“In my nearly 4 decades of ministry I’ve seen too many families torn apart, marriages disintegrate, children hurt, and untold damage caused because of the exercise of this 'freedom in Christ'”

Good piece.

This quote … “I hate the stuff. I don’t understand the passion some of you guys have for it. I only see the families destroyed, the lives lost, the devastation, detritus, and destruction wrought in the lives of the people I minister to by this stuff. I don’t see the joy of it.”

Truth!

…maybe he needs to revisit the dozens of places where Scripture speaks positively about wine, starting with the 2nd chapter of John. Yes, the Bible speaks against drunkenness, but just about as often, it speaks positively of wine.

From a ministry standpoint, it’s important to understand why people overindulge—as a general rule, it’s not that people get “surprised” by alcohol and all of a sudden are addicted. It is—Russia, native americans, etc..—that people find it a useful way to dull the pain, at least until persistent drunkenness results in alcoholism and the pain is far, far worse. On the flip side, alcoholism is far less prevalent in societies like the Mediterranean nations, where wine and the like is part of joie de vivre.

Worth noting; there is some evidence that Russian young people are far less likely to succumb to drunkenness or alcoholism because they’re drinking mostly wine and beer, much more like Frenchmen or Germans, historically, than Russians. On the flip side, many young people in Italy are getting into trouble because they’ve got pain to dull (25% unemployment among young people, for example), and they’re drawn to mixed drinks with multiple shots of hard liquor.

In other words, why you drink, what you drink, when you drink, with whom you drink, and the like are all critical questions of we really want to help problem drinkers.

Great Article. Fair and honest. I have also pastored for more than 40 years over a large ministry and I echo this man’s observations. I have seen so many die tragic and premature deaths because of alcohol, both in my Mom and Dad’s families, but also in other families. Today I spoke with a woman who wept in my office over this issue with her husband. She is seeing a lawyer tomorrow. They have five children. Destruction, absolute destruction. It is not necessary in a modern society; it does not help people to live soberly; it has enormous potential for enslavement; and it is much more toxic today than in ancient times. Drink if you will, but you might do so to your own peril or the peril of others. I hate the stuff too and always have since I grew up in a drunkard’s home.

I will never understand why so many insist on making a major issue out of this. Yes, you can drink alcohol biblically. I’m not going to debate that.

Whether or not you should is a different matter. A glass of wine in your home with your spouse, in private, where nobody knows about it? Sure, OK. Going to a sports game and getting three or four (financial hit aside) and drinking to the point of being unsafe to drive or otherwise impaired? Talking to your friends and arguing for the “best” kinds? It seems like way too many of our YRR friends have taken the biblical principle of “I can” and turned it into a badge to be flaunted - “I can drink but the rest of you need to grow up and get with it.” It’s the same principle with tobacco and/or marijuana. Yes, you can. It doesn’t mean you should.

There’s just way, way too much danger inherent. Proverbs 23 is there for a reason, folks. It does bite like an adder at the end. So why handle the snake in the first place?

[Jay]

I will never understand why so many insist on making a major issue out of this. Yes, you can drink alcohol biblically. I’m not going to debate that.

Whether or not you should is a different matter. A glass of wine in your home with your spouse, in private, where nobody knows about it? Sure, OK. Going to a sports game and getting three or four (financial hit aside) and drinking to the point of being unsafe to drive or otherwise impaired? Talking to your friends and arguing for the “best” kinds? It seems like way too many of our YRR friends have taken the biblical principle of “I can” and turned it into a badge to be flaunted - “I can drink but the rest of you need to grow up and get with it.” It’s the same principle with tobacco and/or marijuana. Yes, you can. It doesn’t mean you should.

There’s just way, way too much danger inherent. Proverbs 23 is there for a reason, folks. It does bite like an adder at the end. So why handle the snake in the first place?

Like the author of this piece, I just don’t understand why I should drink. Nor, frankly speaking, do I want to understand.

True, the Bible does not have a direct command against alcohol, but it does say it is “Not Wise” (Proverbs 20:1).

I believe “Not Wise” in the Bible carries almost as much weight as a direct statement against.

My sentiments are pretty strongly with the tone of this article. However, I now find myself defending the pro-drinking position by correcting the statement by Mr. Martin. Proverbs 20:1 does not say that drinking alcohol is not wise. (Although that is my personal opinion.) It says that whoever is deceived by wine is not wise. That is an important distinction. If one drinks but never to excess nor in such a way as to cause a brother to stumble, he has not been deceived by wine. If he thinks he can drink safely, but crosses the line into excessive drinking, he has been deceived.

