An Open Letter from Dr. Matt Olson of Northland International University

Dear Friends in Ministry,

Thank you for your demonstration of true friendship over these past few months. So many of you have called, emailed, and written me. Yes, God has been doing great things. Yet, when He does, the pot gets stirred. Conflict often follows.

What God has been doing among us…

I thought it would be helpful for me to share a few thoughts concerning recent events at Northland as well as our process of thought. My prayer each day is that God would give us grace to work through our present opportunities and challenges in ways that fulfill His purposes for us and that please Him most. Never has there been a more exciting day to prepare this next generation for Great Commission living or to advance kingdom causes!

January 2008: I began praying for God to do “greater things” here at Northland. It seemed to me that the church as a whole had grown cold with the works of men and was crying out for the works of God to be manifest. I prayed to that end:

  1. For God to give us vision and clarity for what He wanted at Northland.
  2. For wisdom in navigating from where we were to where we needed to be.
  3. For boldness and grace—as we knew the process would be difficult.
  4. For abundant provision.
  5. For His name alone to be magnified.

In many ways God has been answering those prayers and has blessed Northland beyond our expectations. We felt, however, that this was only the beginning.

August 15, 2010: I began a forty day journey of fasting and prayer for the works of God to be manifested and for the fulfillment of the Great Commission. I took this step of faith with some uncertainty—not really knowing how I would do or what God would do. I was certain that I was not content to coast through this final stretch of life and ministry without seeing God do something much more. I have been longing for “greater things.” Dr. Ollila, the administration, faculty, and staff joined me in this. I wish I could share all that has taken place. It has been an incredible time!

What I did not expect was the testing that would follow. Yet, now I realize this to be a familiar pattern in scripture and in history. So, we take it from the Lord and respond with strength and grace that He gives. Sometimes our motives and actions can be misunderstood and miscommunicated. I know that happens. I have always felt that the best response would be to communicate in a positive way. The following are a few points of clarification on what is happening at Northland:

1. The Way of Discipleship

We have superseded our demerit system with what we feel is a biblical model of discipleship. In reality, it is a re-commitment to a means of discipleship that has already been present at Northland. We just took away an artificial demerit system that was awkwardly laid on top of our student system of governance. Our standards and expectations remain the same. But, the way we confront and encourage is relational and the consequences practical. Quite honestly, it is a lot more work with this new way. But, it’s more biblical. And it already appears to be yielding better results. We see “The Way of Discipleship” in the spirit of Matthew 5 where Jesus “raised the bar” from the Old Testament law. We believe grace expects more—and deepens more. While we see our system as a “work in progress,” we have been very pleased with the responses of our students, faculty, and staff.

2. Our Music Philosophy

Philosophically, it is unchanged. Let me say it again…unchanged. What we have always been trying to do, and will continue to do into the future, is to make sure Northland’s practice of music (as with every aspect of the Christian life) is built principally on clear teachings from the Bible rather than on reactionary, extra-biblical reasoning that has proven to be troublingly insufficient when exported to cultures beyond American borders. We believe the Bible is sufficient to bring us to right and God-honoring positions regardless of time and culture. Even though we haven’t changed our music at a philosophical level, we are changing our music on a missional level. Where you will see changes is in our intent to expand our training to prepare students for worship and music globally. This only makes sense because, as you may have noticed, Northland International University has become more and more an international, global ministry with a passion to take the gospel where it is not proclaimed. Over 41% of the world’s population is still without a Gospel witness. This has become our students’ burden. Our Director of Fine Arts, Kevin Suiter, has recently informed us he does not believe he can take us forward in this way and thus has announced his plans to move on. We wish Kevin and Grace the best and thank them for the investments they have made here.

