On Laying Up Treasures
Among the recent criticisms of Bob Jones University, one of the strangest is that the university’s teachers are poorly paid. One critic even prepared a chart showing faculty salaries from independent four-year colleges and universities throughout South Carolina, locating Bob Jones University at the bottom of the salary scale. The (anonymous) critic took this lack of munificence as such an obvious scandal as not even to require comment.
Plenty could be said about the survey itself. Comparisons of this sort are rarely as helpful (or, in this case, as damaging) as they are meant to be. The variables are simply too significant for direct evaluations to be made.
A larger issue is at stake, however. The fact is that the published salaries at Bob Jones University are not greatly out of line with faculty salaries at most Fundamentalist institutions of higher learning (especially if regional cost of living is taken into account). Professors in Fundamentalist institutions are paid far less than their peers in comparable secular colleges and universities.
This situation extends further than just Fundamentalism. Many broadly evangelical schools do not pay their professors much more. I have degrees from two large, evangelical seminaries. In one of those institutions, a tenured professor told one of my classes that, in order to support his family, he had to make $10,000 to $15,000 of outside income every year. A recent reporting instrument shows that institution paying an average salary of only $25,000 per year, less than the reported average for the Bob Jones faculty.
While average salaries are low for Christian professors, they can be even lower for pastors. Many pastors receive no more compensation than professors at Bob Jones. In fact, many receive substantially less. Smaller churches frequently offer salary packages that virtually require pastors (or their spouses) to work outside jobs.
The people who take these positions—these professorships and pastorates—are obviously not taking them for the money. Some other concern is in play. That concern can be expressed in various ways: ministry, serving the Lord, the care of souls. Jesus called it “laying up treasures in heaven.”
When I was thirteen years old, my father left his management position with a major airline to go to Bible college. Over the next several years I watched my parents live by faith, dividing time between schooling, work, family, and, eventually, ministry. In time, I saw my father take pastoral positions without ever asking what his compensation would be. He was convinced that, if he trusted the Lord, then God would supply our needs. God did.
Years later, my own college complete, I attended seminary at an institution where salaries were not only low, they were regularly in arrears. My professors went and found second jobs so that they could continue their ministries in the classroom. These were talented, bright individuals with good educations. They could have gone elsewhere and made plenty of money. But they were committed to the ministry that the Lord had given them. As they saw it, they were serving the Lord. They were caring for souls. They were laying up treasure in heaven.
Episodes like these have affected me deeply. It does something to you when you know that your professor spent the previous night working as a janitor so that he could have the opportunity to be in class teaching you in the morning. Consequently, I am aware that my education is not simply a product that I have purchased, much less an entitlement. It has been given to me as a gift by men and women who have made willing sacrifices, partly because of their love for the Lord, and partly because of their hopes for me. What I have received is something like a trust, committed to me in the hope that I would be able to communicate it to others in turn. To misuse this gift for personal advancement or worldly gain would be a betrayal of the trust.
Not that I am an ascetic. Far from it. I am grateful, not only for the daily provision of needs, but also for a fair number of creature comforts. These I take as additional gifts with which God has seen fit to entrust me. These material things are good, and I rejoice in them. They are not, however, the reason that I choose to minister.
Now, I am embarrassed to have spent these past paragraphs talking about myself. The point is not that I am a wonderful person (much as I wish that were true!). The point is that my own life has been irrevocably altered and bettered by people who did exactly what the faculty at Bob Jones University is doing. By virtue of their sacrifice, I have been made immeasurably richer in the ways that matter most.
What I am trying to do is to describe the attitude that leads highly talented and educated people to settle for salaries that the carnally-minded see as laughable. As a teenager, I saw this attitude in my parents. As a student, I saw it in my professors. As president of Central Seminary, I saw it in colleagues (both staff and faculty) who petitioned me to lower their compensation so that the seminary could prosper.
Because I have been an administrator, I also understand the responsibility that an institution bears toward such self-sacrificing people. Precisely because they can be taken advantage of so easily, they are a sacred trust. God will hold the institution and its leaders responsible for their treatment. My sympathies are with every administrator who struggles with decisions about raising salaries versus meeting other institutional concerns. Professors are not well served if they receive higher compensation (which they surely deserve) for a year, only to see their institution close its doors.
I celebrate the professors at Bob Jones University whose lives do not consist in the abundance of their possessions. I rejoice over teachers like them in Christian institutions all over the country, teachers for whom ministry is more important than wealth. I honor and esteem pastors who sacrifice personal financial prosperity in order to shepherd souls. These people truly are laying up treasure in heaven.
Lord of the Worlds Above
Isaac Watts (1674-1748)
Lord of the worlds above,
How pleasant and how fair
The dwellings of thy love,
Thine earthly temples, are:
To thine abode my heart aspires,
With warm desires to see my God.
O happy souls that pray
Where God appoints to hear!
O happy men that pay
Their constant service there!
They praise thee still; and happy they
That love the way to Zion’s hill.
They go from strength to strength,
Through this dark vale of tears,
Till each arrives at length,
Till each in heav’n appears:
O glorious seat, where God, our King,
Shall thither bring our willing feet!
God is our Sun and Shield,
Our Light and our Defense;
With gifts his hands are filled;
We draw our blessings thence.
Thrice happy he, O God of hosts,
Whose spirit trusts alone in thee.
Kevin T. Bauder Bio
This essay is by Dr. Kevin T. Bauder, who serves as Research Professor of Systematic Theology at Central Baptist Theological Seminary (Plymouth, MN). Not every professor, student, or alumnus of Central Seminary necessarily agrees with every opinion that it expresses.
Great article.
When it comes to ministries - here is what I look for:
1. Is the ministry willing to make the same kind of sacrifices that they ask of their workers? If not, they are using people to build their ministry instead of using their ministry to build people.
2. Are there major disparities between certain people on the staff? If so, it speaks of favortism to me. Of course there will differences in pay scales based on position and experience. However, I have been to churches where the Pastor lives in luxury and the assistant can barely pay his bills because of gross disparities in pay. I am not sure how this is done in good conscience. I have been to churches where congregations will give a guest speaker something they would never give to their own pastor and incidentally, the guest speaker lives a life luxury while the Pastor is barely hanging on.
3. I also think in Christian ministries, the whole concept of caring for needs comes into practice. If there is a millionare leader making money he could live without and a janitor that can even fix his car, then a ministry needs to seriously visit that issue.
A lot of times, it is really hard to determine values in ministries because many of them do not have open books to donors. In my mind, if a ministry asks for people to donate to them, they have a responsibility to provide financial reports that the donors can understand. These financial reports provide accountability to the ministry and the proper informaton for caring donors.
So, this article just has me thinking of the bigger issues of ministries and finances.
When it comes to ministries - here is what I look for:
1. Is the ministry willing to make the same kind of sacrifices that they ask of their workers? If not, they are using people to build their ministry instead of using their ministry to build people.
2. Are there major disparities between certain people on the staff? If so, it speaks of favortism to me. Of course there will differences in pay scales based on position and experience. However, I have been to churches where the Pastor lives in luxury and the assistant can barely pay his bills because of gross disparities in pay. I am not sure how this is done in good conscience. I have been to churches where congregations will give a guest speaker something they would never give to their own pastor and incidentally, the guest speaker lives a life luxury while the Pastor is barely hanging on.
3. I also think in Christian ministries, the whole concept of caring for needs comes into practice. If there is a millionare leader making money he could live without and a janitor that can even fix his car, then a ministry needs to seriously visit that issue.
A lot of times, it is really hard to determine values in ministries because many of them do not have open books to donors. In my mind, if a ministry asks for people to donate to them, they have a responsibility to provide financial reports that the donors can understand. These financial reports provide accountability to the ministry and the proper informaton for caring donors.
So, this article just has me thinking of the bigger issues of ministries and finances.
Fundamentalists have long been accused of “anti-intellectualism” because they haven’t written or been published enough. But how many pastors or seminary professors who could have been writing books over the last hundred years have been prevented from doing so by the need to support their families?? My own dad in two pastorates in Michigan worked secular jobs for years, which prevented the pursuit of furthering his education.
I agree with Dr. Bauder in this article about placing the Kingdom first. The real internal struggle starts when I also look at commands about providing for my family and passages that seem to place the wife’s priorities at home (please don’t understand that to mean I’m absolute on a woman not working outside the home). When I went on staff at BJU after finishing my GA position, my salary was insufficient to provide for my family while my stayed at home. Just to make sure my budget was reasonable, I did run it past one of the business faculty and he counseled I should look for work elsewhere if we really wanted my wife at home.
I could have done outside work, but that would have hindered my leading my family in the way I believe I should. I’m already tired and busy enough after an 8 to 5 job. The bottom line for me was that the only way I could balance all those commands was to leave BJU. In retrospect, I think this was just the Lord’s pushing me out since I’m not sure I would have left any other way. One confirmation of that fact is that months after I left, a similarly paid employee told me he got a 50% raise which put the final number very close to what my budget was.
I guess the lessons I’ve gleaned from that experience are:
I could have done outside work, but that would have hindered my leading my family in the way I believe I should. I’m already tired and busy enough after an 8 to 5 job. The bottom line for me was that the only way I could balance all those commands was to leave BJU. In retrospect, I think this was just the Lord’s pushing me out since I’m not sure I would have left any other way. One confirmation of that fact is that months after I left, a similarly paid employee told me he got a 50% raise which put the final number very close to what my budget was.
I guess the lessons I’ve gleaned from that experience are:
- The university is trying to improve salaries. It just takes a while.
- God may use finances to move people to where He wants them.
- If you seek the kingdom first (including all the commands of God), you might have to make decisions that look like they’re based only on financial gain.
- Young men faced with these seemingly conflicting directives should seek counsel from older, godly men. Of course, that’s the case with any major decision.
@Npaul-
You’re absolutely right in that pastors and professors that have to work two jobs don’t have time to write and publish, but I also think that part of it is a very serious bias against any kind of study and scholarship. Look at the flack that Bauder gets for writing out things like these “Nick” articles, which are largely aimed at those “inside the camp.”
One of the reasons, I think, why BJU Press books sell well to Fundys is because they don’t actually challenge any Fundy norms. There’s no real self-evaluation or criticism going on. Look at the http://sharperiron.org/forum/thread-sword-of-lord-blasts-new-bju-press-…] ruckus http://sharperiron.org/forum/thread-jaegglis-christian-and-drinking-vs-…] regarding http://sharperiron.org/forum/thread-robert-sumners-biblical-evangelist-…] Dr. Jaeggli’s http://sharperiron.org/filings/7-29-09/11418] book when someone dared to suggest that total abstinence from alcohol was actually biblical.
