Why Are Pastors Depressed? A Look at the Research
“In the interpretation of the responses, the study authors articulated five things that contribute to stress and, one could argue, be correlated to mental illness in clergy.” - Church Leaders
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[Jay]
- On Sunday, just before sermon, I received word husband is thinking of taking family to another church “where [wife] will be held accountable.” Wife is devastated and beside herself. Husband is essentially doing this because we refuse to agree that everything is wife’s fault.
That’s not bitterness. That’s abusive leadership and a stubborn unwillingness to obey Eph. 5:25-29 and Colossians 3:19 (at a minimum) on his part. No wonder the wife is devastated if that’s how he’s dealing with his family.
Maybe we’re getting off topic, but…
If the leadership and counselors determine that more likely than not, the husband is going to a new church to escape accountability, against the advice of his spiritual leadership, that’s potential grounds for beginning the church discipline process. It is not OK for a husband (or anyone) to behave this way. Obviously a church is limited in its “or else” options; and obviously there are weak churches that will accept new members out of a discipline situation without digging into it. But the disciplining church needs to communicate, strongly, that it’s not OK. Nor would the wife be obligated to follow.
I am curious because in other threads, some have said that church’s have no business in speaking into divorce situations. What about this situation? Doesn’t the church have business to do something here?
Michael Osborne
Philadelphia, PA
[GregH]
Welcome to the thread. I had you in mind when I asked my question above. In another thread, you were wary of churches speaking into divorce ethics questions. What about here? Should the church step up to call the husband out? (And yes, we don’t have access to the full facts; sometimes there are legit reasons to move on to another church that can help you more; but assume there’s good reason for the consensus that the husband is just blowing off accountability.)
Michael Osborne
Philadelphia, PA
I am curious because in other threads, some have said that church’s have no business in speaking into divorce situations. What about this situation? Doesn’t the church have business to do something here?
They’re members of the church and under the pastor’s authority. The church absolutely has the business and standing to get involved. It’s pastoral negligence to not address the situation.
The same thing goes for the “terrible human being” problem. Tell the wife to leave him, get her stabilized, and start the church discipline process on him as well. It’s probably long overdue. If the husband is so badly behaved at home that it’s destroyed his daughter’s faith in God, it’s definitely time to get involved.
If anyone wants help or advise with these types of situations, please let me know. I’ll be happy to help you.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
I know that it’s easy for me to hop online and throw out the church discipline card, but I should also note that you have to be extremely careful in these situations. Once the church starts putting pressure on the man to get his act together, he will likely take that out on her and the kids, so it is imperative that she and the children are safe first. Get them to a shelter or someone else, and make sure you don’t know where they are because it’s likely the man will come to you for answers.
The most dangerous part of any dealing with abuse is when the wife decides to do something about it, and it can easily escalate to violence or even murder. Get your elders and the police involved for sure and have a plan before you start making moves.
Here’s guidance from the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence:
Abusers repeatedly go to extremes to prevent the victim from leaving. In fact, leaving an abuser is the most dangerous time for a victim of domestic violence. One study found in interviews with men who have killed their wives that either threats of separation by their partner or actual separations were most often the precipitating events that lead to the murder.