3. Our Guest Speakers

We invited two speakers that have generated some questions.

a. Rick Holland. Dr. Holland is the Executive Pastor at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, where John MacArthur is senior pastor. Since we get many questions concerning John MacArthur and where he is in regard to fundamentalism, we decided that the best way to address this was to meet him face to face. In April of this year, Les Ollila, Doug McLachlan, Sam Horn, and I went to California and sat down with Dr. MacArthur, Rick Holland, and Phil Johnson (Executive Director of Grace to You). We had an excellent visit and found that while we did not agree on everything, we did agree on the most substantive issues of life and ministry. While we realize we function in different circles and with different constituencies, we appreciated what they were doing. I invited Rick to visit our campus to see what we were doing at Northland, meet with our Bible faculty, and speak in chapel. This was an opportunity to get to know one another and discuss significant issues of our day.

b. Bruce Ware. Dr. Ware is a professor at Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville. He is a well-recognized teacher and author. We have invited him to teach half of an advanced-degree seminar on a specialty subject our leading pastors need to be fully versed in. Why? Because Dr. Ware has written so skillfully and authoritatively on this particular topic. This seminar is for experienced, mature pastors who are presently in ministry. We see this as appropriate in the academic context and the type of thing we have done in the past for the very same reasons. In fact, most seminaries bring adjunct professors in to address key issues that they believe helpful. Never has this been intended as a move to align with any other group.

We did not see that having these speakers would be a significant problem. Biblically, we worked through a process of decision making and felt these choices and the context in which they were made were consistent with what we have always believed. Knowing now that these decisions might be confusing, misunderstood, or miscommunicated, we would likely have planned differently. We have no desire to distract from our focus here or on the field of ministry.

We affirm that Northland stands in the historic tradition of Fundamentalism and is committed to remain as an independent, Baptist, separatist institution. We will do our best to serve the local church, which we believe is the primary institution ordained of God to carry out the Great Commission. We respect the autonomy of the local church, the priesthood of the believer, and individual soul liberty. We know that other Fundamentalists will develop different applications based on biblical authority and the principles that flow from it. We will do our best to defer to our brothers in Christ but refuse to be swayed by party politics, threats, and pressures. While deference brings unity, the fear of man paralyzes our ability to serve Christ. In the spirit of Galatians 1, we will serve Christ.

Sometimes I have to smile when I think about the politics in college ministry. Early on I found that I had to just keep it simple: do the right thing, keep a right spirit, communicate the best I can, and leave the results to God. That is all I can do. That’s what I will do. I am not disappointed with differing views and opinions or even challenges that come from healthy critics. These help me grow. What I do think needs to be confronted in our movement is the lack of biblical process in responding to one another when we have questions or disagreements.

We must keep our focus. A friend of mine shared this with me, and I found it to be a great encouragement:

Stick with your work. Do not flinch because the lion roars; do not stop to stone the devil’s dogs; do not fool away your time chasing the devil’s rabbits. Do your work. Let liars lie, let sectarians quarrel, let critics malign, let enemies accuse, let the devil do his worst; but see to it nothing hinders you from fulfilling with joy the work God has given you. He has not commanded you to be admired or esteemed. He has never bidden you to defend your character. He has not set you at work to contradict falsehood about yourself which Satan’s or God’s servants may start to peddle, or to track down every rumor that threatens your reputation. If you do these things, you will do nothing else; you will be at work for yourself and not for the Lord. Keep at your work. Let your aim be as steady as a star. You may be assaulted, wronged, insulted, slandered, wounded and rejected, misunderstood, or assigned impure motives; you may be abused by foes, forsaken by friends, and despised and rejected of men. But see to it with steadfast determination, with unfaltering zeal, that you pursue the great purpose of your life and object of your being until at last you can say, “I have finished the work which Thou gavest me to do.”

If you have further questions or comments, please feel free to write or call me. I welcome that. We have never been more excited about our future than we are now. Doc O and I believe that God is moving in a very special way and that the evidence is seen in both the abundant blessing of God and in the attacks of the Devil. We have the greatest and most exciting opportunity in the world—preparing this next generation of servant leaders for Great Commission living. Pray with us as we move boldly forward for the cause of Christ.

Your friend and fellow servant,

MO

Discussion

John Stima, you said you are confused about the blood issue and about Lordship salvation? Perhaps you should not be so quick to do what you have been told by Dr. Minnick until you do understand.

