Why Marijuana Should Remain Illegal

You have made at least three assertions which you believe to be facts, but to which you offer no support.

Ancients knew and practiced multiple ways of preserving unfermented wine. It was available throughout the year.

Unfermented wine or grape juice has many, probably more, healthy properties than alcoholic wine; without the harmful side effects.

3. Strictly for medicinal purposes.

The third of these, I would argue that Paul is not conceding that Timothy may, if he so desires, consume some alcohol, but is in fact admonishing him to drink it. This passage cannot be construed to mean that this is the only occasion upon which the consumption of alcohol is permitted. However, the case can be made that there is at least one occasion on which its consumption is commanded.

On a different note, I would be curious to hear from the abstentionists how they explain Psalm 104:15 how unfermented wine produces a gladdening effect on the heart of man. I do not know of this effect happening over a glass of Welch’s, but perhaps someone else has a different experience.

and I read physics stuff written for “mere laymen” so as to get insight. I guess so called “theologians” are above that in alex o’s world!

Enjoy your wine and toke dude! Someone pass him the cheetos;-)

As our society heads further into godless paganism, we can expect to see more liberal social policies regarding sex (LGBTQ for example) and drugs. People are living for the moment, the high, the experience. They are looking for escape anyway they can find it. All of this behavior hurts society and affects the social climate in which we raise our families, lead our churches, and run our schools. I am concerned about drunk drivers and mentally impaired drivers. They needlessly kill thousands of people every year. None of us want our surgeons, pilots, dentists, pastors, police officers, magistrates to be using these substances while they are employing their craft.

Drug-dealers, dope-addicts, Mexican cartels are not the good guys. They are harming our neighborhoods, our families, ruining communities, and causing the downfall of legitimate commercial enterprise. The fact I have to state the obvious proves how corrupt our society has become. For a Christian drugs such as marijuana distort our minds, pervert our judgment and defile our temple. The curse has effected creation, our bodies, our natures. Just because God made something does not give us the right to abuse it or use it for evil ends. Dave’s article is helpful.

jeremiahsa,

Perhaps you would be interested in the following article:

“Does grape juice offer the same heart benefits as red wine?

Answers from Katherine Zeratsky, R.D., L.D.

Possibly. Some research studies suggest that red and purple grape juices may provide some of the same heart benefits of red wine, including:

Reducing the risk of blood clots

Reducing low-density lipoprotein (LDL, or “bad”) cholesterol

Preventing damage to blood vessels in your heart

Helping maintain a healthy blood pressure

Grapes are rich in health-protecting antioxidants, including resveratrol and flavonoids. These antioxidants are found mainly in the skin, stem, leaf and seeds of grapes, rather than in their pulp.

The amount of antioxidants in grapes depends on many factors, including the kind of grape, its geographic origin and how it’s processed. Dark red and purple grapes tend to be higher in antioxidants than are white or green grapes. Likewise, the level of antioxidants, such as resveratrol found in wine, varies with higher levels in red wine.

Besides grape juice, other grape products, including dealcoholized wine, grape extracts and grape powder, may offer health benefits.

Keep in mind that it’s also beneficial to eat whole grapes — not just grape juice. Some research suggests that whole grapes deliver the same amount of antioxidants that are in grape juice and wine but have the added benefit of providing dietary fiber”

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/e…

David R. Brumbelow

Mike,

Legalizing drugs would immediately take away income from many Mexican cartels and terrorist organizations. It would eliminate a black market and bring it into the light of day. There are no more Mexican alcohol cartels, cigarette cartels, etc. because these are legal. Just a thought.

My suggestion: end the war on drugs, and double down on investigation, prosecution, and prison time for DUI, theft, murder, rape, etc.

One thing is for certain, drug prohibition should not be a federal issue. It should be left to the states.

Actually, ancient people had multiple ways of preserving unfermented wine. Just because we don’t know those methods, doesn’t mean they did not know.

They accomplished this without pasteurization and refrigeration. Although, at times they came very close to pasteurization.

Methods used in Bible times to preserve unfermented wine.

1. Boiling down fresh wine to a thick consistency that would not spoil or ferment. When ready to drink, they simply added water. This thick, strong wine (grape molasses, pekmez, vincotto) was also used for cooking.

I have some of this grape molasses. Although it says to refrigerate after opening, I purposely kept it at room temperature. After over two years it was still fresh, unspoiled, and unfermented.

2. The grape harvest lasted six months and certain type grapes would keep fresh for months. These grapes could be pressed into wine at any time of the year (Genesis 40:11).

3. Dried grapes or raisins were re-hydrated and pressed into fresh un-intoxicating wine, a practice used by many Jews right up to modern times. Ancient warriors were issued cakes of dried grapes to make their own wine as needed.

4. Nonalcoholic wine was also preserved with salt and lactic fermentation.

“Ancient Wine and the Bible” goes into great detail, quoting ancient and modern sources, on these methods.