A victim’s reasons for staying with their abusers are extremely complex and, in most cases, are based on the reality that their abuser will follow through with the threats they have used to keep them trapped: the abuser will hurt or kill them, they will hurt or kill the kids, they will win custody of the children, they will harm or kill pets or others, they will ruin their victim financially — the list goes on. The victim in violent relationships knows their abuser best and fully knows the extent to which they will go to make sure they have and can maintain control over the victim. The victim literally may not be able to safely escape or protect those they love. A recent study of intimate partner homicides found 20% of homicide victims were not the domestic violence victims themselves, but family members, friends, neighbors, persons who intervened, law enforcement responders, or bystanders.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Here is my perspective as a lay person. First, I think pastors take on too much and feel personally that they need to help solve the problems. If the problem is not solved it weighs on their shoulders. Part of this is admirable and an element of being a shepherd. But in the end, the pastor cannot solve sin. Even Christ could not convert Judas, who ultimately betrayed, probably a worse fate than most pastors face. I think pastors need to develop a thought process where they cannot solve the issue. Only Christ can do that. In Tyler’s example, while the wife and husband were bitter, this almost certainly the case when they were dating. They both brought this upon themselves, and in some cases divorce might be better. I think if pastors can approach this from not having to solve this and viewing their success through the lens of successfully solving every church issue, it might go a long way to helping themselves. Second, many pastors do not surround themselves with good leadership. We have talked about an elder model, and while I won’t argue the pro’s and con’s, a solid eldership team can have a significant effect of helping a pastor through the challenges of leading a church.
So many pastors are trying to do the right thing, but I think they loose sight of the bigger picture,and what started out as admirable, has led to depression and burnout.
Agreed with Greg, Jay, and Michael that the husband of that one couple is likely deeper in than just incidental sins and failing to repent of bitterness, and that it likely qualifies as some level of abuse. It also strikes me that in each case, there are questions I’d want to ask. How does the terrible husband drive his kids away from Christ? What does it mean that he is a “terrible human being”. (we all qualify via Romans 3:23, no—there are specifics to act on here, whether Tyler knows them or not) How did the 20 year marriage descend into bitterness—what were the husband and wife hoping for in marriage, and how did they hope to attain it? Why does the young lady identify as “pansexual”?
Questions like that. And while maybe it is in fact better for a couple of couples to simply cut their losses and divorce, I am enough of a hopeful person—a “Pollyanna” if you will—to think that maybe helping them understand who they were, who they are, and who they hope to be might be good. Above all, let’s remember that the root word for discipline means not just to punish, but to train. If we’re only just now starting church discipline, maybe we’re way behind the ball here.
Back to the central topic, I’d suggest that the reason some pastors get depressed is that they’re trying to work an un-Biblical system, and it not surprisingly isn’t working, hence they start to see themselves as the problem.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
When a leader tries to do too much.
[Bert Perry]Agreed with Greg, Jay, and Michael that the husband of that one couple is likely deeper in than just incidental sins and failing to repent of bitterness, and that it likely qualifies as some level of abuse. It also strikes me that in each case, there are questions I’d want to ask. How does the terrible husband drive his kids away from Christ? What does it mean that he is a “terrible human being”. (we all qualify via Romans 3:23, no—there are specifics to act on here, whether Tyler knows them or not) How did the 20 year marriage descend into bitterness—what were the husband and wife hoping for in marriage, and how did they hope to attain it? Why does the young lady identify as “pansexual”?
Questions like that. And while maybe it is in fact better for a couple of couples to simply cut their losses and divorce, I am enough of a hopeful person—a “Pollyanna” if you will—to think that maybe helping them understand who they were, who they are, and who they hope to be might be good. Above all, let’s remember that the root word for discipline means not just to punish, but to train. If we’re only just now starting church discipline, maybe we’re way behind the ball here.
Back to the central topic, I’d suggest that the reason some pastors get depressed is that they’re trying to work an un-Biblical system, and it not surprisingly isn’t working, hence they start to see themselves as the problem.
Bert,
You’ve been reading TylerR for years here. Do you really think he didn’t ask those detailed questions? Give the man some credit. He was sharing the challenges of pastoring, not parsing his counseling cases in full detail.
EDIT: comment deleted
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
[TylerR]I am so happy to hear about how BJU prepared some men here for the realities of pastoral ministry. I am encouraged by BJU and am grateful the Lord continues to bless them under Pettit’s leadership.
Please note: this kind of training would be challenging for online education, in my opinion. Works best (and worked well) on campus.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
[Mark_Smith]Bert,
You’ve been reading TylerR for years here. Do you really think he didn’t ask those detailed questions? Give the man some credit. He was sharing the challenges of pastoring, not parsing his counseling cases in full detail.