I know it is hard for those whose categories exist in the mindset of 1960 fundamentalism, but you are so hopelessly confused you simply will not be able to understand.

Kevin Bauder has tried to help some of you understand, but you just will not. A hard heart to match the hard categories.

1 Kings 8:60 - so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.

[Becky Petersen]
[James K] Ted, he was told by Dr. Minnick what to believe. Isn’t that enough? Who are you to question Dr. Minnick?
Is this helpful to the discussion?
Actually yes. It is yet another great example of the chicago way being alive and well in fundamentalism. Like a good soldier, we follow orders.

1 Kings 8:60 - so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other.

[James K] John Stima, you said you are confused about the blood issue and about Lordship salvation? Perhaps you should not be so quick to do what you have been told by Dr. Minnick until you do understand.

I know it is hard for those whose categories exist in the mindset of 1960 fundamentalism, but you are so hopelessly confused you simply will not be able to understand.

Kevin Bauder has tried to help some of you understand, but you just will not. A hard heart to match the hard categories.
James, I agree with you that there is no need to “separate from” John MacArthur. But it’s not for you to judge someone’s heart simply because he disagrees with you or even with Dr. Bauder.

-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

Thanks for that, Greg.

James… I think there is some risk of employing “the chicago way” when attacking “the chicago way.”

I’d kind of like to return to Jim’s question to jstima from a while back…
[Jim Peet] Re: “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers”

How is J Mac yoked with unbelievers?
After that question I saw… “blood” “lordship salvation” “Chuck Smith”…. still no unbelievers. Just wanted to point out that that particular question is still kind of hanging.

I personally have no quarrel w/NIU for having Holland in to speak, though I may have sounded that way. Entirely their prerogative. My concern has to do with (a) it is a departure from their previous custom and (b) I can’t figure out why it was worth doing. (Shortage of chapel speakers? Couldn’t “get to know him” without hearing him preach in person in front of the student body? Or what?)

I think these questions are important. Where’s the virtue in change for change’s sake? If your institution has a history of drawing “the line” in a particular place, of course it doesn’t have to have the line there forever, but if it’s going to move its line, it’s important to know why.

If the thought is, “We think this will get us more students”… well, I can think of worse reasons. But haven’t heard that reason given yet. So my predominant emotion about the whole remains mostly “curious.”

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

I am concerned. Northland, Clearwater, Lansdale - all trying to lead “fundamentalism” down a new path. I am concerned that those who would question or challenge the thinking and actions of these institutions are attacked in every way by “scholars” demanding chapter and verse, loyalists who know the “heart” of a man or cynics who simply want to shame and humiliate.

I do not know Dr. Olson and have never been to Northland, but his letter is clear. There is no need to watch and see what might happen. He has declared a new path and is trying to suggest that fasting, prayer and the Holy Spirit are guiding him down this path. A suggestion meant to express a deeply spiritual thing has occurred leading to the changes at Northland. The Spirit will not lead in any way contrary to the Word, but I sense many in fundamentalism looking to and hoping for the Holy Spirit to do things (‘greater things’) or show them things when knowing and living the Book with the help of the Holy Spirit is sufficient.

The demerit system has never made anyone spiritual, but young people are there training for the ministry and training demands discipline (Proverbs 22:6). Rules are not negative or anti-Bible in any way (John 14:15). I believe the change to be made sincerely, but long term will be harmful in the training of young people for His service.

The change in music to a “missional” focus, preparing for “worship and music globally” seems to be stepping onto the slippery slope. Without a doubt fundamentalism is not sure what to do with music. I am noting a strong push to the words of music and cultural considerations in music, rather then any focus on the music itself (which has a message without a single lyric being written). I have been in ministry in several cultures around the world and in each I have heard both cultural music that honored the Lord and cultural music that was man centered/flesh driven. The primary issue in music is the music. The fact that Kevin Suiter is leaving is troubling. We should hear from him on this matter.

