Tullian Tchividjian Starts New Church After Affairs

One complicating factor now a days is that if a pastor has an affair with a woman in his church, it’s no longer considered just adultery but clergy sexual abuse. Victim rights advocates claim (wrong or right) that there cannot be a consensual relationship when there is an imbalance of power. In this case, the pastor wielded spiritual authority over his parishioner while engaging in the adulterous relationship.

In the case of my church, the adulteress and her family left the church before the affair went public but now claims she was a victim of clergy sexual abuse and is not morally responsible for the affair. And, now she is a public crusader against clergy sexual abuse, stalks the former pastor online, and continues to attack our church and its current leadership.

What a mess…

Really, anytime a pastor is single and wants to date, there is the question of whether the date is occurring because of his authority, or because she wants to spend time with him/get to know him. So even in the best of situations, there is a need for accountability which is similar to when a boss wants to date his secretary—and for that reason, a lot of companies prohibit the latter explicitly. The prestige and authority of the pastor’s position is simply something you cannot ignore. It may not be always abusive—that would drive a lot of single men out of the pastorate in a hurry, no?—but it has that strong possibility.

In the case of an adulterous relationship, I think the argument is even stronger, because we know a priori that if the best position for a woman is as a wife, then the woman who accepts an adulterer is ipso facto accepting an inferior product, and we need to ask why. Put another way, my tendency is to take the woman Tom mentions at her word unless she really demonstrates her testimony is flawed, simply because the issue of spiritual authority is so front and center in any relationship with a pastor, and moreover because we know a priori that the woman was persuaded somehow to take an inferior relationship.

Date someone outside of your church. Simple.

…you’ve still got the title and the implied spiritual authority that goes with it. What you propose would help, Mark, in the direct spiritual authority area, but on the flip side, it might actually hurt in the accountability area. For reference, I believe that the woman bedded by Tullian was outside his church, and still feels that he abused his position to get what he got. To whom much is given, much is required, no?

Tullian is a flat out pervert.

If I am a single pastor (never married) I’ll date who I please (outside of divorced women and minors) and its none of your business. That’s my answer.

Regarding the allegation that Kim Tchividjian cheated first, I’m not persuaded.

To me, this whole point is both laughable and embarrassing. Your wife cheated on you first, so that makes it OK? Seriously? Is that the defense you really want to mount?

If your wife cheated on you with someone else, doesn’t that mean that maybe things are bad enough at home that you shouldn’t be leading a church? And maybe that your attentions ought to be focused elsewhere?

The death of common sense pays gruesome dividends at times. Sigh.

For reference, I believe that the woman bedded by Tullian was outside his church, and still feels that he abused his position to get what he got.

If I understand correctly, she was coming to him for counseling and he seduced her. Either way, it’s still wrong and bars him from ministry forever.

Seriously, there’s a great book on this subject called The Stain That Stays.

[Mark_Smith]

Tullian is a flat out pervert.

If I am a single pastor (never married) I’ll date who I please (outside of divorced women and minors) and its none of your business. That’s my answer.

For starters, as it’s my impression you’re married, I’m hoping this is never a question for you. But that noted, it strikes me that “none of your business” attitudes in various areas is precisely what led to the initial tragedy here. There are many things you might want as a prospective pastor, but that is not one of them.

Let’s draw the picture. When TT started at Coral Ridge Presbyterian, he was slender, wore suits (vs. vestments favored by D. James Kennedy), tan but not excessively so, and was lauded as less political than his predecessor. About eight or ten years back, he started bodybuilding, concentrating on the muscles in front and around the shoulders that you see from behind the pulpit, and moreover tanning, getting tattoos, changing his wardrobe to show off those “guns”, etc..He also was making full use of his fame and notoriety with a full writing and travel schedule.

Now taken alone, there’s not anything wrong with any of these in moderation, but when you put ‘em all together, you’ve got clear signs of a midlife crisis. Just needs a sports car or motorcycle to complete the picture, really. And that’s when you want people to step in and intervene before things get really bad. A former friend of mine inaugurated his midlife crisis through reckless spending—and ended up the same place as Tullian. This is really something churches need to get a grip on.

If…

That means, “if” I were a single pastor, and a person like you tried to tell me who I could or couldn’t date… well, it wouldn’t go well.

As for being a divorced pastor, well, that is non-sensical and unbiblical.

Oh, and Bert, the churches that hire Tullian’s couldn’t care less what you think!

[Bert Perry] For starters, as it’s my impression you’re married, I’m hoping this is never a question for you. But that noted, it strikes me that “none of your business” attitudes in various areas is precisely what led to the initial tragedy here. There are many things you might want as a prospective pastor, but that is not one of them.

Here is a problem with the “pastor should not date / marry someone in his congregation or its spiritual abuse” camp. This position actually serves to deny that adult women can make consensual, informed choices about their relationships just because there is an authority differential present. Apparently, adult women just can’t say “no” to someone who has a real or perceived authority over them.

Does this deny that men in authority have used their authority to manipulate, cajole, and threaten adult women into relationships that were not consensual? Not at all. But, it does deny the feminist ideology that unless adult women share equal authority with men in a relationship they are sequacious, helpless victims.

[T Howard]

Bert Perry wrote:For starters, as it’s my impression you’re married, I’m hoping this is never a question for you. But that noted, it strikes me that “none of your business” attitudes in various areas is precisely what led to the initial tragedy here. There are many things you might want as a prospective pastor, but that is not one of them.

Here is a problem with the “pastor should not date / marry someone in his congregation or its spiritual abuse” camp. This position actually serves to deny that adult women can make consensual, informed choices about their relationships just because there is an authority differential present. Apparently, adult women just can’t say “no” to someone who has a real or perceived authority over them.

Does this deny that men in authority have used their authority to manipulate, cajole, and threaten adult women into relationships that were not consensual? Not at all. But, it does deny the feminist ideology that unless adult women share equal authority with men in a relationship they are sequacious, helpless victims.

For my previous statements on this, see here. I don’t (and won’t) argue that single pastors should never date in their own congregation. What I will argue is that given the tremendous authority of the pastorate, you definitely want some level of accountability to avoid problems. I would further suggest that part of TT’s workout/bodybuilding rationale may have been as a barrier to his elders/congregation holding him accountable—basic intimidation, really.

Accountability, and the process of elders/deacons/congregants asking about one’s relationships, has the down side of feeling rather intrusive. On the up side, when people feel free to talk to a man about such things, they just might introduce him to a nice young lady. I know it’s an American thing to try and be the rugged individual, but I just don’t know that it’s what we want Biblically.