FBFI warns of BJU "change of policy regarding the separation"

[josh p]

Don, not sure if your including me in that group or not but since I specifically asked you in my first post I guess I’ll assume that it’s an “orbit” issue not a secondary separation one. By the way I wholeheartedly agree that secondary separation is biblical and was hoping the answer would be something like that.

no offense at your question, to be sure.

I don’t like the term secondary separation, exactly, but I agree that what it describes is sometimes necessary.

As for this issue, it remains to be seen where erstwhile fundamentalist institutions end up. Nothing ever stays the same, things change, and new coalitions, positions emerge all the time.

Personally, I wonder what is the point of BJU if it becomes just another evangelical school. What would motivate attendance if there are larger, better funded, etc evangelical schools to attend?

[Jim]

Don Johnson wrote:

Interesting to note the SI headline. [“warns”] Where is the warning? Where is the attack? I would characterize this as an observation, neither a warning or an attack. The fact that the subject matter calls for some expertise is acknowledged, but clearly the use of speakers who are outside of BJU’s historic “orbit” with no disclaimer of any kind seems to be a change in past policy. No change to that policy has been announced, so that makes the item news worthy.

Is this an observation of a positive change of policy? Or a negative change of policy? What’s the FBFI position?

I don’t speak for the FBFI. There is no position on this at this time. If the board chooses to take a position on this or any issue, it would be announced publicly when taken.

this post is observing an event that differs from past practice

I consider your headline to be a cheap shot. You are editorializing, not reporting.

[Jim]

Don Johnson wrote:

I wonder what is the point of BJU if it becomes just another evangelical school. What would motivate attendance if there are larger, better funded, etc evangelical schools to attend?

A “warning” or an “observation”?

another cheap shot. You left out a key word, “Personally”

you would make the MSM proud, you really would

If “secondary” separation means separation from other Christians who are engaged in unrepentant sin, I’m a proponent.

What sin/act of disobedience necessitates separation from these men? People really want to know and deserve an answer.

[Don Johnson]

josh p wrote:

Don, not sure if your including me in that group or not but since I specifically asked you in my first post I guess I’ll assume that it’s an “orbit” issue not a secondary separation one. By the way I wholeheartedly agree that secondary separation is biblical and was hoping the answer would be something like that.

no offense at your question, to be sure.

I don’t like the term secondary separation, exactly, but I agree that what it describes is sometimes necessary.

As for this issue, it remains to be seen where erstwhile fundamentalist institutions end up. Nothing ever stays the same, things change, and new coalitions, positions emerge all the time.

Personally, I wonder what is the point of BJU if it becomes just another evangelical school. What would motivate attendance if there are larger, better funded, etc evangelical schools to attend?

Yeah I don’t like the term either but let’s face it that’s the one that has been adopted. I agree that BJU seems to be losing its distinctiveness. Some of that I think is a good thing and some maybe not. That’s why I was asking; to understand what the objection was.

Is this a change for BJU? I see this as more inline with the South Korean children’s conference, Tim Tebow and others. In fact, I see it even less like those, since the concern here is now “orbit” (a vague definition at best) and not an apostate or someone who even participates with apostates. This is beyond secondary separation scenarios.

What does BJU become, I believe Don asked? I think it becomes a historically fundamentalist college that leans a little more toward conservative evangelicalism than certain groups that have stayed perfectly still. I think in the past there were really a lot more “experts” within fundamentalism and very little conservative in the evangelical circle. What you see is that fundamentalism is waning and there are a lot more conservative evangelicals that are more aligned to us than the broader evangelical world.

I would love to see 1) how many churches align with the FBFI today than say the mid-1980’s and 2) would love to see the average age of participants at an FBFI conference today than what it was in the mid-1980’s.

So Kevin Schaal says this:

While we understand the purpose in presenting these speakers, this clearly appears to be a change of policy for BJU regarding the separation position and practice of the institution and the speakers the university promotes. (KSchaal)

And then Don protests on SI:

Interesting to note the SI headline. Jay characterized this as an “attack” on our Facebook post.

Where is the warning? Where is the attack? I would characterize this as an observation, neither a warning or an attack. The fact that the subject matter calls for some expertise is acknowledged, but clearly the use of speakers who are outside of BJU’s historic “orbit” with no disclaimer of any kind seems to be a change in past policy. No change to that policy has been announced, so that makes the item news worthy.

If the President of the FBFI is going to make an post about BJU ‘appearing’ to make a change to their policy on separation and then Don doesn’t read the headline as an attack on the school, I don’t know what to say. You can’t charge BJU with making changes on separation issues and then stand back and say that you didn’t mean it as an attack. Sheesh.

This is not nearly the first time that BJU has brought in speakers ‘outside of BJU’s historic orbit’. Some of those speakers have been debated on SharperIron by Don and others over this very thing at the time it happened (Tebow, etc, as others have noted). BJU has been bringing in people outside of ‘BJU’s historic orbit’ since at least Pettit took over the Presidency, and possibly since Stephen Jones was in charge. So either some people don’t understand what they’re doing or they don’t understand BJU’s history.

As for predictable - well, if the FBFI would stop shooting itself in the foot by picking fights with it’s erstwhile constituency, then maybe there wouldn’t need to be protests. But the organization has always been tone deaf to what anyone who would have supported them thinks.

Finally, I suppose I should thank Bros. Shaal and Johnson - I’d never heard of Harvest USA before today. Now I’m going to pass the name along to the leaders in our church and see if they would be willing to come give a presentation to our church body.

On the FB thread, from Matthew Recker:

Jay, try to contain your sarcasm to the expression of concern in this post and I do not even read an “attack.” This invite does demonstrate a clear shift in BJU’s long held practice of separation from the SBC, and yes, there is much concern among those who believe the long held practice is still right. Do you want BJU to go the way of NBBC? It really is not a time for mockery but soberness.

and from another person:

I would very much appreciate a response to the lead-in comment above, specifically “…this [is] unavoidably appears to be a change of policy for BJU regarding the separation position and practice…” from Bob Jones University for clarification.

[Jay]

if the FBFI would stop shooting itself in the foot by picking fights with it’s erstwhile constituency, then maybe there wouldn’t need to be protests. But the organization has always been tone deaf to what anyone who would have supported them thinks.

When the FBFI Board goes after the KJV-Only/Preferred crowd at its annual meeting (Gospel Coalition contributor Mark Ward’s speech) and then questions BJU’s new separation standards on its blog (FBFI President Kevin Schaal’s post), then it has effectively offended most of its membership.

If you sit on a fence, you’ll get shot from both sides. Sadly, the FBFI may become an illustration of this old saying (which may be from Dr. Bob Jones, Sr.).

They are headquarted in Philly. We’ve had John Freeman in for men’s Bible study on one of his books and in church to preach. It is a unique and helpful ministry dealing with contemporary issues. I don’t know any group doing it at their level.