I have no interest in attacking the men that Northland is bringing to the institution. It is the effort to “affirm… Northland stands ….historic tradition ……committed to remain….separatist institution.” The statement and the actions do not match up. The men coming are who they are doing what they believe God wants them to do - great, God bless them. However, to bring them to “us” and defend the action as historic, committed and separatist is just not true. This is compromise from historic, committed, separatist fundamentalism.

There is no attack on these men, Northland or Dr. Olson in my comments, but honesty is demanded. Northland, Clearwater, Lansdale and perhaps Central and Detroit are heading in a different direction, but it is not historic, committed, separatist fundamentalism.

Cgrif

I am concerned that those who would question or challenge the thinking and actions of these institutions are attacked in every way by “scholars” demanding chapter and verse
The reason people demand chapter and verse is because much of cultural fundamentalism from the past has gotten a free pass to take verses such as II Cor. 6:14-17 out of context as what was done earlier in this thread.
The demerit system has never made anyone spiritual, but young people are there training for the ministry and training demands discipline (Proverbs 22:6). Rules are not negative or anti-Bible in any way (John 14:15). I believe the change to be made sincerely, but long term will be harmful in the training of young people for His service.
I went to a Baptist school in the 1980’s that used something similar to a demerit system that stressed strict discipline and rules. The atmosphere among most my fellow students was quite spiritually toxic. What was intended to help actually hurt. In the 1990’s at this same institution there was a change towards teaching Biblical discernment and discipleship rather than the strict rules it once had. From 2004-2007, I had the opportunity to adjunct teach at this same institution. I braced for the worst. I was completely shocked how things had changed for the better. Teaching students Biblical discernment and to be a disciple of Jesus was working! My students were passionate for living for Jesus, evangelizing and discipling, and serving others. Give Dr. Olson the benefit of the doubt. Their emphasis on discipleship and missional will help the students go deeper with their walk with Christ as they pursue their education.


The change in music to a “missional” focus, preparing for “worship and music globally” seems to be stepping onto the slippery slope.
One of my favorite responses to the “slippery-slope” argument that seems to make its way into these arguments….. :bigsmile:

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2009/02/slippery-slope-arguments/

[CGrif] I am concerned. Northland, Clearwater, Lansdale - all trying to lead “fundamentalism” down a new path.
WOW! Maybe someone should come up with a sermon on “Forsake Not the Old Paths” or even better, “Remove Not the Ancient Landmarks”. I don’t think anyone has ever preached on those topics before.

Removing tongue from cheek and exiting sarcasm mode.

And yes, I realize that this did not “contribute to the discussion.”

That will be 20 demerits for me.