You’re absolutely right in that pastors and professors that have to work two jobs don’t have time to write and publish, but I also think that part of it is a very serious bias against any kind of study and scholarship. Look at the flack that Bauder gets for writing out things like these “Nick” articles, which are largely aimed at those “inside the camp.”
One of the reasons, I think, why BJU Press books sell well to Fundys is because they don’t actually challenge any Fundy norms. There’s no real self-evaluation or criticism going on. Look at the http://sharperiron.org/forum/thread-sword-of-lord-blasts-new-bju-press-…] ruckus http://sharperiron.org/forum/thread-jaegglis-christian-and-drinking-vs-…] regarding http://sharperiron.org/forum/thread-robert-sumners-biblical-evangelist-…] Dr. Jaeggli’s http://sharperiron.org/filings/7-29-09/11418] book when someone dared to suggest that total abstinence from alcohol was actually biblical.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Re:
There are 3 salaries / wages a Christian need to be concerned about and have knowlege of:
Where I work, no one talks about one’s salaries. I’m sure we have a general knowlege of the range of various positions (because of job postings, etc).
I’ll add one more. For an investor / stock owner, the salaries of top executives are known and may be voted upon at at shareholder meeting (not all companies permit the voting on salaries). An example ( http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=VAL+Profile] Valspar … a Minneapolis company)
One critic even prepared a chart showing faculty salaries from independent four-year colleges and universities throughout South Carolina, locating Bob Jones University at the bottom of the salary scale.I’m not clear on the value of knowing salary ranges of a school.
There are 3 salaries / wages a Christian need to be concerned about and have knowlege of:
- A direct subordinate or someone hired, where one can influence. Examples
- A manager. (Biblical support: Colossians 4:1, “Masters, give your bondservants what is just and fair”)
- One who hires a laborer (the painter, the lawn mower, etc). I Tim 5:18, “The laborer is worthy of his wages”
- One’s own.
- If a Christian is responsible for the salary / wage of a Pastor (1 Timothy 5:17), he needs to have some knowlege of the amount.
Where I work, no one talks about one’s salaries. I’m sure we have a general knowlege of the range of various positions (because of job postings, etc).
I’ll add one more. For an investor / stock owner, the salaries of top executives are known and may be voted upon at at shareholder meeting (not all companies permit the voting on salaries). An example ( http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=VAL+Profile] Valspar … a Minneapolis company)
In partial response to David Lowry:
1 Timothy 5:8, “if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”
AND
Ephesians 4:27, “let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. “
If you seek the kingdom first (including all the commands of God), you might have to make decisions that look like they’re based only on financial gainAgreed: And some of those commands are:
1 Timothy 5:8, “if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”
AND
Ephesians 4:27, “let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. “
One flip side of what Kevin rightly observes is that many prefer employment security and will not leave ministries even when perhaps they should. In other words low pay trumps no pay.
I confess that I often worried about how I was going to support my family when we moved back into Philadelphia to plant churches and we no longer had any churches supporting us. I lost sleep over thinking about how we would pay the bills. I was not full of faith or particularly courageous although I tried to put on a brave face. However God provided ministry friends whose giving to our church plant provides a housing stipend, a full-time job for me and two part-time jobs for my wife. I kid my wife that if she finds a third part-time job I could quit mine. She didn’t think it was funny either.
I don’t mean to sound cynical but I hate to admit how many people I’ve known on church staffs or missionaries overseas who stay in their present ministry because it is secure. Jobs are scarce and moving challenging. Sometimes staying put when you won’t be put out appears to be the smart option.
I confess that I often worried about how I was going to support my family when we moved back into Philadelphia to plant churches and we no longer had any churches supporting us. I lost sleep over thinking about how we would pay the bills. I was not full of faith or particularly courageous although I tried to put on a brave face. However God provided ministry friends whose giving to our church plant provides a housing stipend, a full-time job for me and two part-time jobs for my wife. I kid my wife that if she finds a third part-time job I could quit mine. She didn’t think it was funny either.
I don’t mean to sound cynical but I hate to admit how many people I’ve known on church staffs or missionaries overseas who stay in their present ministry because it is secure. Jobs are scarce and moving challenging. Sometimes staying put when you won’t be put out appears to be the smart option.
The Lord has graciously enabled us in our 37 years of ministry to serve in three churches. In each case, our initial salary package was lower than what we had left, and in each case, the church was concerned to provide adequately for their pastor. In one place, we were small, and the funds were simply not there, but they wanted to help us and appreciate us, so they added an extra week of vacation. Money was tight, but we loved the ministry with our people.
I could have made more money had I stayed in secular work, and secular work is honorable labor, but God had called us to ministrty, and we look back and both marvel and rejoice at the Lord’s gracious provision.
Like Kevin, I am deeply grateful for the godly men who joyfuly serve in teaching, and long for the day when we will be able to give them a higher salary.
I could have made more money had I stayed in secular work, and secular work is honorable labor, but God had called us to ministrty, and we look back and both marvel and rejoice at the Lord’s gracious provision.
Like Kevin, I am deeply grateful for the godly men who joyfuly serve in teaching, and long for the day when we will be able to give them a higher salary.
Dick Dayton
I fear that too many Christian ministries escape their true responsibility to provide for those whom God sends to them to labor in ministry. I have been a Christian school educator for nearly 30 years. As time went on, those promises of better pay in coming years never materialized and often stagnated or even decreased. The disparity was driven home to me when my son desired to attend a Christian college and my wife and I could do little to help him financially. Yet the pastor of our church (as well as other pastors we had served under) had sufficient funds to put all their children through Christian college, sometimes even qualifying for pastoral discounts. Those same pastors pay the teachers in their own schools such a low wage that those teachers must work additional jobs, or have a spouse who has a high paying secular job to support the family. Sometimes those same faculty qualify for public assistance. Some use it, but many do not because it would be frowned upon if word got out that their teachers had to live on government assistance to make ends meet.
Those same pastors would never entertain the thought of taking a church for the salary paid to their teachers in their school. Yet, the idea of their teachers or church staff having to work additional jobs to support their families is viewed as part of the price of serving the Lord in ministry. Should any teachers even bring up the issue of pay … [ I did once and was officially reprimanded that whether I was paid much, little, or even nothing, I should be willing to accept it in order to invest in the lives of my students in Christian education ministry. I should consider myself fortunate to even be allowed to serve in such a capacity as in being paid nothing.] Any “minister” in Christian service who was not willing to work without pay was not only disqualified to serve in Christian ministry, but undeserving and not right with God.
I never understood how that worked for the teachers in the Christian school, but it never went that way for those on pastoral staff or those in school administration. Maybe that explains why so many Christian schools now focus hiring on those who are very young and inexperienced, those whose spouses have well-paying secular jobs, or married couples who are both willing to work in the school … . The equation does not balance out with the Biblical directive that the workman is worthy of his wage.
Those same pastors would never entertain the thought of taking a church for the salary paid to their teachers in their school. Yet, the idea of their teachers or church staff having to work additional jobs to support their families is viewed as part of the price of serving the Lord in ministry. Should any teachers even bring up the issue of pay … [ I did once and was officially reprimanded that whether I was paid much, little, or even nothing, I should be willing to accept it in order to invest in the lives of my students in Christian education ministry. I should consider myself fortunate to even be allowed to serve in such a capacity as in being paid nothing.] Any “minister” in Christian service who was not willing to work without pay was not only disqualified to serve in Christian ministry, but undeserving and not right with God.
I never understood how that worked for the teachers in the Christian school, but it never went that way for those on pastoral staff or those in school administration. Maybe that explains why so many Christian schools now focus hiring on those who are very young and inexperienced, those whose spouses have well-paying secular jobs, or married couples who are both willing to work in the school … . The equation does not balance out with the Biblical directive that the workman is worthy of his wage.
TBD
I must agree fully with the previous post. I have always advocated for better salaries for those who are in what are considered supportive roles, whether that be at a camp or a church.
In one Christian school with which I am acquainted (There are quite a few here in the Des Moines area), a person could make more at fast food or a grocery store than teaching at the school. I know that tuition is a burden for parents, having sent our children through Christian school, but, if you can’t afford the tuition, don’t expect the school to function by underpaying the teachers.
The concept of a worker worthy of his pay should go to all areas of employment, and, as was pointed out, appropriate pay helps a person be a good steward to their family.
In one Christian school with which I am acquainted (There are quite a few here in the Des Moines area), a person could make more at fast food or a grocery store than teaching at the school. I know that tuition is a burden for parents, having sent our children through Christian school, but, if you can’t afford the tuition, don’t expect the school to function by underpaying the teachers.
The concept of a worker worthy of his pay should go to all areas of employment, and, as was pointed out, appropriate pay helps a person be a good steward to their family.
Dick Dayton
I can’t speak to the Bob Jones situation - I just don’t know enough. But it does break my heart when ministries, whether they be colleges or churches, build multi-million dollar facilities while they expect their staff to scrape along poverty level salaries. People first, facilities later.
To me, the salary question relates directly to whether an institution sees itself as building something they want to to be increasingly influential across multiple generations or whether they want to run an institution that does the best it can for a little while longer until Jesus comes.
I’m torn as to which perspective is best. (It’s really not obvious. Believing in the immanent return of Christ is not the same as believing in the “next few decades” return of Christ).
But if you believe we’re only going to be here for a little while longer before it’s all moot, it makes sense to prioritize short term results over long term influence… and that means go for the best short term bargains you can get in faculty, etc.
But if you think we might be here a while longer yet, a few generations longer, the implication is that you want to investing in something that grows stronger, deeper and wider over time. Can’t be done on the cheap.
I’m torn as to which perspective is best. (It’s really not obvious. Believing in the immanent return of Christ is not the same as believing in the “next few decades” return of Christ).
But if you believe we’re only going to be here for a little while longer before it’s all moot, it makes sense to prioritize short term results over long term influence… and that means go for the best short term bargains you can get in faculty, etc.
But if you think we might be here a while longer yet, a few generations longer, the implication is that you want to investing in something that grows stronger, deeper and wider over time. Can’t be done on the cheap.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[sbradley] I can’t speak to the Bob Jones situation - I just don’t know enough. But it does break my heart when ministries, whether they be colleges or churches, build multi-million dollar facilities while they expect their staff to scrape along poverty level salaries. People first, facilities later.I agree with the sentiment; the reality, however, is significantly different.