This page could go on and on for a record-setting number of posts with specific anecdotes of people destroyed by addiction to booze. I know of one young man who in his 20s was rescued out of alcohol addition. He was restored to church, marriage rescued, family restored. He grew for a while in the church, but for some reason unknown to me, left that church for a YRR church in the area. The youthful leadership of that church, knowing the man’s background, encouraged him to start drinking again, you know, he was obligated to enjoy the fruits of God’s creation and all that. Do I even need to tell the rest of the story? The man was destroyed. Marriage lost. Family gone. Life ruined.

Concerning being deceived by wine (Proverbs 20:1), the first thing alcohol affects is your judgment. Many a man, after committing the unthinkable, has said, “If I hadn’t been drinking, I never would have done it.” It is best, wise, safe, prudent to be sober.

1 Thessalonians 5:6-8 NKJV

Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

1 Peter 5:8

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

David R. Brumbelow

I could go on and on from all the times I’ve prayed on Wednesday nights for someone suffering from an overdose of…..

FOOD. The CDC backs me up on this; alcohol—generally meaning abuse of alcohol—kills about 88000 people per year. The abuse of food, combined with a lack of exercise, kills 678,000. It is not even close—the only thing remotely close is tobacco, really. If only our circles spent the same energy preaching against gluttony that we spend preaching against alcohol….

With regards to why one would use it, I notice that most commenters are really using anecdotes of people abusing alcohol to impugn using it at all. It is as if I looked around my church and told everyone they could never have another cheeseburger or piece of pizza because I see a number of fat people, and then when those who were not overweight or obese objected, I said that it’s obvious that if you never have the first cheeseburger, cheeseburgers will never make you fat. Well, yes, true, but Scripture hardly commends starvation to us as a Biblical alternative, no?

Same thing with wine. If you look at the actual usage of the word in the Scriptures, what you’ll find is that wine is a regular feature of Hebrew life, used responsibly by the vast majority. In contrast, only about half of Americans use food responsibly, as evidenced by our rates of being overweight or obese. The fact that some advocates of wine don’t adequately understand the realities of addiction does not change that.

So why would one want to drink wine as a Christian? Well, for starters, it’s a good gift of God, and going further, we might note that if indeed it was a regular feature of Hebrew life, learning about the process of making it and enjoying it serves much the same purpose as a trip to Israel; it helps immerse you in the realities of ancient life there.

Is gluttony a sin? Ok. But have you ever seen a person eat a Big Mac then beat up his family when he loses control due to the influence of the “special sauce”? Neither have I.

Have you ever seen a person eat a bag of chips and then drive into a car full of a family, killing them all? Neither have I.

Regarding people blaming alcohol for crime, let’s keep in mind that those crimes are committed while drunk. In short, the perpetrator had already made the decision to sin by drinking to excess. If just a few glasses of wine did the trick, you’d have horrendous results in every wine tasting in the country. They’d shut them down. It’s worth noting as well that responsible bartenders and restaurants cut off people when they’ve had too much.

Again, reality is that these things generally do not “sneak up” on people. Those getting drunk know exactly what they’re doing and why. They sometimes get nasty surprises about the consequences, but sometimes not—they don’t call liquor “liquid courage” for nothing.

And for those who want to cite the passages against drunkenness, here are some passages with speak of wine as a valued offering to God, a blessing from God, and something that rejoices the heart. Brothers, it is all about balance. It makes no sense to blame wine in general for the results of drunkenness than it does to blame cheeseburgers for obesity, guns for murders, or pretty girls for fornication and rape. The person using good gifts from God is responsible to use them responsibly.