Dan Burrell Cornelius, NC Visit my Blog "Whirled Views" @ www.danburrell.com

I’ll start at the top. Makes the most sense.
[CGrif] I am concerned. Northland, Clearwater, Lansdale - all trying to lead “fundamentalism” down a new path. I am concerned that those who would question or challenge the thinking and actions of these institutions are attacked in every way by “scholars” demanding chapter and verse, loyalists who know the “heart” of a man or cynics who simply want to shame and humiliate.
In much the same way that those making the changes are attacked by loyalists who demand unquestioning and even unthinking adherence to the way things have always been?
[CGrif] I do not know Dr. Olson and have never been to Northland, but his letter is clear. There is no need to watch and see what might happen. He has declared a new path and is trying to suggest that fasting, prayer and the Holy Spirit are guiding him down this path. A suggestion meant to express a deeply spiritual thing has occurred leading to the changes at Northland. The Spirit will not lead in any way contrary to the Word, but I sense many in fundamentalism looking to and hoping for the Holy Spirit to do things (‘greater things’) or show them things when knowing and living the Book with the help of the Holy Spirit is sufficient.
You just got done complaining about folks who “know the ‘heart’ ” of a man (or institution) and then you boldly proclaim that “[t] here is no need to watch and see what might happen”? Do you know the ‘heart’ of Dr. Olson? I doubt it, since you admit you do not know him and you have never been to his school.
[CGrif] The demerit system has never made anyone spiritual, but young people are there training for the ministry and training demands discipline (Proverbs 22:6). Rules are not negative or anti-Bible in any way (John 14:15). I believe the change to be made sincerely, but long term will be harmful in the training of young people for His service.
Proverbs 22:6 applies to children. With a few exceptions, college students do not fit the definition of “children,” at least not as far as that passage is concerned. These students do not show up at college with no behavioral patterns established. They are there because they have reached a certain level of independence and are ready to hone their skills. And let’s be fair, here - NIU is dropping the demerit system, but they will still have a handbook. They’re not going anarchic.
[CGrif] The change in music to a “missional” focus, preparing for “worship and music globally” seems to be stepping onto the slippery slope. Without a doubt fundamentalism is not sure what to do with music. I am noting a strong push to the words of music and cultural considerations in music, rather then any focus on the music itself (which has a message without a single lyric being written). I have been in ministry in several cultures around the world and in each I have heard both cultural music that honored the Lord and cultural music that was man centered/flesh driven. The primary issue in music is the music. The fact that Kevin Suiter is leaving is troubling. We should hear from him on this matter.
I’m glad you self-identified your own logical fallacy. This entire paragraph is confusing. Any focus on the cultural considerations of music must involve a focus on the “music” (melodies and harmonies). Words do not carry cultural connotations. And since there is no real “ethnic American” music like you use “cultural,” I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at. Perhaps Kevin Suiter thinks that he is not qualified to deal with the world cultural ramifications of music education. Perhaps is is not comfortable with the philosophical changes. Whatever the case, do you know him? Can you say why he is leaving? No, because you state that we, collectively, should hear from him. If he has any sense of professionalism, though, he won’t dish like it seems you’re wishing. It’s the height of unprofessionalism to be given a gracious sendoff then turn around and badmouth the same people that wished you well on your way out. I doubt he will, on the record, contradict what Dr. Olson has said. Finally, if we are called to minister to the world, what is so woeful about preparing for “worship and music globally”? Are we simply supposed to transplant our wonderful American ideals and culture on unsuspecting different cultures because God has decreed American forms of music to be superior to everyone else’s?
[CGrif] I have no interest in attacking the men that Northland is bringing to the institution. It is the effort to “affirm… Northland stands ….historic tradition ……committed to remain….separatist institution.” The statement and the actions do not match up. The men coming are who they are doing what they believe God wants them to do - great, God bless them. However, to bring them to “us” and defend the action as historic, committed and separatist is just not true. This is compromise from historic, committed, separatist fundamentalism.

There is no attack on these men, Northland or Dr. Olson in my comments, but honesty is demanded. Northland, Clearwater, Lansdale and perhaps Central and Detroit are heading in a different direction, but it is not historic, committed, separatist fundamentalism.
The funny thing is, most of Christendom outside of “historic, committed, separatist fundamentalism” would disagree with you. A great many fundamentalists think those schools are still fundamentalist. A vast majority of evangelicals would affirm the same, as would a host of non-religious outside observers, going by the popular definition of “fundamentalist.”

You have been honest; now let me be honest. The fact is that Northland is trying to “separate” from the type of Fundamentalism you represent, the type that hopes nothing ever changes and is quick to pounce on anyone who dares to suggest that maybe separated, committed Christianity functions differently in the culture of 2010 than it did in the culture of 1910. Clinging to historic truth is good because truth doesn’t change. Clinging to historic culture is the quickest way to make yourself and your movement irrelevant.

I just had an email discussion on this subject with a great man of God and I wanted to lay out some things for your consideration while they are still fresh on my mind.

First of all, no one publicly answered my question on which colleges they will recommend if they stop recommending Northland. If you are going to stop recommending Northland, what schools do you recommend? I know some men who will not recommend Northland but will recommend PCC. Now PCC, had a Letis on a video on KJV only. Does’nt that kind of mute out the concern over a school having speakers from outside the group? Some of the men would recommend West Coast over Northland, and I was just looking at an ad in their magazine called “The Baptist Voice” where they list Jack Hyles as a giant of the faith. Now, I honestly would think young people would be in better hands under Holland, Ware, Dever, and others than under Letis and Hyles. Am I wrong in thinking this way?