With educational and camp ministries primarily in mind: Let’s be honest, in our culture to have credibility in either one of these endeavors requires both sufficient (even “elaborate”) facilities and people. The problem is that, except for the rarest occasion, the funding limitations will demand prioritizing one before the other. Facilities require absolutely hard funding. People, on the other hand, due to their commitment to the cause, pioneer spirit, or other factors, can, and many times must, be funded “softer.” The trick is to balance them properly and in a timely manner. And postulating “that’s not the way it should be” is not going to change the reality. It’s like sunrise—that’s just the way it is.
Lee
Kevin,
Thanks again for another great article reminding all of us that we are the recipients of such wonderful benefactors. I have two degrees from BJU and two degrees from DBTS. Your article reminded me of the gratitude I should have toward those institutions that invested so much into my life. I still call my professors on the phone and ask their advice on thorny theological issues. Not only do they unselfishly give of their time, they give of their friendship as well. Of course, the same is true of pastors, school teachers, missionaries. I appreciate the effort that these institutions exert in order to make their schools as affordable as possible. Otherwise, many of our students would not be able to attend our schools, colleges, and seminaries. I know ministries that regularly gives generous Christmas gifts to their teachers, provide free schooling for the children of their teachers, and even provide substantial tuition help for their teachers to send their children to a Christian college. May their tribe increase.
Thanks again for another great article reminding all of us that we are the recipients of such wonderful benefactors. I have two degrees from BJU and two degrees from DBTS. Your article reminded me of the gratitude I should have toward those institutions that invested so much into my life. I still call my professors on the phone and ask their advice on thorny theological issues. Not only do they unselfishly give of their time, they give of their friendship as well. Of course, the same is true of pastors, school teachers, missionaries. I appreciate the effort that these institutions exert in order to make their schools as affordable as possible. Otherwise, many of our students would not be able to attend our schools, colleges, and seminaries. I know ministries that regularly gives generous Christmas gifts to their teachers, provide free schooling for the children of their teachers, and even provide substantial tuition help for their teachers to send their children to a Christian college. May their tribe increase.
Pastor Mike Harding
I find it strange that Dr. Bauder finds this a “strange” criticism. Many institutions, corporate or other, have been criticized for unfair treatment of workers. Clothing and electronic manufacturers, for example, have been under fire for farming out jobs to other continents, where they can use native labor to produce cheap goods while circumventing labor regulations, even those that have to do with safe and respectful working conditions.
An American analogue of yesteryear is the mill town (or coal town). In the mill town, the owners owned the housing, printed the currency, and ran the shops. The system was designed so that after the millers/miners had been paid for their work (in company money), they would pay their rent to the company and buy their goods in the company stores. Many times, the pay was not even sufficient to break even, thus leading to the famous coal miner saying, “another day older and deeper in debt.” Then, when the company was done with the area, it would just pack up and leave; the employees were left homeless, indebted, and unemployed.
The mill town is a case in which the free market is only a hypothetical reality. They tried to establish an employment monopoly in an area, and then kept their employees tightly under their control, limiting their economic options. I believe that Bob Jones University operates similarly to a coal town. The majority of their students come from Christian schools. BJU sends representatives to these schools, who preach sermons or give presentations telling the students that they ought to go to Christian school, at least for one year. Many students are strongly pressured by parents and mentors to go to BJU or a BJU counterpart. Thus, this early in life, their options are already highly constricted.
Next, when the student arrives at BJU, she may complete a semester or year before finding out that the school’s credits will not transfer easily to many other institutions, due to lack of accreditation. In fact, students who express thoughts about leaving will be told this in order to discourage them from leaving. They may also have to endure spiritual counseling and other forms of pressure to stay. So, many will.
After a student graduates, of course, there are many options. But if the student wants to go to graduate school (or seminary), she faces a problem. BJU does not prepare people well for graduate school. It does not push students to write theses; it does not have an honors program; it does not do much study abroad; it does not sponsor many academic conferences and opportunities to present and publish; and of course, faculty at top institutions have no idea who the BJU faculty writing letters of academic recommendation are. Beyond that, the accreditation issue means that many institutions will simply not consider BJU graduates. Thus, many students will simply do graduate school at BJU.
When a student gets through graduate school at BJU or at a third-tier SC school that takes BJU grads, where will that graduate teach? In the highly competitive world of higher education, the graduate is likely to be near the bottom of the applicant pool. Thus, she will turn to the place that (perhaps) will accept her, BJU. She may even live in BJU housing, which may be very affordably priced, since her (lack of) pay is subsidizing it. She will attend a BJU-approved church. If she starts a family, she will be required to send her children to BJ’s various lower-age schools. Thus, her whole life—work, family, friends, church, school—will be inextricably connected to BJU.
If at some point she feels as though she is not being well-treated by the administration, the administration can simply shrug. It’s a free country, and if you don’t like the way things are done here, leave. But they’re smiling inside, because they know that’s like saying, “Fly to the moon.” Finding another job in education would be difficult, it may mean finding a more expensive place to live, and it could result in shunning from or at least strained relations with family, friends, and church.
Thus, it is quite conceivable that at no point in an adult’s life will her decisions really be free. There will likely be, throughout the process, overt pressure labeled as spiritual guidance. Any deviation from the “correct” life path calls one’s spiritual status into question. As such, BJU strikes me more as a mill town with only the appearance of free market choice than as a legitimate corporation, which would pay fairly, or a voluntary ministry, which would not employ such tactics of coercion. From my personal experience, I find it disturbing that BJU positions itself as a ministry when it wants something from you (i.e., you should send money, you should be willing to sacrifice), but as a corporation when employees want something from it (hey, you know what your contract states; live with it).
An American analogue of yesteryear is the mill town (or coal town). In the mill town, the owners owned the housing, printed the currency, and ran the shops. The system was designed so that after the millers/miners had been paid for their work (in company money), they would pay their rent to the company and buy their goods in the company stores. Many times, the pay was not even sufficient to break even, thus leading to the famous coal miner saying, “another day older and deeper in debt.” Then, when the company was done with the area, it would just pack up and leave; the employees were left homeless, indebted, and unemployed.
The mill town is a case in which the free market is only a hypothetical reality. They tried to establish an employment monopoly in an area, and then kept their employees tightly under their control, limiting their economic options. I believe that Bob Jones University operates similarly to a coal town. The majority of their students come from Christian schools. BJU sends representatives to these schools, who preach sermons or give presentations telling the students that they ought to go to Christian school, at least for one year. Many students are strongly pressured by parents and mentors to go to BJU or a BJU counterpart. Thus, this early in life, their options are already highly constricted.
Next, when the student arrives at BJU, she may complete a semester or year before finding out that the school’s credits will not transfer easily to many other institutions, due to lack of accreditation. In fact, students who express thoughts about leaving will be told this in order to discourage them from leaving. They may also have to endure spiritual counseling and other forms of pressure to stay. So, many will.
After a student graduates, of course, there are many options. But if the student wants to go to graduate school (or seminary), she faces a problem. BJU does not prepare people well for graduate school. It does not push students to write theses; it does not have an honors program; it does not do much study abroad; it does not sponsor many academic conferences and opportunities to present and publish; and of course, faculty at top institutions have no idea who the BJU faculty writing letters of academic recommendation are. Beyond that, the accreditation issue means that many institutions will simply not consider BJU graduates. Thus, many students will simply do graduate school at BJU.
When a student gets through graduate school at BJU or at a third-tier SC school that takes BJU grads, where will that graduate teach? In the highly competitive world of higher education, the graduate is likely to be near the bottom of the applicant pool. Thus, she will turn to the place that (perhaps) will accept her, BJU. She may even live in BJU housing, which may be very affordably priced, since her (lack of) pay is subsidizing it. She will attend a BJU-approved church. If she starts a family, she will be required to send her children to BJ’s various lower-age schools. Thus, her whole life—work, family, friends, church, school—will be inextricably connected to BJU.
If at some point she feels as though she is not being well-treated by the administration, the administration can simply shrug. It’s a free country, and if you don’t like the way things are done here, leave. But they’re smiling inside, because they know that’s like saying, “Fly to the moon.” Finding another job in education would be difficult, it may mean finding a more expensive place to live, and it could result in shunning from or at least strained relations with family, friends, and church.
Thus, it is quite conceivable that at no point in an adult’s life will her decisions really be free. There will likely be, throughout the process, overt pressure labeled as spiritual guidance. Any deviation from the “correct” life path calls one’s spiritual status into question. As such, BJU strikes me more as a mill town with only the appearance of free market choice than as a legitimate corporation, which would pay fairly, or a voluntary ministry, which would not employ such tactics of coercion. From my personal experience, I find it disturbing that BJU positions itself as a ministry when it wants something from you (i.e., you should send money, you should be willing to sacrifice), but as a corporation when employees want something from it (hey, you know what your contract states; live with it).
My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com
Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin
As I mentioned above, not only did I receive two degrees from BJU, my wife (Jenny Harding) also graduated from BJ Academy and received a Music Ed. degree from BJU. Subsequently, my wife enrolled in the graduate program at Eastern Michigan University and completed a Master’s degree in voice. Jenny has taught music in our Christian school for 25 years. She has also taught music part time in several of the major public high schools in our area. She always receives high marks and excellent reviews from all her employers. BJU did an excellent job training my wife from 8th grade through her Bachelor’s degree. She excelled at Eastern Michigan and Michigan and was at the top of her class compared to her peers. When I enrolled at DBTS, a very difficult and demanding seminary, I discovered very quickly that the undergraduate and graduate training I had received at BJU prepared me well for the critical thinking and writing skills necessary to produce countless lengthy papers and a highly technical thesis.
Pastor Mike Harding
I don’t doubt anything you wrote about your own experience, Mike. However, I think we can both agree that accreditation standards and the issue of credit transference have changed dramatically in the last 25 years. Due to the rise of diploma mills, internet based education and their questionable “degrees”, for-profit educational franchises and a number of other factors, accrediting agencies are far more suspicious of non-accredited institutions than they were previously. In addition, today’s students are far more erudite, demanding and aware of the long-term consequences of an unaccredited degree in today’s workforce than were those of our day. I’m grateful that some institutions appear to be moving in a direction that addresses those legitimate concerns. Hopefully, this will not be a temporary reaction, but a determined adjustment to provide the best credentials possible to their graduates.
Compensation issues are always a difficult topic and there is no way that the limitations of a forum like this can provide for an adequate discussion. I’ve spent the last 25 years trying to navigate this administrative ministry minefield and its myriad facets of consideration and will quickly admit that I have never been satisfied for a single day with where we were. The one thing that IS essential in the process of human resources in a ministry setting is clear and transparent communication and a sound financial policy which follows industry standards of percentages, budgeting and ratios. When we turn these policies and practices into a political tug-of-war, issues for contention, unbalanced or unfair assignments or something that is addressed by ongoing and frequent turnover, then we have abdicated responsibility and invited scorn and wounded/devalued feelings from those who so faithfully serve.