Mark, in light of a lot of the comments I’ve seen on threads like this, and in light of experiences I’ve had discussing similar cases in real life, I felt it was important to note that it’s crucial to go beyond a generic accusation. There is also the reality that in many cases, the participants are not going to share the real reasons, or quite frankly in some cases they don’t even know themselves quite why they’re doing things the way they’re doing it. It is a real challenge in many cases to suss this out.
Or, put in other terms, if you think the problem is obvious, you’re just waiting to be blind-sided by reality.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Edited to remove Tyler’s comments since he removed them.
So the little bit that was given above is enough to declare abuse on the part of the husband? Has anyone considered abuse the part of the wife? Has anyone considered that we don’t know enough to say anything?
Gentlemen, why do we jump to conclusions like this about situations we know nothing about? “Slow to speak” is a biblical idea that is an actual quote.
Two people, with a combined 15 months of counseling, say they blamed each other and were bitter. Both say they should divorce (though neither identified a biblical reason). Yet some here, with a couple of minutes and four lines feel qualified to pass judgment? Should not we all see something wrong with that?
So the little bit that was given above is enough to declare abuse on the part of the husband? Has anyone considered abuse the part of the wife? Has anyone considered that we don’t know enough to say anything?
The entire point of my post was to alert Tyler that there may be more to this situation than just two people being bitter. I also specifically mentioned that the wife may be bitter and have issues to work on as well, but if what the man said is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), I’d be very concerned. That’s why I specifically phrased it this way:
“I’m not saying his wife is blameless - you mentioned that she’s bitter - but he is clearly communicating a bigger problem than bitterness.”
Unfortunately, most men in counseling don’t come in and admit their real problem. I have yet to see an abusive spouse come to me and say, “Jay, my real problem is that I have screwed up ideas of authority and abuse my wife as a result.” That would make life a lot easier, but instead we have to parse it out based individual talks. Anyone who’s done pastoral counseling knows this.
Gentlemen, why do we jump to conclusions like this about situations we know nothing about? “Slow to speak” is a biblical idea that is an actual quote.
Because if his solution is to blame her for bitterness when that isn’t the problem at all, it will destroy her faith in pastors and also in God. It may also destroy the children’s faith in God, if there are children present - I don’t know if there are or not. It’s a big deal.
Two people, with a combined 15 months of counseling, say they blamed each other and were bitter. Both say they should divorce (though neither identified a biblical reason). Yet some here, with a couple of minutes and four lines feel qualified to pass judgment? Should not we all see something wrong with that?
No one is ‘passing judgment’ as though we have all the facts. They are Tyler’s congregation, not ours, and I’m accepting his word that bitterness is the real issue. My entire point in my post was to alert him that there may be more going on than what we were told, and that he needs to be careful.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
one reason pastors are tired and depressed is everyone else thinks they are a better counselor, or have a better answer.
1 Co 4:1–4 1 This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me.
Looking back on my counseling efforts, in particular, they were a very mixed experience. Some I’m pretty sure I didn’t help at all. Others, hard to tell. Some certainly were helped. It’s not the kind of work you get to do with a high level of certainty. Well, sometimes, certainty is high—when the facts are clear and the right and wrong/wisdom and folly of the situation are clear. Blessedly, that does happen! But often it’s quite a tangle and you have to just focus on what you know for sure, and deliver that. And the maybe’s… deliver those as maybes.
But I do think pastors should be trained not to measure their value and success in terms of:
- how many people show up
- how many people respond to invitations
- how many counseling situations end in things “all fixed”
- how many people rave about your sermons afterwards
- how often your opinion on a church decision is the option everyone backs at the business meeting
These are all results that may or may not come from your faithfulness. It’s the faithfulness that is your success.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
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