Secondly, when we practice separation, we do so to obey God and preserve the purity of the church. If we are going to preserve purity, then we must practice purity in the process of preserving it. For example, when it comes to separation from a brother that makes a wrong decision, sepration is the last thing we do not the first thing. When Peter did wrong in Galatians 2:11-14, Paul did not cut him off, he opposed him. Yet, I am hearing some of my friends say that they are done with Matt Olson and Northland. Really, how is that promoting purity? If he did something wrong, you try to help him, not cut him off. Trigger happy separation from a brother at this stage is just not right. Here is another frustration for me -We often misrepresent people we believe are wrong. An example of this would be calling a conservative evangelical a new evangelical. I studied new evangelicalism and it was birthed out of a desire to repudiate fundamentalism. While the conservative evangelicals are not where the fundamentalists are on things, they do not repudiate fundamentalism, do they? Also, at the heart of new evangelicalism is a philosophy of “in them to win them” as the preachers boys were taught by Wayne Van Ghelderen Sr. at BJU when we were there. Conservative evangelicals reject that. They even preach sermons where they condemn that mindset and lament its devastating effect on evangelicalism.

So, are we pure in the practice of preserving purity by cutting Northland off? Are we pure in the practice of preserving purity by incorrectlly labeling others?

[Dan Burrell]
[CGrif] I am concerned. Northland, Clearwater, Lansdale - all trying to lead “fundamentalism” down a new path.
WOW! Maybe someone should come up with a sermon on “Forsake Not the Old Paths” or even better, “Remove Not the Ancient Landmarks”. I don’t think anyone has ever preached on those topics before.

Removing tongue from cheek and exiting sarcasm mode.

And yes, I realize that this did not “contribute to the discussion.”

That will be 20 demerits for me.
Thanks Dan. And an extra 20 demerits for making me spit my post-prayer meeting beverage all over my keyboard.

A couple of random thoughts:

Are not Dever, MacArthur and Olson are brothers in Christ?

I grow weary of people using the term “new evangelical” as an epithet when it’s evident they don’t know what the term means.

Does “separation from a brother” count if the brother doesn’t know that you’re separating from him?

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

My brother CGRif,

I’m grateful for your candor and care with which you make your case. This sounds like you are either a middle-aged guy with a mature heart or else you are seasoned and have earned the right to comment because of your faithful service. We who are younger must take your observations with respect. I have and do. However, our first loyalty has to be to what we understand to be right - so I will try to disagree with you and be respectful at the same time.Let me respond to your response:

1. There is much variety with these different ministries. While it may look like these guys are moving in concert - that is not reality. I’m sure that as I will note later these institutions do influence, but each school has it’s own constituency and internal “check’s and ballances” that frankly keep a firm grip on the direction these ministries go. However, it is true that these ministries while independent are coming to similar conclusions so I can understand your wanting to lump them all together in the same canoe. To be clear here - these ministries are not trying to lead fundamentalism down anything “new.” They are motivated to lead towards that which is “true.” If you would take the time to speak with each of the leaders, they would articulate for you how changes are actually moving ministries towards a more Biblical pattern of ministry.

You sound like you are seasoned my brother. No matter what your age I want to be careful, sensitive and respectful. I’m not sure if you understand what I’m about to say, but the men that you are calling into question have paid the price to examine carefully the meaning, intent, content and an approach to application of Scripture that is God-honoring and accurate. These ministries are lead by men who have invested decades of their life into the intended meaning of the text and have paid the price to apply those teachings in a ministry setting. They do this in a context where you will have 6, 7, 8 or more Godly men who hold each other accountable and who work towards a consensus on what is responsible Biblical approach to separation, unity, ministry and a healthy version of fundamentalism. I don’t mean to be unkind, but how many men have you interacted with at that level? Have those men paid the same kind of price to understanding the teachings of the Scripture that you will find at Northland, Central, Calvary, DBTS, etc…..? The very fact that so many men within the circles that have previously been associated with “fundamentalism” per se are thinking through these issues should challenge men like you to be thoughtful here and probably a bit gaurded. I say this with all respect but with all seriousness. By the way for the last 15 plus years Godly men from these different schools (and others) have been meeting and thinking through these (and other) issues carefully, “line upon line.” Can you imagine presenting your view of fundmanentalism, separation, unity and such in the face of 30 other Godly men who have invested not just years but decades to study Greek, Hebrew, Church Historhy and such. I’m not saying that your opinion does not matter here brother - but I don’t think your view has had to pass through the fire that these institutions have had to work through internally within it’s own faculty and constituency. If there is movement or change, you need to know that “that” has taken place in a careful matter. None of the men in these places are irrisponsible. They are Godly men, principled and are very away of the “slippery slope” idea you make reference too. Frankly they are attempting to do two things - they are attempting to move forward with a care and loyaty to the Scriptures, fostering needed change while at the same time working hard to encourage the 20 and 30 years old’s to not go over the Niagra Falls by way of excess.