Compensation issues are always a difficult topic and there is no way that the limitations of a forum like this can provide for an adequate discussion. I’ve spent the last 25 years trying to navigate this administrative ministry minefield and its myriad facets of consideration and will quickly admit that I have never been satisfied for a single day with where we were. The one thing that IS essential in the process of human resources in a ministry setting is clear and transparent communication and a sound financial policy which follows industry standards of percentages, budgeting and ratios. When we turn these policies and practices into a political tug-of-war, issues for contention, unbalanced or unfair assignments or something that is addressed by ongoing and frequent turnover, then we have abdicated responsibility and invited scorn and wounded/devalued feelings from those who so faithfully serve.
Dan Burrell Cornelius, NC Visit my Blog "Whirled Views" @ www.danburrell.com
I grew up in a family supported by BJU salaries. My dad works more than full time, and my mom works 20 hours a week. My dad planted a church pastored while being in grad school and working. He speaks in a lot of churches who frequently give honoraria and that helps. His work ethic is and was nothing short of epic. BJU is striving to bring its salaries in line to be comparable with what the faculty and staff might make in other fields, but they’re also trying to keep tuition down. It’s a bigs struggle to work day in and day out hearing about students having to drop out because of finances and demand a higher salary.
In addition to faculty, I also had a lot of contact with staff workers, especially maintenance staff. I worked seven years on the maintenance staff in the summers and Christmas vacations. These guys didn’t make much, but they also could make a good bit on Saturdays on side jobs. But they were committed to the mission of the school. They loved the atmosphere for the most part. Many got free Christian K-college education for their kids. That’s not a minor detail. For those who really believe in the value of Christian education, that benefit was priceless to say, a brick mason who would have no way to pay for such education working a different job.
Neither I nor my parents would trade the experience of a unique environment for children to grow and flourish. But I did see some downsides to earlier forms of “socialism” (as Stephen Jones rightly named the old system). Over time, a mentality developed that every good and perfect gift came from the Bob. Some were trapped in the system to the point to where, if they left it, they wouldn’t reap the benefits of sacrifices they had made for decades. The wider society used to have workers that worked all their lives at one company. Now it’s different. We now work a few years at this job or that, then move on. BJU is now dealing with that reality and what employees demand because of that reality.
In addition to faculty, I also had a lot of contact with staff workers, especially maintenance staff. I worked seven years on the maintenance staff in the summers and Christmas vacations. These guys didn’t make much, but they also could make a good bit on Saturdays on side jobs. But they were committed to the mission of the school. They loved the atmosphere for the most part. Many got free Christian K-college education for their kids. That’s not a minor detail. For those who really believe in the value of Christian education, that benefit was priceless to say, a brick mason who would have no way to pay for such education working a different job.
Neither I nor my parents would trade the experience of a unique environment for children to grow and flourish. But I did see some downsides to earlier forms of “socialism” (as Stephen Jones rightly named the old system). Over time, a mentality developed that every good and perfect gift came from the Bob. Some were trapped in the system to the point to where, if they left it, they wouldn’t reap the benefits of sacrifices they had made for decades. The wider society used to have workers that worked all their lives at one company. Now it’s different. We now work a few years at this job or that, then move on. BJU is now dealing with that reality and what employees demand because of that reality.
[Lee]Lee put his finger on a real point here. As an IT/DB manager for a small nonprofit, budgets aren’t always as clear as buildings or salary…do you invest, say, in the software to make the employee’s jobs easier or do you take that money and put it into training and education to make the older software last longer? Do you upgrade the three/four year old PC or just buy a new one? In a BJU’s case, do you build the desperately needed parking garage even though the pianos in the music building are badly out of tune and the maintenance department needs to repaint and recarpet all the dorms? And if you do the dorms, can you still pay for the internet switches and routers that are running at 98% capacity on a 10/100 network and didn’t get replaced last year?[sbradley] I can’t speak to the Bob Jones situation - I just don’t know enough. But it does break my heart when ministries, whether they be colleges or churches, build multi-million dollar facilities while they expect their staff to scrape along poverty level salaries. People first, facilities later.I agree with the sentiment; the reality, however, is significantly different.
With educational and camp ministries primarily in mind: Let’s be honest, in our culture to have credibility in either one of these endeavors requires both sufficient (even “elaborate”) facilities and people. The problem is that, except for the rarest occasion, the funding limitations will demand prioritizing one before the other. Facilities require absolutely hard funding. People, on the other hand, due to their commitment to the cause, pioneer spirit, or other factors, can, and many times must, be funded “softer.” The trick is to balance them properly and in a timely manner. And postulating “that’s not the way it should be” is not going to change the reality. It’s like sunrise—that’s just the way it is.
I’ve also sat on church boards where we had lengthy discussions about COLA/HSA/other compensation for the pastor - and in another church where the budget that I helped work on came under loud criticism because the pastor’s compensation was perceived as being more extravagant than the people in the church, and a proposed motion for a 5% raise (I think) nearly caused a fight. I wish I had the ability to fund every initiative and give fat bonuses, but that’s not reality, which is where passages like John 10:13 come into play.
It’s tough, and whoever leaked that salary data made the financial/accounting side much harder. I think Bauder was wise to address this issue, even in he and others can’t necessarily provide solutions.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
“People, on the other hand, due to their commitment to the cause, pioneer spirit, or other factors, can, and many times must, be funded “softer.” The trick is to balance them properly and in a timely manner. And postulating “that’s not the way it should be” is not going to change the reality. It’s like sunrise—that’s just the way it is. “
“The workman is worthy … .” is a direct quote from Scripture. If we believe Scripture is what it says it is, then there is little point in dancing a jig around what God plainly expects. That the idea of being in Christian ministry for low pay—or even no pay—can be justified by saying it “is just the way it is” while pastors and administrators enjoy the fruits of their labors and educational qualifications at the same time those under them should count themselves fortunate that they get paid at all does not follow. Softer funding is a euphemism for something else.
Is it that Scripture applies to those it is preached at, but not to those who do the preaching (leading)? If one is in a position of authority, does that authority entitle them to wrest the Scriptures and sidestep its teachings … just because they are the leaders? Sauce … for the goose? I have seen pastors argue the same rationale for poverty teacher wages in their schools (softer funding), while they drive around in a Cadillac, Lincoln Continental, or Mercedes Benz. The teachers in their schools work 2nd jobs just to afford a used car. Pastors and administrators live in nice homes worth 6 figures and dabble in personal real estate investments while the teachers in their schools must share a cheap apartment or buy a mobile home. Call it “softer funding?”
It is almost tragically humorous to read of leadership boards coming to fisticuffs over giving raises when not a one of them would work for what they pay their teachers. While they rake in six figure incomes from their secular jobs, to then get in a fistfight over giving the teachers in their school a 4% pay raise—what is 4% of a $15,000-$17,000 starting salary anyway? Compare that to a 4% pay raise on a $75,000 salary! Then to justify such behavior by saying that is “just the way it is” … what does that say about the God we claim to serve. Is He not an involved party with a vested interest? The teachers are told they must live by faith, but few of the church leaders have a clue what living by faith really is. I know there are exceptions, but for crying out loud—when poverty level salaries are the norm across the board in most Christian ministries while the leaders enjoy comfortable competitive wages and benefits for their labors? I think those leaders will one day explain to God for that. After all, He says the workman is worthy of his hire.
There is no balance in such a skewed rationale. It boils down to simple double-talk.
“The workman is worthy … .” is a direct quote from Scripture. If we believe Scripture is what it says it is, then there is little point in dancing a jig around what God plainly expects. That the idea of being in Christian ministry for low pay—or even no pay—can be justified by saying it “is just the way it is” while pastors and administrators enjoy the fruits of their labors and educational qualifications at the same time those under them should count themselves fortunate that they get paid at all does not follow. Softer funding is a euphemism for something else.
Is it that Scripture applies to those it is preached at, but not to those who do the preaching (leading)? If one is in a position of authority, does that authority entitle them to wrest the Scriptures and sidestep its teachings … just because they are the leaders? Sauce … for the goose? I have seen pastors argue the same rationale for poverty teacher wages in their schools (softer funding), while they drive around in a Cadillac, Lincoln Continental, or Mercedes Benz. The teachers in their schools work 2nd jobs just to afford a used car. Pastors and administrators live in nice homes worth 6 figures and dabble in personal real estate investments while the teachers in their schools must share a cheap apartment or buy a mobile home. Call it “softer funding?”
It is almost tragically humorous to read of leadership boards coming to fisticuffs over giving raises when not a one of them would work for what they pay their teachers. While they rake in six figure incomes from their secular jobs, to then get in a fistfight over giving the teachers in their school a 4% pay raise—what is 4% of a $15,000-$17,000 starting salary anyway? Compare that to a 4% pay raise on a $75,000 salary! Then to justify such behavior by saying that is “just the way it is” … what does that say about the God we claim to serve. Is He not an involved party with a vested interest? The teachers are told they must live by faith, but few of the church leaders have a clue what living by faith really is. I know there are exceptions, but for crying out loud—when poverty level salaries are the norm across the board in most Christian ministries while the leaders enjoy comfortable competitive wages and benefits for their labors? I think those leaders will one day explain to God for that. After all, He says the workman is worthy of his hire.
There is no balance in such a skewed rationale. It boils down to simple double-talk.
TBD
Facilities require absolutely hard funding. People, on the other hand, due to their commitment to the cause, pioneer spirit, or other factors, can, and many times must, be funded “softer.”This is a solid point. I’d add that faulting an institution for spending lots of money on facilities tends to also be a short-term thinking problem. If you expect to be influencing leaders for generations, part of that package is that your institution becomes meaningful at every level. Buildings have meaning. Institutions that throw together ugly boxes—and are content with that—are clearly not looking comprehensively at their potency in the pursuit of truth, beauty and goodness.
I would never say “buildings before people,” but it’s also simplistic to say “people before buildings.”
