Obama Justice Department) that the officer was completely justified (same in Baltimore and in other publicized cases)? The (fewer) publicized cases where it turned out the office acted unlawfully and was punished criminally (contrary to all the complaints about the system being broken)? Actually, do you have any publicized case to point to where the officers were clearly guilty but were somehow exonerated by the criminal justice system? If you don’t, you’re making up the existence of “multiple ones.”

The police union’s reason for being is to defend officers against any and all disciplinary actions. The officers pay for that defense in advance. Are you saying the officers shouldn’t have a defense? That the union should break its contract with the officers when you (or anyone else) thinks the officer is guilty of something? That’s ridiculous, and you know it.

Law abiding people in this country have to be relieved that you’re not in charge. You’re not Got, even though you’ve assigned yourself that role. The Constitution doesn’t allow anyone to claim that prerogative, thank God. By what authority do you claim the right or even the ability to “know” (from a single angle video, for crying out loud) exactly what happened and what should be done about it, without due process? Get over yourself, drop the virtue-signaling, sit down and wait for evidence to come in and for the best (imperfect) criminal justice system in the world to function as it should.

Tyler, good work. And an excellent example of the point.

[dmyers]

Mark_Smith wrote:

The officer himself should repent and throw himself on the mercy of the court. He knows he did wrong. If he doesn’t think he did wrong then that condemns himself.

The police union’s reason for being is to defend officers against any and all disciplinary actions. The officers pay for that defense in advance. Are you saying the officers shouldn’t have a defense? That the union should break its contract with the officers when you (or anyone else) thinks the officer is guilty of something? That’s ridiculous, and you know it.

I quote above what I said about the officer. He should admit his mistake and crime and ask for mercy.

You have video guys… this is not theoretical. You can see about 90% of the entire interaction. Floyd was cuffed… and sitting there. They then put him in the car. He was in the car! They then took him out and then onto the ground and then the neck move.

[Andrew K]

Mark_Smith wrote:

TylerR wrote:

Ciao.

Hello. Ignore all you want. That just speaks volumes about yourself. Seriously.

And your bombast and incivility speak volumes about you.

I apologize for nothing. This was complete, total, unadulterated injustice. Murder.

Please.

There was a murder here… do you not agree?

[Mark_Smith]

I quote above what I said about the officer. He should admit his mistake and crime and ask for mercy.

You have video guys… this is not theoretical. You can see about 90% of the entire interaction. Floyd was cuffed… and sitting there. They then put him in the car. He was in the car! They then took him out and then onto the ground and then the neck move.

You don’t have your facts even close to correct. The “entire interaction” was much longer than 8 minutes (the clips from other angles are very short; even put together we don’t have video of anything like the “entire interaction”). Where we do have video, we have only one angle. We don’t have any sound at all from the other video clips. You’re denying reality if you think single angle video gives you a full picture of something like this. (If it did, only one cop at a scene would have his body cam on.) But, unfortunately, you’re not interested in facts and reality and uncertainty or humility; you’re God.

You’re also wrong about them putting him in the car and taking him out. Have you not read any description of the course of events? He refused to go in the car. He claimed claustrophobia and physical distress. They tried getting him in the car with officers at one passenger door and another officer at the opposite passenger door attempting to pull him in. They couldn’t get him in (despite his being “skinny,” according to Bert). How can you be God and not know the basic facts? Oh, wait, I think I know the answer… .

[dmyers]

Mark_Smith wrote:

I quote above what I said about the officer. He should admit his mistake and crime and ask for mercy.

You have video guys… this is not theoretical. You can see about 90% of the entire interaction. Floyd was cuffed… and sitting there. They then put him in the car. He was in the car! They then took him out and then onto the ground and then the neck move.

You don’t have your facts even close to correct. The “entire interaction” was much longer than 8 minutes (the clips from other angles are very short; even put together we don’t have video of anything like the “entire interaction”). Where we do have video, we have only one angle. We don’t have any sound at all from the other video clips. You’re denying reality if you think single angle video gives you a full picture of something like this. (If it did, only one cop at a scene would have his body cam on.) But, unfortunately, you’re not interested in facts and reality and uncertainty or humility; you’re God.

You’re also wrong about them putting him in the car and taking him out. Have you not read any description of the course of events? He refused to go in the car. He claimed claustrophobia and physical distress. They tried getting him in the car with officers at one passenger door and another officer at the opposite passenger door attempting to pull him in. They couldn’t get him in (despite his being “skinny,” according to Bert). How can you be God and not know the basic facts? Oh, wait, I think I know the answer… .

There are multiple videos available now from store cameras. They show the initial police arrival (not the police officer who later killed him), the cuffing him, him collapsing, putting him in the car, a weird interaction where they apparently hit him in the car, then take him out. At that point, we have the video that we first saw of him on the ground.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/new-video-of-george-floyd-s-arrest…