New Book: To the Praise of His Glory - A Biography of the Cederholms

Maranatha: "With the Cedarholm generation nearly gone, it is time their story is told." Find more info and order the book here or here

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Rob Fall's picture

Got it late this afternoon. I'm up to the early fifties so far. It gives a nice overview

  • of the issues and causes of the break between the NBC and the CBA.
  • of the early structure of the CBA and the philosophy behind it.

The book also documents Dr. and Mrs. Cedarholm's academic bona fides. He taught Greek at Eastern.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

TylerR's picture

Editor

I know some people who have very hard feeling about Cederholm. I'm not terribly interested in the minutiae of fundamentalist Baptist politics in the mid-1960s; it's far too depressing and demoralizing. This was the era of "big men," and big men like to fight with each other. All in all, I don't find those discussions very edifying.

I enjoyed Bauder's first book on Northern Baptist fundamentalism (when will the next come out!?) because the focus was on theological revisionism; the "original fundamentalism." I don't look upon the Baptist fundamentalist fratricide of the post-war period as an era worth memorializing.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Rob Fall's picture

then I highly recommend this book. I think if any one man was the proximate cause of the CBA debacle it was Vernon Grounds. Read the book to find out.

Remember, I'm a native San Franciscan. The only time I spent in Wisconsin is the four years I was at MBBC. And since Dr. Cedarholm's brother married my first pastor Arno Q. Wenigar, Sr.'s sister, this is hardly a hotbed of anti-Cedarholm sentiment.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

TylerR's picture

Editor

The guy I talked to, an older fundamentalist associated with the GARBC (national), said it was all Cederholm's fault! I plan on buying the book because it was written by Dr. Oats, who I admire. It also chronicles an important of Baptist fundamentalist history. the infighting just depresses me, sometimes. I had a similar reaction to portions of Bauder's book, too.  

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Rob Fall's picture

with Dr. Cedarholm? From the book, Dr. C had minimal contact but friendly contact with the GARBC.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

Ron Bean's picture

The GARBC left the NBC in 1932 (?). The other group stayed in, eventually forming the CBA which was not as militant as Cedarholm and others thought they should be, leading them to leave the CBA and the rift with Grounds. I recall some GARBC men explaining to me, "we left and they stayed in until they were thrown out"  and faulting the CBA's allowing churches to be members of both the CBA and the NBC.  These separate types of beginnings caused a certain tense feeling between brethren during the 60's and 70's. My recollections are open to correction by Baptist historians while I blame it on my inability to get any good ginkgo biloba. 

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

Rob Fall's picture

that's kinda sorta what happened. Part of the reason for the CBA allowing dual membership was the way the NBC structured its ministerial pension system. If a pastor and church fully split from the NBC its ministers lost their pension and whatever they had contributed. Churches also found that if they left the Convention after taking funds from the NBHMS, the convention had a lien on the property. A congregation either had to repay the funds or walk away from the property. The Convention was also not above stacking a congregation's business meeting.

The defeat of the conservative resurgence in the NBC is a reason many Northern IFBs are pessimistic in regards to the SBC.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

TylerR's picture

Editor

Don't know what the beef is, and don't really care. This is the kind of unedifying fratricide I don't like reading about. I've had enough of that in my own pastoral ministry! I'll read the book because it gives a good snapshot of an era, from my orbit, and gives background about how MBU was founded.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Rob Fall's picture

you'll find there were reasonable causes behind each of the splits. However, problems arose when men sought to re-fight the last war at a later date. And if you don't really care what the beef is why bring it up?

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

Ron Bean's picture

I recall a sermon at BJU by Stewart Custer titled "Fractured Fundamentalism" in the mid 1970's. While the KJV division was in its infancy, there was an uncomfortable (to me) distance between fundamentalists. GARBC, FBF, BJU, GARBC schools, PCC, BBF, Free Presbyterians, Ohio Bible Fellowship, IFCA, the Midwest Independent Baptists, Carl McIntire, etc. were generally acquainted but not close friends or considered family. 

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

TylerR's picture

Editor

Have no fear; I will read the book.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

pvawter's picture

It's funny how the GARBC considered themselves the "real" separatists when compared to the CBA. My dad was told pretty much the same thing by the national rep when he pastored a GARB church in the 70s. Always sounded like a "no true Scotsman" fallacy to me.

TylerR's picture

Editor

Who were the "real separatists," back then? Don't care.

Who are the "real separatists," now? Don't care. 