Where serious effort to raise faculty salaries pays long-term dividends is that the institution has the ability to draw from a larger pool of applicants and to free their faculty up more to pursue their passions. If hirers have chosen well, those passions tend to go in directions that enhance the influence of the faculty and, therefore, of the institution much more than “Well, I have to feed my family so I guess I’ll try to publish a book” does.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
This whole thing is of interest to me, of course. I am nearing the end of my 39th year in Christian education. My first 11 years out of college, I taught in a Christian high school. During those 11 years, I married and all three of our children were born. Although my salary was not high by any stretch of any imagination, once our children started arriving, my wife was able to stay home. When the Lord called us to BJU 28 years ago, at that time my wife had to work part time - the school’s retirement that we knew would be part of our going on staff. I can honestly say that the Lord has met every need and supplied many wants. Neither my wife nor I came from Christian families and they were anything but wealthy. They did not help us at all financially - an advantage that some people in Christian education have.
Through the years our budget has been tight, but I can honestly say that my wife’s frugality is what has allowed us to stay in Christian work throughout our whole adult lives. The tuition benefit for our children was a huge plus, especially since we obviously are convinced of the importance of Christian education. By God’s grace, our kids have become well-adjusted adults who are serving the Lord out of hearts of love. There were aspects of being faculty children that made some expenditures impossible, but my kids never complained or felt deprived. In fact, they thanked me that they were able to finish four years of college and start adult life debt free. Also because of the Lord’s leading in my life, my kids were able to go to Europe at least 5 times (our youngest went 6 times) as my wife and I led summer missions teams to France. How many children of teachers in Christian schools can say that?! :-)
Everyone’s situation is different, and through the years I have tried to be careful not to judge people who have had to leave ministry because of finances. Everyone handles money differently, and every family’s needs are different. But it’s been so neat and faith-growing to see the Lord provide in unusual ways as we’ve depended on Him. It’s especially rewarding to see our kids trying to be frugal in their own homes.
I guess I just want to say that the Lord has been so good, and I would choose the same teaching positions again in a heartbeat if I could live my life all over again! No regrets.
Through the years our budget has been tight, but I can honestly say that my wife’s frugality is what has allowed us to stay in Christian work throughout our whole adult lives. The tuition benefit for our children was a huge plus, especially since we obviously are convinced of the importance of Christian education. By God’s grace, our kids have become well-adjusted adults who are serving the Lord out of hearts of love. There were aspects of being faculty children that made some expenditures impossible, but my kids never complained or felt deprived. In fact, they thanked me that they were able to finish four years of college and start adult life debt free. Also because of the Lord’s leading in my life, my kids were able to go to Europe at least 5 times (our youngest went 6 times) as my wife and I led summer missions teams to France. How many children of teachers in Christian schools can say that?! :-)
Everyone’s situation is different, and through the years I have tried to be careful not to judge people who have had to leave ministry because of finances. Everyone handles money differently, and every family’s needs are different. But it’s been so neat and faith-growing to see the Lord provide in unusual ways as we’ve depended on Him. It’s especially rewarding to see our kids trying to be frugal in their own homes.
I guess I just want to say that the Lord has been so good, and I would choose the same teaching positions again in a heartbeat if I could live my life all over again! No regrets.
Private school is more and more becoming out of reach for the average church family. The cost of private learning has increased dramatically over the increase of average people’s incomes in the last 20-30 years. State sponsored education is most folk’s only alternative. Private Christian universities, like BJU, have to think different than traditional methods. Will the economy improve? Yes, but not like in past. Schools need to plan for that reality.
For years BJU has tried to be ALL things to ALL people ALL over the world. It thought since it has all these majors that there is no reason anyone, anywhere should attend a secular undergraduate program. If, by chance, there is a field of study that wasn’t taught at a Christian university, then it’s not God’s calling that the student be in that field of study. As a result, BJU has now only 3-4K students yet provides 90 majors? That’s clearly financially unsustainable because you are paying faculty for majors that have a handful of participants; therefore, having to lower salaries for all faculty to meet budget constraints. Not only is it financially unsustainable, it waters down many majors and makes them substandard in the market even if the school obtains accreditation, leaving parents and students frustrated that much resource was spent with not alot to show for it. Parents can’t afford to be frivolous when it comes to spending $75K over four years of education.
BJU needs to take an honest look at their different programs and weed out ones that a. Do not have alot of student demand and b. Viewed substandard in the marketplace. Usually the two go hand in hand. School of Religion, Undergraduate Business, Education, Nursing, and certain Fine Arts programs seem to be solid BJU offerings for the marketplace. There may be others I’m not mentioning, but all need to be scrutinized and eliminated if the quality is lacking in order to save the good programs and give the remaining faculty better compensation. Point is, BJU needs to strive to not be THE only choice for all Christian students, but a good quality choice for some, depending on their field of calling.
So what do Christian parents do when their child wants to pursue an area where Christian universities do not excel? This is what me and many parents of teenagers are struggling with. I would love to send them to my alma mater and study, live, and befriend other Christian young people. To sit under wonderful Bible professors for classes I thoroughly enjoyed and have benefitted. But can we afford $75K of education when most likely they’ll need to pay out to a secular institution later to be accepted in their field?
I almost wish the University had some type of Bible Institute program where parents can send their children for a year before they go off to their secular field of study. One year of solid Bible classes, 18 hours a semester and living with other Christian students. I know there are online Bible courses they can take, but it’s not the same as being there in class, learning and interracting with other young people.
i apologize for my rambling..
The following quote comes from a footnote in my upcoming book -
227The Deuteronomy passage teaches that under the Mosaic Law even the needs of the working animals were to be a priority. Earl S. Kalland explains the passage by stating, “In the threshing process oxen or other heavy animals (especially donkeys) were led around a threshing floor, sometimes harnessed to a central pivot. The stalks of grain were laid on the floor, and the hooves of the animals and sometimes a sledge drawn by animals would separate the kernels from the stalks and hulls.” Earl S. Kalland, “Deuteronomy.” in EBC (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1992), 3:149. Paul applies this verse to the responsibility of the local church to care for those who minister the Word (1 Timothy 5:18, 1 Corinthians 9:9). This does not preclude Christian workers from exercising their right to give up that rightful compensation. This is what Paul and Barnabas did according to 1 Corinthians 9. This is what several of the elders do at Southeast Valley Baptist Church. They volunteer their time and energy as elders yet choose to work a secular job to meet the financial needs of their families. That does not make their position any less honorable. If anything it adds to their honor. The church’s commitment must be to pay what the servant needs and is worthy of. The servant may exercise the right to do without and supplement through other employment. That is very different than a church that chooses to ignore its responsibility because of a larger commitment to the “pyramid” or the “box.” To see clear evidence of this failure amongst contemporary ministries, especially within the context of Christian education, see the work done by Jeffrey P. Tuttle, “An analysis of Christian School Compensation Patterns In Pennsylvania” (D.Ed. diss., Bob Jones University, May 1988).
For whatever that’s worth - Straight Ahead!
jt
227The Deuteronomy passage teaches that under the Mosaic Law even the needs of the working animals were to be a priority. Earl S. Kalland explains the passage by stating, “In the threshing process oxen or other heavy animals (especially donkeys) were led around a threshing floor, sometimes harnessed to a central pivot. The stalks of grain were laid on the floor, and the hooves of the animals and sometimes a sledge drawn by animals would separate the kernels from the stalks and hulls.” Earl S. Kalland, “Deuteronomy.” in EBC (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1992), 3:149. Paul applies this verse to the responsibility of the local church to care for those who minister the Word (1 Timothy 5:18, 1 Corinthians 9:9). This does not preclude Christian workers from exercising their right to give up that rightful compensation. This is what Paul and Barnabas did according to 1 Corinthians 9. This is what several of the elders do at Southeast Valley Baptist Church. They volunteer their time and energy as elders yet choose to work a secular job to meet the financial needs of their families. That does not make their position any less honorable. If anything it adds to their honor. The church’s commitment must be to pay what the servant needs and is worthy of. The servant may exercise the right to do without and supplement through other employment. That is very different than a church that chooses to ignore its responsibility because of a larger commitment to the “pyramid” or the “box.” To see clear evidence of this failure amongst contemporary ministries, especially within the context of Christian education, see the work done by Jeffrey P. Tuttle, “An analysis of Christian School Compensation Patterns In Pennsylvania” (D.Ed. diss., Bob Jones University, May 1988).
For whatever that’s worth - Straight Ahead!
jt
Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Bible Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;
When a workman chooses to accept the low salary of a Christian ministry because he loves the Lord and trusts the Lord to provide, that is a choice. I too have seen the Lord provide in wondrous ways for me and my family over the past nearly 30 years. Yet, more often than not I wonder if this is *IN SPITE OF* rather than because of the ministry pay. The leaders of such ministries bear a responsibility not just for their sheep to whom they minister, but for the Lord’s servants sent by Him to assist them in their ministries.
The leaders often have a large portion of their daily expenses underwritten by the church. Teachers in the Christian school, on the other hand, must pay for their own utilities, car, personal insurance, house payments, etc. The Christian school teacher has the same financial obligations to support his family as does the pastor and school administrator, but often must do it on a paycheck that is half or less than what those in leadership make. To burden the teachers with having to work additional jobs to support their families, yet then simply excuse it as part of the self-sacrifice of working in a ministry actually detract from the effectiveness of their ministry. Time they must spend on a second job to make ends meet is time and effort they cannot use for preparation and development in the ministry to which they are called–unless they become “workaholics” and sacrifice all upon the altar of a particular ministry. Working until they lose their health, their position, and sometimes even their families—to say nothing of their joy and passion for the ministry. How many have burned themselves out of the ministry and what does the ministry they served in such a manner do to help them now? They suffer alone and forgotten.
Wiser ones have recognized the fact that they cannot support a family as teachers in Christian education and have thus left the ministry for something that would enable them to do so. A few have had the blessing of going into a related field, but most have not. Many excellent and gifted teachers have become salesmen, business men, electricians, builders, or re-trained for something entirely new. Christian education as a cause has suffered great loss as a result of its unwillingness to address this issue. God cannot be pleased with this either, no matter how we, here, may seek to attempt to justify the situation with other explanations.
The people who serve the Lord not just as a side-ministry, but as the means to put food on the table and support their families are worthy of their hire. Trying to skirt the issue by making it more complex than it really is doesn’t wash for me as a former Christian educator who now sits here semi-retired with nothing to show for the dedication and love and self-sacrifice given without reservation or question in those earlier years. When one can make as much being a greeter at Walmart as one can teaching in a Christian school … something is very wrong with such a picture. Pastors and administrators don’t want to see that and refuse to really do anything about it. Why?
1. They don’t really believe the Bible that the Lord will provide for their ministries. They feel compelled to balance their budgets on the backs of those who serve under them.
2. They really don’t believe God is able to provide for the needs of His own work, thus limiting His working through their ministry because of a lack of faith on their part.