Gen. 14:18, Gen. 27:25, 27:28, 49:11 (note reference to Christ), 49:12, Exodus 29:40, Leviticus 23:13, Numbers 15:5, 15:7, 15:10, 18:12, 18:27, 18:30, 28:14, Deuteronomy 7:13, 11:14, 12:17, 14:23, 14:26, 15:14, 18:4, 32:14, 33:28, Judges 9:13, 19:19, Ruth 2:14, 1 Samuel 1:24, 10:3, 16:20, 25:18, 2 Samuel 16:1 &2, 2 Kings 6:27, 18:32, 1 Chronicles 9:29, 12:40, 27:27, 2 Chronicles 2:10, 2:15, 11:11, 31:5, 32:28, Ezra 6:9, 7:22, Nehemiah 2:1, 5:11, 5:18, 8:10, 10:37, 10:39, 13:5, 13:12, Job 1:13, 1:18, 32:19, Psalm 104:15, Proverbs 3:10, Proverbs 9:2, 9:5, Ecclesiastes 9:7, 10:19, Song of Solomon 1:2, 1:4, 4:10, 5:1, 7:2, 7:9, 8:2, Isaiah 5:2, 5:12, 16:10, 24:11, 25:6, 36:17, 55:1, 62:8, 65:8, Jeremiah 31:12, 40:10, 40:12, 48:33, Lamentations 2:12, Ezekiel 27:18, 27:19, Hosea 2:9, 2:22, 9:4, 14:7, Joel 2:19, 2:24, 3:18, Amos 5:11, 9:13 & 14, Micah 6:15, Haggai 2:12, 2:16, Zechariah 9:17, 10:7, 14:10, Matthew 9:17, 21:33, Mark 2:22, 12:1, Luke 5:37-39, 7:33, 10:34, John 2:3-10, 4:46, 1 Timothy 5:23

[G. N. Barkman]

My sentiments are pretty strongly with the tone of this article. However, I now find myself defending the pro-drinking position by correcting the statement by Mr. Martin. Proverbs 20:1 does not say that drinking alcohol is not wise. (Although that is my personal opinion.) It says that whoever is deceived by wine is not wise. That is an important distinction. If one drinks but never to excess nor in such a way as to cause a brother to stumble, he has not been deceived by wine. If he thinks he can drink safely, but crosses the line into excessive drinking, he has been deceived.

“Deceived”—coerced into believing something that isn’t true or disbelieving something that is. It is a legitimate translation of the verse. Just because no harm happened does not mean that deception hasn’t taken place. Deception speaks to purpose whether the end of that purpose is realized or not.

To make a point: Fred/Wilma is a scorner. He/she is characterized in the same manner as the whore of Prov. 7 or the proverbial foolish woman of Prov 9 (the one whose goal is to seduce the simple and ignorant into all manner of wrong-doing). If you don’t believe it you’re a fool (deliberately not wise).

There would be absolutely no discussion about the rightness/wrongness of anyone’s abhorrence if Fred/Wilma was the subject because we all are crystal clear as to the proper reaction to the scorner and clamorous seductress. Mess with Fred/Wilma you’re a fool whether or not Fred/Wilma accomplishes their purpose.

Allow some influence from Fred/Wilma and we’re legitimately spiritually arrogant twits. Allow some influence from beverage alcohol and we’re of the spiritual elites.

Not sure why we’re so eager to defend the indefensible in the case of alcohol when we’d happily cast Fred/Wilma into outer darkness for the fools or scorners that they are. Not seeing it.

Christian integrity demands that we interpret the Bible accurately, not try to make it say what we think it ought to say. In the case of wine, the Bible allows moderate use, but forbids drunkenness. I cannot forbid what the Bible allows. I can and should issue Biblical warnings about the deceptive nature of wine and the sin of drunkenness.

Christians often have difficulty separating personal opinion from Biblical teaching. My own personal opinion is that I choose to abstain from alcohol and I recommend that to others as a matter of safety. However, I cannot force my personal opinion upon others, nor scold them if they choose to exercise a legitimate Christian liberty responsibly. I am heart broken by those who are ensnared into alcohol addiction. I use their condition to help explain why I recommend abstinence. But I may not use their example to teach something contrary to what the Bible teaches. Integrity demands scrupulous honesty in Biblical exegesis. Drunkenness is a grievous sin. Moderate use is an allowable liberty.

Bert’s food analogy is helpful but is not apples to apples. Moderate eating is good. (And unlike wine, is necessary.) Over-eating is gluttony and sinful. (Although unlike wine, it does not cause a drug induced state that leads to many grievous ills.) Though helpful, it is not exactly the same. I can choose to abstain from wine as a matter of personal preference. I cannot choose to abstain from food.

[G. N. Barkman]

Christian integrity demands that we interpret the Bible accurately, not try to make it say what we think it ought to say. In the case of wine, the Bible allows moderate use, but forbids drunkenness. I cannot forbid what the Bible allows. I can and should issue Biblical warnings about the deceptive nature of wine and the sin of drunkenness.