2. You make mention of Historic Fundamentalism. Let’s go there - over the first decades of fundamentalism, the movement focused not on separastion per se, but rather “miltancy.” So actually fundamentalism has made “a change in course” before. Fundamentalism changes when it believes honesty with the text demands change. If the ultimate authrority for fundamentalism is the opinions of former generations than your concerns should be unquestioned. Most of us believe that the source of authority is God’s Word - not the opinions of older men, or younger men. Back to historic fundamentalism - the movement included men and ministries that were both “stay-in-and-fight” as well as “leave-and-separate.” There was a change in the 50’s primarily because the majority of evangelicalism embraced newevangelicalism which caused a rift between the majority of evangelicalism and fundamentalism. If you’ve been reading Bauder’s work you will understand the change that has been happening. Most conservative evangelicals hate eccuminicalism as much as we do. The day is different my brother. We have too many quote in quote “fundamentalists” that are heretics on the KJV, the nature of Christ and issue of Salvation (faith and repentence). We have many evangelicals that are acutally more healthy and Biblically responsible than many “fundamentalists.” The change my brother is a return to the authority of Scripture as the source of direction -not the opionions of old men……or young men. This in fact is a good thing. It is a God thing.

3. Music - Will let others touch this. You’ve said alot. I actually am also concerned that we be careful with all that is “missional.” I don’t have room here to even touch this one.

4. Demerits - The verses you quote hardly result in a demerit system. I’m fairly sure Paul wasn’t handing out “pink” slips while making his missionary journey’s. One can easily make a Biblical case for what Northland is doing with discipline. It will look more like the discipline found in the early NT church.

5. Invite Kevin Suiter to come on over to SI. Let him share his thoughts. If he can present arguements that demonstate how these institutions are headed for trouble….great. He should be warned…..his thoughts will have to stand on their own…..not because of his name. That is the same for all of us.

6. It’s very telling that you start off your article undermining those of us who ask you for chapter and verse. I thought that was our authority?

A few counter thoughts for you my brother. Please know that those of us who love the heritage of the fundamentalist movement but come to the conclusions that there are needed an occasional change in direction, do not do so devoid of Biblical thought and do not do so without a respect for men such as yourself that might be more conservative.

I pray you will consider this appeal.

Straight Ahead!

jt

Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Bible Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;

Well, Mike B. candidly said over on Don’s blog, he would recommend IBC rather than Northland. And of course, he mentioned his new college in Utah.

The independent Baptist way is to start a new college when struggling with the direction of other colleges. None are really flourishing in the West except one. And it continually moves forward in a national way.

And as I appreciate a man like Pastor Rick Holland connected to John MacArthur, I appreciate a man like Pastor Kurt Skelly who is connected with Paul Chappell. I could listen to both as chapel speakers.

Look at the humble Christlikeness of these men. This is not phoney baloney being displayed. These are real mccoy examples in America for students to hear. Sinners saved by grace and who love the true Jesus of the Bible.

And what I am blabbing about is not new to any of you on SI. We could backtrack to my beginning articles on SI in what I have learned and appreciated. Brothers and sisters from Pensacola, BJU, Northland, IBC, Lancaster, Masters, Southern, etc. and etc. are my brothers … my sisters. With all their nuances and quirks, they are my family.