3. They are hung up on the false security of their own authority and don’t really believe they will be held accountable. They forget that their teachers may be crying out to God for help as they work extra jobs to pay bills while their leaders don’t have to do that—they are well-taken care of. The Bible assures us that God HEARS those cries and will eventually act.
To say this is just the way Christian education is may partially explain its current demise. K-12 Christian education is now but a shadow of its former “glory” as increasing numbers of Christian parents either opt for homeschooling or the public schools. Many who led the cause of Christian education have really dropped the ball … badly. And—they have no one else to blame except themselves.
The leaders often have a large portion of their daily expenses underwritten by the church. Teachers in the Christian school, on the other hand, must pay for their own utilities, car, personal insurance, house payments, etc. The Christian school teacher has the same financial obligations to support his family as does the pastor and school administrator, but often must do it on a paycheck that is half or less than what those in leadership make. To burden the teachers with having to work additional jobs to support their families, yet then simply excuse it as part of the self-sacrifice of working in a ministry actually detract from the effectiveness of their ministry. Time they must spend on a second job to make ends meet is time and effort they cannot use for preparation and development in the ministry to which they are called–unless they become “workaholics” and sacrifice all upon the altar of a particular ministry. Working until they lose their health, their position, and sometimes even their families—to say nothing of their joy and passion for the ministry. How many have burned themselves out of the ministry and what does the ministry they served in such a manner do to help them now? They suffer alone and forgotten.
Wiser ones have recognized the fact that they cannot support a family as teachers in Christian education and have thus left the ministry for something that would enable them to do so. A few have had the blessing of going into a related field, but most have not. Many excellent and gifted teachers have become salesmen, business men, electricians, builders, or re-trained for something entirely new. Christian education as a cause has suffered great loss as a result of its unwillingness to address this issue. God cannot be pleased with this either, no matter how we, here, may seek to attempt to justify the situation with other explanations.
The people who serve the Lord not just as a side-ministry, but as the means to put food on the table and support their families are worthy of their hire. Trying to skirt the issue by making it more complex than it really is doesn’t wash for me as a former Christian educator who now sits here semi-retired with nothing to show for the dedication and love and self-sacrifice given without reservation or question in those earlier years. When one can make as much being a greeter at Walmart as one can teaching in a Christian school … something is very wrong with such a picture. Pastors and administrators don’t want to see that and refuse to really do anything about it. Why?
1. They don’t really believe the Bible that the Lord will provide for their ministries. They feel compelled to balance their budgets on the backs of those who serve under them.
2. They really don’t believe God is able to provide for the needs of His own work, thus limiting His working through their ministry because of a lack of faith on their part.
3. They are hung up on the false security of their own authority and don’t really believe they will be held accountable. They forget that their teachers may be crying out to God for help as they work extra jobs to pay bills while their leaders don’t have to do that—they are well-taken care of. The Bible assures us that God HEARS those cries and will eventually act.
To say this is just the way Christian education is may partially explain its current demise. K-12 Christian education is now but a shadow of its former “glory” as increasing numbers of Christian parents either opt for homeschooling or the public schools. Many who led the cause of Christian education have really dropped the ball … badly. And—they have no one else to blame except themselves.
TBD
[Barry L.] Private school is more and more becoming out of reach for the average church family. The cost of private learning has increased dramatically over the increase of average people’s incomes in the last 20-30 years. State sponsored education is most folk’s only alternative.I would strongly disagree with this statement. It’s not out reach as much as it is out of priority. The question is really how important it is. If you want late model cars, and to own your own house, and cable, and electronic gadgets then you probably won’t be able to afford private school. However, if you believe training your children is one of the highest callings you have, and you believe that public education is detrimental and contrary to training up children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, you will absolutely find a way.
Our family drives ‘97 and ‘01 vehicles. We rent our home. It’s been about five or six years since we could afford a vacation. I delivered pizza for several years. But my wife is a stay at home mom who homeschools our 11, 6 and 4 year olds because we believe the eternal value of what our children get is far more important than any temporal thing we could afford with a second income. It certainly can be done.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
In partial response and interacting with TBD’s comments above
In response to Bauder’s “The Christian School” article here: http://sharperiron.org/article/christian-school
In response to Bauder’s “The Christian School” article here: http://sharperiron.org/article/christian-school
- If a church can partner with other churches to have a regional school, DO IT! This is superior to a single church hosting a school (Exemptions for churches over 500 in membership)
- If you cannot pay teachers an adequate salary plus benefits (like a health care plan and a 403(b) plan), DON”T START A SCHOOL! I’ve seen poor teachers at the near end of retirement who faithfully served in near poverty! Shame on the schools who treated them like slaves!
- If you cannot host a school with teachers who have degrees in the area in which they are to teach (Math teacher has a math degree or a math / teaching degree, et cetera), DON”T START A SCHOOL
- If you do not intend to seek accreditation, DON”T START A SCHOOL
- If your church is not financially sound, DON”T START A SCHOOL
- If you cannot honestly answer this question “YES” - to a church member, “It is your decision as to where to send your child to school. If you decide to send your child to a public school OR home school, we will still regard you as an equal in our church! And your child will be regarded as an equal in youth group!” - If cannot say “Yes” to this question … DON”T START A SCHOOL!
Jim,
I think I would agree with all of your points except the first one. If a church starts a school, it can only be because they see discipling children in this way as part of their ministry (a point of discussion in and of itself). I do not agree with taking church ministry away from the church and giving it to parachurch organizations. The whole point of a parachurch ministry is supposed to be come along side a church and help it fulfill its ministry, not replace it. I think independent schools fall into this replacement category (and, yes, I mean at all levels).
I think I would agree with all of your points except the first one. If a church starts a school, it can only be because they see discipling children in this way as part of their ministry (a point of discussion in and of itself). I do not agree with taking church ministry away from the church and giving it to parachurch organizations. The whole point of a parachurch ministry is supposed to be come along side a church and help it fulfill its ministry, not replace it. I think independent schools fall into this replacement category (and, yes, I mean at all levels).
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
[Chip Van Emmerik]I was referring to private college and university when I mentioned schools, not K5-12. The costs for those have not escalated as the cost of colleges and universities.[Barry L.] Private school is more and more becoming out of reach for the average church family. The cost of private learning has increased dramatically over the increase of average people’s incomes in the last 20-30 years. State sponsored education is most folk’s only alternative.I would strongly disagree with this statement. It’s not out reach as much as it is out of priority. The question is really how important it is. If you want late model cars, and to own your own house, and cable, and electronic gadgets then you probably won’t be able to afford private school. However, if you believe training your children is one of the highest callings you have, and you believe that public education is detrimental and contrary to training up children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, you will absolutely find a way.
Our family drives ‘97 and ‘01 vehicles. We rent our home. It’s been about five or six years since we could afford a vacation. I delivered pizza for several years. But my wife is a stay at home mom who homeschools our 11, 6 and 4 year olds because we believe the eternal value of what our children get is far more important than any temporal thing we could afford with a second income. It certainly can be done.
I agree with Jim’s post above. Many Christian schools were started ill-advisedly. It has cost the cause of Christian education dearly, too in terms of credibility. My Dad had a crusty, but profound wisdom. He felt that many Christian schools were being started on a whim to jump onto a fadish bandwagon. It was more of a way to gain influence or notoriety in the ministry then it was a genuine ministry. To prove his point he cited the fact that the pastors starting those schools had little or no training or experience in the field of education (generally often true, but not always). They paid low salaries and ended up having to hire teachers without proper training and credentials as well. Education is a HUGE endeavor. The public schools, though funded by taxes, administered and staffed by the most highly trained and credentialed experts in education, and with all their nice facilities … couldn’t do the job very well either. What makes a pastor and teachers without proper training and little church funding a viable prospect? How can such an idea even be sustainable in most churches with Christian schools? Alas, many have long since closed their doors going from some of the largest Christian schools to non-existence or barely surviving from one year to the next. It is a far cry from all the hype of 30 years ago.
I would like to add a perspective to one already expressed; that “it certainly can be done” is not really the point. It can be done. It would be a different story if, in order to do it, one had to pay the going rate for professionally degreed and certified professionals along the way. The only reason it “can be done” is because a lot of people along the way sacrifice as much or more so than the parents to get it done. Those folks deserve better than all the complaints and backbiting they usually end up enduring in addition to a tiny paycheck.
I taught briefly in one Christian school that paid a salary competitive to what I could earn in a public school, but they charged nearly $10,000 tuition per year ($3000 more than what I was paid my first year as a Christian school teacher!) And, because of their testimony and credibility in the community, they drew a good deal of financial support from outside sources as well. However their clientele was mostly one of wealthy Christians…I mean wealthy. They not only had multiple children in the school, but their up-north “cottages”, wave runners, 4-wheelers, vacation cruises–-my word, some of those folks spent more money on their daughters sweet 16 birthday party than the average person spends on her wedding! Those parents don’t want any teachers who live in mobile homes teaching their kids. Of course, all teachers—including me—held graduate degrees or were working on them, and were state certified. The school was accredited and its educational program is as credible as any of the local public schools. Smartboard technology is now in most if not all their classrooms. That is what a quality school requires and churches who do not have such resources and support from their clientele should not have schools.
I would like to add a perspective to one already expressed; that “it certainly can be done” is not really the point. It can be done. It would be a different story if, in order to do it, one had to pay the going rate for professionally degreed and certified professionals along the way. The only reason it “can be done” is because a lot of people along the way sacrifice as much or more so than the parents to get it done. Those folks deserve better than all the complaints and backbiting they usually end up enduring in addition to a tiny paycheck.
I taught briefly in one Christian school that paid a salary competitive to what I could earn in a public school, but they charged nearly $10,000 tuition per year ($3000 more than what I was paid my first year as a Christian school teacher!) And, because of their testimony and credibility in the community, they drew a good deal of financial support from outside sources as well. However their clientele was mostly one of wealthy Christians…I mean wealthy. They not only had multiple children in the school, but their up-north “cottages”, wave runners, 4-wheelers, vacation cruises–-my word, some of those folks spent more money on their daughters sweet 16 birthday party than the average person spends on her wedding! Those parents don’t want any teachers who live in mobile homes teaching their kids. Of course, all teachers—including me—held graduate degrees or were working on them, and were state certified. The school was accredited and its educational program is as credible as any of the local public schools. Smartboard technology is now in most if not all their classrooms. That is what a quality school requires and churches who do not have such resources and support from their clientele should not have schools.
TBD
TBD is actulally very close on every point he makes on the situation that has existed in Christian Schools.
I have been in the ministry for 38 years, 35 of which involve Chriistian education. I have senior pastored for 37 years. Having read all these posts, TBD
seems to have been where I have observed and served.