There is also a little more on this at:

http://gulfcoastpastor.blogspot.com/2010/10/preserving-unfermented-wine…

David R. Brumbelow

[Mike Harding]

None of us want our surgeons, pilots, dentists, pastors, police officers, magistrates to be using these substances while they are employing their craft.

You like rollmops too?

I thought I was done and am now but want to point out the tactics of the prohibitionists: nobody has even intimated this in the thread what you assert. Not one argument that prohibitionists offer really holds any water on this debate. Sometime what is said is true but it doesn’t really apply to the overall debate. Talk amongst yourselves as your methods are transparent.

[Mike Harding]

As our society heads further into godless paganism, we can expect to see more liberal social policies regarding sex (LGBTQ for example) and drugs. People are living for the moment, the high, the experience. They are looking for escape anyway they can find it. All of this behavior hurts society and affects the social climate in which we raise our families, lead our churches, and run our schools. I am concerned about drunk drivers and mentally impaired drivers. They needlessly kill thousands of people every year. None of us want our surgeons, pilots, dentists, pastors, police officers, magistrates to be using these substances while they are employing their craft.

Drug-dealers, dope-addicts, Mexican cartels are not the good guys. They are harming our neighborhoods, our families, ruining communities, and causing the downfall of legitimate commercial enterprise. The fact I have to state the obvious proves how corrupt our society has become. For a Christian drugs such as marijuana distort our minds, pervert our judgment and defile our temple. The curse has effected creation, our bodies, our natures. Just because God made something does not give us the right to abuse it or use it for evil ends. Dave’s article is helpful.

Once again, marijuana kills a few thousand people annually (assuming its implications in traffic accidents and such are verified), alcohol about 88,000 and the standard U.S. diet and lack of exercise kills over half a million people from heart disease and another 200,000 from diabetes. Being a quality engineer by trade, I start with #1 on the Pareto. Let’s end corn, sugar, and dairy subsidies, and then we can start looking at lesser factors.

Interesting side note; some claim that George Washington’s diary indicates that he separated male and female hemp plants, which makes no difference in the quality of the fiber. However, it does increase the amount of THC in the female plants. Was somebody smoking it?

That said, I have no objection to banning certain drugs if the danger of them really does surpass a certain threshold. I see that with heroin, morphine, crystal meth, and some other drugs—they are physically addicting (not just habit-forming), and the physical effects are far greater. People die of heroin overdoses, for example. I just don’t see that with marijuana.

[David R. Brumbelow]

jeremiahsa,

Perhaps you would be interested in the following article:

“Does grape juice offer the same heart benefits as red wine?

Answers from Katherine Zeratsky, R.D., L.D.

Possibly. Some research studies suggest that red and purple grape juices may provide some of the same heart benefits of red wine, including:

Reducing the risk of blood clots

Reducing low-density lipoprotein (LDL, or “bad”) cholesterol

Preventing damage to blood vessels in your heart

Helping maintain a healthy blood pressure

Grapes are rich in health-protecting antioxidants, including resveratrol and flavonoids. These antioxidants are found mainly in the skin, stem, leaf and seeds of grapes, rather than in their pulp.

The amount of antioxidants in grapes depends on many factors, including the kind of grape, its geographic origin and how it’s processed. Dark red and purple grapes tend to be higher in antioxidants than are white or green grapes. Likewise, the level of antioxidants, such as resveratrol found in wine, varies with higher levels in red wine.

Besides grape juice, other grape products, including dealcoholized wine, grape extracts and grape powder, may offer health benefits.

Keep in mind that it’s also beneficial to eat whole grapes — not just grape juice. Some research suggests that whole grapes deliver the same amount of antioxidants that are in grape juice and wine but have the added benefit of providing dietary fiber”

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/ex…

David R. Brumbelow

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comments. I sincerely doubt that I will persuade an abstentionist of the moderationist position or that an abstentionist will persuade me of theirs, but when I studied the Scriptures prior to becoming a moderationist a few years ago, it is possible that there were facts that I missed. I think this is why it is vital to document sources in this debate.

I do hope that my abstentionist brethren will consider their methods in the light of the Scriptures as carefully as (or more carefully than) they consider their positions. Far be it from me to cause my brother to stumble by offering him a drink in his weakness. Using civil prohibition as a means to force moderationists to be abstentionists is not a means authorized by Scripture. This applies both to alcohol and any other drug. Let us allow the Holy Spirit to work as we disciple others to be like Christ. If you believe in your heart that alcohol is wrong for a Christian, you would be sinning not to disciple that way. What I object to here is merely the use of government to aid in discipleship.

Another point that keeps coming up should be addressed. No one (and I mean no one!) advocates that driving while intoxicated should be legalized. The deaths due to marijuana and alcohol intoxication while driving are tragic, but we have a problem here with enforcement, not with lack of law. Let us not send SWAT teams into people’s homes to raid their marijuana while they are at home instead of spending those resources enforcing DUI and DWI laws. The logic behind prohibition is the same whether it is guns or alcohol or marijuana. We have laws to make murder illegal, but making guns illegal will not prevent murder. We have laws against DUI, but making marijuana illegal does not prevent DUI.