I'd rather just worry about myself and apply appropriate lessons learned from men from days gone by who did the best they could, in their own context. 

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

pvawter's picture

Tyler, I agree it doesn't matter who has claim to the label, but it does matter that the same mistakes of the past are repeated by those who are ignorant of the history. This tends to happen on all sides. Fundies re-fight an old war, and non-separatists cozy up to unbelievers. Having seen the results of new evangelicalism's split with the fundamentalists, I'm sure not in favor of pursuing new evangelicalism 2.0. Then again, I find some of the fundamentalist reactions to be over the top and silly, so I don't want a return to the "good old days" either. I'm just going to keep on tilling my patch in the garden and trust God to watch over the "movement."

Rob Fall's picture

on the book in a couple of days in a separate thread. However, I've read enough to say,  While the Cedarholms are heroes of the book, Dr, Oats does not paint anyone in particular as a villain. So, much of what Tyler dislikes doesn't appear in To The Praise of His Glory.

'Sides, Tyler, I think you said you studied at MBU under Dr. Oats. Your fears don't apply to the man I know.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

TylerR's picture

Editor

As I said, I don't particularly care about who is and who isn't a villain. I just don't find re-hashes of fratricidal Baptist fundamentalist wars edifying. I find them depressing and demoralizing. As I also said, I'll buy and read the book sometime this year. I hope it is edifying. To the extent it avoids chronicling the cannibalistic Baptist fundy wars of the mid-20th century, I'll enjoy it. 

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Rob Fall's picture

after reading the book, I can say Dr. Oats doesn't rehash the fights. Its focus is on the Cedarholms and their life of ministry. It mentions what's going on around them but not to rehash the controversy. More in my report later.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

TylerR's picture

Editor

Good to know! 

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Rob Fall's picture

From the book, I learned the proximate cause of the  Cedarholm\Clearwaters rift was the campusing of a pair of male students. The parents appealed to friends on Pillsbury's Board. The board members went to Clearwaters for a reversal. Cedarholm said no. Dr. Oats makes the point that  Dr. Cedarholm had never worked "for" anybody. So, we're off to the races.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

TylerR's picture

Editor

it begins ... 

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Rob Fall's picture

It ended thirty + years ago. I don't know where the animus towards Dr. C comes from. In my four years of Chapel at MBBC (77-81), I can only remember him speaking negatively about four men, Jerry Falwell and the Pseudo-Fundamentalists,  Jack van Impe, Bill Gothard and his Basic Youth stuff, and Billy Graham.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

TylerR's picture

Editor

I have no animus! I know nothing about the guy.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Rob Fall's picture

read the book and learn. FWIW, I was Dr. C's driver when I was in school. So, I knew him a little better than most. It's just that your posts have had a negative tinge to them.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

TylerR's picture

Editor

I plan to read the book. I'm the editor who posted this filing. As I said above, to the extent it avoids chronicling the fratricidal fundy wars of yesteryear and avoiding hagiography, I will enjoy it very much. 

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

pvawter's picture

Rob Fall wrote:

From the book, I learned the proximate cause of the  Cedarholm\Clearwaters rift was the campusing of a pair of male students. The parents appealed to friends on Pillsbury's Board. The board members went to Clearwaters for a reversal. Cedarholm said no. Dr. Oats makes the point that  Dr. Cedarholm had never worked "for" anybody. So, we're off to the races.

Yeah, that's pretty much how my dad described it to me. He was at Pills when it all went down and found himself following Dr. C to Wttn that fall. He told me the story a few years back, and I'm looking forward to reading more about the Cedarholms when I get a chance to pick up the book.

Rob Fall's picture

Regretfully, the full story really didn't make it out into general circulation. I look at is as the same way Steve Jobs was forced from Apple back in the day. All I knew as a Californian was Pillsbury never played MBBC in any varsity sport.

pvawter wrote:

 

Rob Fall wrote:

 

From the book, I learned the proximate cause of the  Cedarholm\Clearwaters rift was the campusing of a pair of male students. The parents appealed to friends on Pillsbury's Board. The board members went to Clearwaters for a reversal. Cedarholm said no. Dr. Oats makes the point that  Dr. Cedarholm had never worked "for" anybody. So, we're off to the races.

 

 

Yeah, that's pretty much how my dad described it to me. He was at Pills when it all went down and found himself following Dr. C to Wttn that fall. He told me the story a few years back, and I'm looking forward to reading more about the Cedarholms when I get a chance to pick up the book.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..