My first opportunity to join full time ministry was declined by me becasue I wanted nothing to do with a Chriistian school. That was way back in 1973. Since then, I have had almost nothing to do with but be part of a Christian school. I am a super advocate of Christian ed. I am a one year principal of a
Christian school now. My term is up at the end of May. I took this post to fill in until a much more seasoned administrator than myself comes here. Praise the Lord, June is coming. Also, no church was interested in me even interviewing for the pastoral position. I was even turned down by boards I didn’t know my name was given to. Imagine, getting a thanks, but no thanks letter from a church you did not know you were interested in. Cool.
The truth is, it always hurt me that our school staff had to financially sacrifice way beyond myself, except for my own financial sutpitity. The economics of paying what they were worth, because of our interest in providing an opportunity for parents to send their children to our Christian schools, plus the fear of pricing ourselves out of existence, did not allow us to pay what we wished we could pay.
I did not, however, feel our teachers were carnal or unspiritual if they felt they needed to go somewhere else and teach, even in a public school, or choose a different vocation to meet the needs of their families.
I will also say, if our teacher did not recieve raises, neither did I. One could say that should be easy because I was already the highest paid person on staff since I was the pastor. Well, the last church I pastored, I was also the principal, had no compensation for that, plus went the last five years without any pay increase, but did lose some annual income.
I have always wished our church would have co-oped with other like churches for the school which I think would have enhanced the opportunities of both staff and young people alike. The school board did not want that.
The pastor and board members of theses types of ministries could at least imagine themselves sitting in the shoes of these servants of God teachers and give to them once in a while, and make them public examples of Godly believers for our churches to honor them as some of God’s special servants. Remember, they are training our children.
I have been in the ministry for 38 years, 35 of which involve Chriistian education. I have senior pastored for 37 years. Having read all these posts, TBD
seems to have been where I have observed and served.
My first opportunity to join full time ministry was declined by me becasue I wanted nothing to do with a Chriistian school. That was way back in 1973. Since then, I have had almost nothing to do with but be part of a Christian school. I am a super advocate of Christian ed. I am a one year principal of a
Christian school now. My term is up at the end of May. I took this post to fill in until a much more seasoned administrator than myself comes here. Praise the Lord, June is coming. Also, no church was interested in me even interviewing for the pastoral position. I was even turned down by boards I didn’t know my name was given to. Imagine, getting a thanks, but no thanks letter from a church you did not know you were interested in. Cool.
The truth is, it always hurt me that our school staff had to financially sacrifice way beyond myself, except for my own financial sutpitity. The economics of paying what they were worth, because of our interest in providing an opportunity for parents to send their children to our Christian schools, plus the fear of pricing ourselves out of existence, did not allow us to pay what we wished we could pay.
I did not, however, feel our teachers were carnal or unspiritual if they felt they needed to go somewhere else and teach, even in a public school, or choose a different vocation to meet the needs of their families.
I will also say, if our teacher did not recieve raises, neither did I. One could say that should be easy because I was already the highest paid person on staff since I was the pastor. Well, the last church I pastored, I was also the principal, had no compensation for that, plus went the last five years without any pay increase, but did lose some annual income.
I have always wished our church would have co-oped with other like churches for the school which I think would have enhanced the opportunities of both staff and young people alike. The school board did not want that.
The pastor and board members of theses types of ministries could at least imagine themselves sitting in the shoes of these servants of God teachers and give to them once in a while, and make them public examples of Godly believers for our churches to honor them as some of God’s special servants. Remember, they are training our children.
With all the Christian leaders who frequent this site, it is interesting how the issues I brought up seem to be pretty much ignored. Perhaps, some of my perspectives hit a little too close to home speaking as one from inside the Christian school movement from its heydays to its current sad state of affairs.
As I recall the potential which was the hallmark of the movement 30 years ago with how that potential has been squandered, my heart breaks. Sheffy’s grief over the decline of the old tent revival meetings has a depth of meaning for me now. I see too many pastors and leaders who are more concerned about money, influence, position, power, and control than they are about ministry to people. People have become the means to an end rather than the end. Dedicated servants of the Lord have been used and abused to build “ministries” with plush facilities and impressive programs, but when their human resources were exhausted and depleted, those same people who gave the most and worked the hardest sacrificing their lives, themselves, and sometimes their families are tossed aside like empty cans. They serve no more purpose. They step down and retire … worn out and used up with little to show for it except social security—and if they were fortunate—a SELF-FUNDED retirement with few, if any matching “employer contributions.” Yet they consider it all worth it; a testimony to their servant spirits and their love for the Lord.
Such is not ministry, it is “spiritual” empire building. Christian schools have become useless as a means to building such empires; and as wiser ones warned from the start, using the Christian school in such a manner would never work. It hasn’t and as such was destined to ultimate failure. It is no surprise that so many schools have simply closed because of declining enrollment. The vision is long since lost.
Of those which remain, they survive by being interdenominational. Others survive by intentionally limiting their outreach to only the families in their own “Baptist” church or other “Baptist” churches of like faith and similar practice because they do not want the problems that interdenominational appeal can bring. They choose to remain small and adjust their budgets to survive accordingly.
The smaller schools are so technologically deficient that they cannot any longer compete with the options available in the public schools, nor do they even try. They will stick with the “time-tested, old-fashioned ways.” If such logic is valid then why not go all the way back to the days of a one-room school, hard wood seats, coal scuttle, feather pens, and slates? Why not go back to the days when only boy apprentices were tutored by a master? Take it all the way back in the old “Way Back Machine.” The logic sort of falls apart doesn’t it.
So many such schools lack the funds to even sustain a bare-bones science program in spite of the nice science lab they may have built. No one seems to have thought that far ahead that a quality science program must be not only maintained, but growing to stay current. It comes back to that old idea of having started a school ill-advisedly—without thinking it through and counting the real cost. It is not that it can’t be done. IS God able? He is! But what has happened to the potential of the Christian education movement is not related to God’s ability but to the lack of the commitment of the leaders He appointed and their own people. Without a vision, the people perish.
As I recall the potential which was the hallmark of the movement 30 years ago with how that potential has been squandered, my heart breaks. Sheffy’s grief over the decline of the old tent revival meetings has a depth of meaning for me now. I see too many pastors and leaders who are more concerned about money, influence, position, power, and control than they are about ministry to people. People have become the means to an end rather than the end. Dedicated servants of the Lord have been used and abused to build “ministries” with plush facilities and impressive programs, but when their human resources were exhausted and depleted, those same people who gave the most and worked the hardest sacrificing their lives, themselves, and sometimes their families are tossed aside like empty cans. They serve no more purpose. They step down and retire … worn out and used up with little to show for it except social security—and if they were fortunate—a SELF-FUNDED retirement with few, if any matching “employer contributions.” Yet they consider it all worth it; a testimony to their servant spirits and their love for the Lord.
Such is not ministry, it is “spiritual” empire building. Christian schools have become useless as a means to building such empires; and as wiser ones warned from the start, using the Christian school in such a manner would never work. It hasn’t and as such was destined to ultimate failure. It is no surprise that so many schools have simply closed because of declining enrollment. The vision is long since lost.
Of those which remain, they survive by being interdenominational. Others survive by intentionally limiting their outreach to only the families in their own “Baptist” church or other “Baptist” churches of like faith and similar practice because they do not want the problems that interdenominational appeal can bring. They choose to remain small and adjust their budgets to survive accordingly.
The smaller schools are so technologically deficient that they cannot any longer compete with the options available in the public schools, nor do they even try. They will stick with the “time-tested, old-fashioned ways.” If such logic is valid then why not go all the way back to the days of a one-room school, hard wood seats, coal scuttle, feather pens, and slates? Why not go back to the days when only boy apprentices were tutored by a master? Take it all the way back in the old “Way Back Machine.” The logic sort of falls apart doesn’t it.
So many such schools lack the funds to even sustain a bare-bones science program in spite of the nice science lab they may have built. No one seems to have thought that far ahead that a quality science program must be not only maintained, but growing to stay current. It comes back to that old idea of having started a school ill-advisedly—without thinking it through and counting the real cost. It is not that it can’t be done. IS God able? He is! But what has happened to the potential of the Christian education movement is not related to God’s ability but to the lack of the commitment of the leaders He appointed and their own people. Without a vision, the people perish.
TBD
[TBD] With all the Christian leaders who frequent this site, it is interesting how the issues I brought up seem to be pretty much ignored. Perhaps, some of my perspectives hit a little too close to home speaking as one from inside the Christian school movement from its heydays to its current sad state of affairs.About the “pretty much ignored”
- The church were I am a member has http://fourthbaptistchristianschool.org/ a very solid Christian school . We pay our teachers an adequate salary! Our church has the size, the facilities, and the commitment to provide excellence in education AND a good working environment (including pay)
- I suspect that the vast majority of the Pastors on this site, Pastor churches without Christian schools. So to be fair, they don’t own the problem
- I know that the issues are not “pretty much ignored” because they have been discussed again and again.
- My own view, and this is not the first time I’ve stated it (see above) is that the CDS (Christian Day School) model is pretty much broken and unstainable for many churches. I don’t have vast knowlege of the CDS landscape but I have knowlege about a number of Church-sponsored CDSs in Minnesota. In one very pitiful case the school basically is the church with a handful (less than 50) worshippers on a Sunday. One long time S/I member (who happens to be a Pastor) closed his church’s ACE school because it was unable to adequately pay the staff.
- This is going to sound harsh because of your own dedication to the CSD movement, but part of the problem is the willingness for teachers to be underpaid. Certainly the predominance of abysmally low pay is not new news!
- Realistically any one pastor or S/I member has no sway over another church’s CDS!
It’s easy to say … you ought to pay me an adequate salary. But the flip side is that YOU are worthy of your own hire. I was an underpaid pastor for a number of years. My wife worked and the ends were met. But the trend line in my case is that I was not likely be paid a salary. I went out and got a job in IT
Since I have not been a teacher, but with a lot of Chriistian school experience, if that is true, I think 10 per cent or less.
Those who have taught are so desirous to serve our Lord they take the positions. If they do not, the ministry will find someone else.
I admit we never charge for tuition what the teachers are worth, perhaps we should have tried. Perhaps the schools would have closed.
I do not believe the answers are easy.
As much as I feel badly for TBD and his experience, we should all count it joy that our Wonderful Lord has allowed us the priivlege of serving Him.
I am sure the one who remains I Cor. 15:58 will recieve due reward in Glory.