And believe it or not, there is a stark difference between these brothers and sisters and the world, the false teacher, and the blatant, unrepentant professing believer. It is so clear in my mind. So very clear.

[mounty] Are we simply supposed to transplant our wonderful American ideals and culture on unsuspecting different cultures because God has decreed American forms of music to be superior to everyone else’s?
Note: We have transplanted our American music globally already. If you have doubt about it, visit places in Europe where people don’t speak English. Go in the malls and listen to what’s over the loudspeakers and on the radio.

Dan,

I don’t think sarcasm has a real place here in the discussion, because both sides have very strong feelings about the issues. Both feel like each other is pulling the “don’t defy me or disagree with me because I’m the leader here and I believe I’m right” card whether from ‘tradition/history’ or ‘prayer and fasting’.

Demerits:

I can’t see how demerits either are or are NOT spiritual. They are simply a way of enforcing rules. I’d imagine that it is actually easier to enforce rules with demerits, so, eliminating demerits probably just added a lot of work to their day. But you know this whole thing kind of blew my image of NIU. I already thought their students were superior spiritually to any other college. (In many ways, I’m not joking here….by MO stating what he did, it made me see in black and white for sure that they are dealing with normal, college-aged kids probably not spiritually superior or more dedicated to the Lord than most other fundamental schools in the states such as Maranatha, BJU, CCC, WestCoast, or even PCC, Heartland, or IBC or HAC. ;)) I’d imagine that most smaller schools actually don’t start out by using demerits. I thought that generally colleges add these kinds of things as needed to deal with problems when you have a larger student body. I mean, you don’t use demerits at home do you? Don’t you work on Christian discipline among your children in your own homes without them? (I’ve never heard of a family that uses them—maybe some do.)

To the person who said one college in the west is growing…—Todd, I thinkl—which college in the west is actually growing? Maybe it all depends on our definition of the west. For me, that needs to be at least the last 1/3 of the contiguous USA…so from about MT/CO over to the Pacific Ocean. Would that be West Coast?

[Pastor Joe Roof] First of all, no one publicly answered my question on which colleges they will recommend if they stop recommending Northland. If you are going to stop recommending Northland, what schools do you recommend? I know some men who will not recommend Northland but will recommend PCC. Now PCC, had a Letis on a video on KJV only. Does’nt that kind of mute out the concern over a school having speakers from outside the group? Some of the men would recommend West Coast over Northland, and I was just looking at an ad in their magazine called “The Baptist Voice” where they list Jack Hyles as a giant of the faith. Now, I honestly would think young people would be in better hands under Holland, Ware, Dever, and others than under Letis and Hyles. Am I wrong in thinking this way?
Well, Joe, I guess that settles it then, doesn’t it? I mean, no one answered YOUR question, so now you get to answer it for them? Do you imagine that those who support PCC, West Coast, etc actually would list Northland as their second choice?

If you must build straw men, please do it in a less obvious way!
[Pastor Joe Roof] Secondly, when we practice separation, we do so to obey God and preserve the purity of the church. If we are going to preserve purity, then we must practice purity in the process of preserving it. For example, when it comes to separation from a brother that makes a wrong decision, sepration is the last thing we do not the first thing. When Peter did wrong in Galatians 2:11-14, Paul did not cut him off, he opposed him. Yet, I am hearing some of my friends say that they are done with Matt Olson and Northland.
I am not sure who introduced the idea of “the purity of the church” into this thread… Ok, just did a search… the first person to use the word ‘purity’ was Dan Burrell in post #20. Bob Hayton quoted him in post #23. Next was you in post #132. NOBODY ELSE USED THE TERM.

So what we have are three supporters of the Northland changes bringing this up as if it is the argument of those who are concerned about the changes. That is another example of building straw men. “Purity of the church” isn’t what is being argued. It isn’t what this dispute is about. I would suggest you deal with what opponents of the Northland changes are actually saying, rather than putting words into their mouths.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3