Regarding Timothy’s illnesses,if indeed grape harvest lasted six months and any grape product would have been sufficient for Timothy’s ailments, Paul would have told Timothy simply to eat grapes or raisins. Paul instead tells a young man to drink wine.

Since a young man’s biggest health risks back in that day were malnutrition and infection, only wine would do, because unfermented foods do not kill bacteria, and boiling destroys vitamin C and other vitamins. So grape molasses is right out. The only one of David’s methods that might work would be lactic fermentation, but you would also get yeast from the same place you get lactobacillus—the air. So that would be alcoholic, too.

When you legalize something like marijuana, it only increases its use and thus its needless damage. The cartels will simply put more of their energy into harder drugs. Dairy, sugar, corn are normal parts of a legitimate diet. Agreed, we eat too much of it; nevertheless, life spans keep expanding for both men and women compared to generations ago when obesity rates were less. Yes, we should all exercise more, but that doesn’t mean we should ban cars. We are dealing with an increasingly dangerous substance which used recreationally causes harm physically, psychologically, intellectually, and societally. Nothing good will come about by legalizing it. The legalization will legitimize its use among the puerile and naive.

[QUOTE=Mike Harding] Nothing good will come about by legalizing it.[/QUOTE]

Fewer people would be in jail.

Fewer 4th Amendment violations by police.

Reduced crime at the border.

Industrial Hemp business in the US (jobs).

Reduced pressure on police, more assets for real crime.

Increased sales tax revenue for states when it is taken off the black (non-taxed) market.

Somehow, the command for personal holiness has been lost in this entire discussion. I am disappointed in anybody who wants to argue that recreational marijuana use is a holy and acceptable activity. Consider the holiness required of OT priests to minister in the tabernacle and the temple, and then realize that we are individual priests who can approach God directly, and our bodies are new tabernacles of our Holy God under the New Covenant.

Legalizing drugs would immediately take away income from many Mexican cartels and terrorist organizations. It would eliminate a black market and bring it into the light of day. There are no more Mexican alcohol cartels, cigarette cartels, etc. because these are legal. Just a thought.

So you think the drug cartels will just roll over? Is there no black market for anything legal? Cigarettes is an interesting comparison. States with high cig taxes have a huge black market. CBS News reported that more than 1/2 of cigarettes in New York are smuggled in and sold under the table. So whatever the merits/demerits of legalization of drugs might be, it probably will not kill the drug cartels or the black market. It might increase it because there is no longer a fear of prosecution for use or for selling.

Fewer people would be in jail.

Perhaps, but not an appreciable amount. Very few people are in prison for marijuana alone, and most are for growing or dealing, not for using. But this argument could be made for any number of things. If we just make something not illegal, we can reduce a lot of the jail population. In fact, why not just do away with incarceration altogether?

If the goal is reducing jail and prison population, there are other crimes that make sense to eliminate, or at least eliminate incarceration for, such as white collar crimes. It doubtful our society is better off because Madoff or Lay went to prison. It’s doubtful our society here in Detroit is better off because Kwame Kilpatrick is in prison. … Unless you consider the deterrence factor, and even that is disputed. Personally, I think incarceration is important.

But the goal of making something legal or illegal is not to control prison population but whether or not a particular act or issue is detrimental to the wellbeing of society as a whole.

Reduced crime at the border.

Doubtful, but a very small, almost negligible issue.

Reduced pressure on police, more assets for real crime.

Marijuana use is a real crime, and will be so until the laws are changed.

Increased sales tax revenue for states when it is taken off the black (non-taxed) market.

Perhaps, but remember, there are always ways to avoid paying sales tax.

Regarding the question of Timothy, why would Paul have to tell him to drink?

[Mark_Smith]

You’ll note that the people who endorsed recreational alcohol have no problem with toking a joint! At least they are consistent.

Not quite true, Mark—let’s make sure we’re not taking cheap shots, brother, as that was at least borderline. Remember that Ephesians 4:29 and other passages make clear that reckless insults are every bit as much a sin as is drunkenness.

Moreover, the question here is not whether we have a problem with pot (or alcohol I guess), but rather whether it should be illegal to do so. And given that it’s pretty safe in comparison to the American diet and lifestyle, it’s my view that the case for keeping it illegal is pretty weak, especially when we consider its benefits for cancer victims (like my late mother, who did take Marinol) and others.

In the church, yes, it’s different; there are any number of immoral behaviors that the church ought to police, but are not illegal. Gluttony (there’s that American diet and lifestyle), laziness, intoxication, obscenity, immodesty, careless and evil speech, and the like are all things that are not regulated by law, but ought to be addressed by the church. For that matter, I’d address a huge problem of treating cultural norms as if they were Biblical as a very real thing that needs to be rebuked by the church.

But again, these are matters predominantly of sanctification, not human government, and we confuses these at our peril.