Another thing, I do remember when pastors considered it a status symbol to have a Christian school. I also remember when some considered themselves to be free when that school no longer existed or they went to another ministry. God has blessed me by giving me a heart for Christian education far beyond what I ever dreamed.
TBD,
I don’t think that we know each other. I am not familiar, to my knowledge, with your place of service. I don’t have, therefore, any context to evaluate your assertions and anecdotes regarding staff and compensation issues. So, for someone like me to not make any comments about what you’ve written is simply a reflection of those realities, not that you’ve made some ironclad case about the problems within Christian education. I’ll speak for myself—my silence doesn’t mean I agree with you.
Do I think that some places fit the description you’ve offered? Sure. Do I think you’re assessment of things is also skewed by your own experiences? Certainly. Do I think it does much good to come on SharperIron and argument with you about subjective observations based on your personal experience? No, not at all. My silence has simply been the reflection of the fact that, given the subject at hand, it is a no win situation to disagree with anything you’ve said—there are simply too many variables at play, too much subjectivity in this discussion, and real people are facing real financial hardships.
We probably agree on more than we disagree, and what I disagree with you about is mainly the accusatory tone and careless generalizations. But, I’ve not been in your shoes, so I can’t assess whether the pastors you’ve known are as greedy as you have painted them out to be. I sure hope not. If so, they shouldn’t be pastors. I am sure that there greedy pastors, but I think that they are in the minority.
And I think the gap that you and I both think is wrong doesn’t always or even usually come from greed, but from a variety of other factors. There is not a silver bullet answer to this problem. It probably would be good to have a thread or two dedicated to talking about solutions, but this was a thread designed to honor commitment to ministry that was redirected, in my view, to impugning other people’s motives for ministry. You wondered about why some are silent regarding your posts, so I’m only here to offer my answer to that question.
As for our church, we are working hard to take care of those who serve here, consistently trying to increase their regular pay, designing a top notch benefits package that addresses the necessities of life now and down the road, and distributing significant amounts of additional compensation if our revenues exceed our expenses during a given year. I’ve added this last paragraph simply to show that we take the matter seriously and, by God’s grace, have been aggressive in trying to meet the needs of those who serve Christ here. Nobody is getting rich here, at least not in this world. God is graciously taking care of His servants and we are full of thanksgiving for that.
I don’t think that we know each other. I am not familiar, to my knowledge, with your place of service. I don’t have, therefore, any context to evaluate your assertions and anecdotes regarding staff and compensation issues. So, for someone like me to not make any comments about what you’ve written is simply a reflection of those realities, not that you’ve made some ironclad case about the problems within Christian education. I’ll speak for myself—my silence doesn’t mean I agree with you.
Do I think that some places fit the description you’ve offered? Sure. Do I think you’re assessment of things is also skewed by your own experiences? Certainly. Do I think it does much good to come on SharperIron and argument with you about subjective observations based on your personal experience? No, not at all. My silence has simply been the reflection of the fact that, given the subject at hand, it is a no win situation to disagree with anything you’ve said—there are simply too many variables at play, too much subjectivity in this discussion, and real people are facing real financial hardships.
We probably agree on more than we disagree, and what I disagree with you about is mainly the accusatory tone and careless generalizations. But, I’ve not been in your shoes, so I can’t assess whether the pastors you’ve known are as greedy as you have painted them out to be. I sure hope not. If so, they shouldn’t be pastors. I am sure that there greedy pastors, but I think that they are in the minority.
And I think the gap that you and I both think is wrong doesn’t always or even usually come from greed, but from a variety of other factors. There is not a silver bullet answer to this problem. It probably would be good to have a thread or two dedicated to talking about solutions, but this was a thread designed to honor commitment to ministry that was redirected, in my view, to impugning other people’s motives for ministry. You wondered about why some are silent regarding your posts, so I’m only here to offer my answer to that question.
As for our church, we are working hard to take care of those who serve here, consistently trying to increase their regular pay, designing a top notch benefits package that addresses the necessities of life now and down the road, and distributing significant amounts of additional compensation if our revenues exceed our expenses during a given year. I’ve added this last paragraph simply to show that we take the matter seriously and, by God’s grace, have been aggressive in trying to meet the needs of those who serve Christ here. Nobody is getting rich here, at least not in this world. God is graciously taking care of His servants and we are full of thanksgiving for that.
DMD
Here’s an excellent private (Catholic) school in my community
http://www.providenceacademy.org/
Here’s the tuition for 9-12: $15,855
This school has:
The tuition for 1-12 = $ 3415.
You can probably guess which school I think provides a better overall education. Which one has a better business model?
http://www.providenceacademy.org/
Here’s the tuition for 9-12: $15,855
This school has:
- Excellent facilities
- A growing enrollment
- Well paid teachers
The tuition for 1-12 = $ 3415.
You can probably guess which school I think provides a better overall education. Which one has a better business model?
[Jim Peet] Here’s an excellent private (Catholic) school in my communityHow do you know how much the teachers are paid? Is that public information?
http://www.providenceacademy.org/
Here’s the tuition for 9-12: $15,855
This school has:Here’s a Baptist school in the Twin Cities: http://www.fbsrosemount.org/index.php
- Excellent facilities
- A growing enrollment
- Well paid teachers
The tuition for 1-12 = $ 3415.
You can probably guess which school I think provides a better overall education. Which one has a better business model?
I was part of an audit of a high end private institution ($15K-$20K tuition) and you’d be surprised how much lower they paid their teachers than their public school counterparts. Are they being paid better than the Baptist Chritian School teachers? Probably, but not as much as you think.
Let me ask you a question, have you or would you pay $15K year for your child’s education?
Just for the record, BJU has aggressively worked toward the goal of raising salaries over the last five years. They have also trimmed and streamlined their majors for maximum efficiency. In addition to TRACS they are applying for regional accreditation. Yes, they have had to let go many employees during the same time, some of whom are their most bitter accusers. I guess they really liked those “low paying” jobs after all as compared to no job.
I have run a Christian school for 27 years and worked in a Christian school for 6 years. I know the challenges inside and out. My first assignment in ministry paid me 12,000 dollars a year as a full-time youth pastor and Bible teacher. We charge about 4000 dollars a year. We give discounts to our church members of 13% because they annually contribute 250,000 dollars a year in the church offerings to help run our school. We also give the same amount to missions each year. We give multiple child discounts and our stated price includes books, all fees, school camp, school trips, and all extra-curricular events. It is a one price charge with no surprises, hidden costs, no “gotcha” fees, and no school-wide fund-raisers. Most of my teachers have been with me for decades. They are not leaving and they love teaching here. Most own their own homes and have put their children through college. My wife also has taught in our school for 25 years.
Anyone can gripe about the problems and those problems related to CE are extremely difficult to solve. Griping takes zero brains, talent, or leadership. We can’t fund our programs and pensions like the government by endlessly printing paper money and going 16 TRILLION dollars into debt in order to fund the outrageous salaries and pensions that the MEA and other government unions have extorted out the American tax payer over the last 50 years. We actually have to pay our bills, on time, and balance budgets. Unless you can suggest practical, realistic solutions and actually have the courage to take the leadership of a ministry and implement them, I suggest you take a quiet seat in the back of the room.
I have run a Christian school for 27 years and worked in a Christian school for 6 years. I know the challenges inside and out. My first assignment in ministry paid me 12,000 dollars a year as a full-time youth pastor and Bible teacher. We charge about 4000 dollars a year. We give discounts to our church members of 13% because they annually contribute 250,000 dollars a year in the church offerings to help run our school. We also give the same amount to missions each year. We give multiple child discounts and our stated price includes books, all fees, school camp, school trips, and all extra-curricular events. It is a one price charge with no surprises, hidden costs, no “gotcha” fees, and no school-wide fund-raisers. Most of my teachers have been with me for decades. They are not leaving and they love teaching here. Most own their own homes and have put their children through college. My wife also has taught in our school for 25 years.
Anyone can gripe about the problems and those problems related to CE are extremely difficult to solve. Griping takes zero brains, talent, or leadership. We can’t fund our programs and pensions like the government by endlessly printing paper money and going 16 TRILLION dollars into debt in order to fund the outrageous salaries and pensions that the MEA and other government unions have extorted out the American tax payer over the last 50 years. We actually have to pay our bills, on time, and balance budgets. Unless you can suggest practical, realistic solutions and actually have the courage to take the leadership of a ministry and implement them, I suggest you take a quiet seat in the back of the room.
Pastor Mike Harding
What I am trying to do is to describe the attitude that leads highly talented and educated people to settle for salaries that the carnally-minded see as laughable…As with any living organism, the healthy function of a church or ministry requires a certain amount of symbiosis. It is important that ministers, who Scripturally are required to provide for their families to even be qualified to man such positions, receive adequate pay for their labors. But if they see a need and are willing to make some sacrifices in order to prosper the endeavor in question for the long term, then that is certainly a legitimate and honorable decision, and we do not need to pity them.
…I also understand the responsibility that an institution bears toward such self-sacrificing people. Precisely because they can be taken advantage of so easily, they are a sacred trust. God will hold the institution and its leaders responsible for their treatment. My sympathies are with every administrator who struggles with decisions about raising salaries versus meeting other institutional concerns. Professors are not well served if they receive higher compensation (which they surely deserve) for a year, only to see their institution close its doors.
My concern is that the Biblical qualifications of leadership don’t get completely tossed out the window in the name of ‘sacrificing for the ministry’. One’s house must remain in order, and that involves a healthy family dynamic, with spouses meeting each other’s needs first, and the needs of their children- physically, intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually- as well as being credible in their financial status.
[Barry L] How do you know how much the teachers are paid? Is that public information?
…..
Let me ask you a question, have you or would you pay $15K year for your child’s education?
- I don’t have vast knowlege of the CDS landscape but I have knowlege about a number of Church-sponsored CDSs in Minnesota (see my earlier post)
- Your question is pointed and a bit too personal! My children are adults and we have been empty nesters for over 10 years. But I would not subject my child to an inferior education. The real question is … will people pay good money for a quality education?
“…and what I disagree with you about is mainly the accusatory tone and careless generalizations.” —Dave Doran
Interesting that you would make this statement and then follow it by the admission that you do not know my situation. Would it then have not been prudent to avoid making your own accusations and careless generalizations?
What I am being told—and I have heard it told for all of my years in Christian education, is that the situation of adequate teacher pay is so complicated that I as a lowly teacher cannot possibly understand its intricacies and all the efforts that pastors and administrators have put into resolving the issue. That because I am just a teacher, it is beyond both my ability and my purview to grasp, and therefore any input from me is automatically classified as “accusatory” or “careless generalizations.” You underestimate how much of the reality is plainly evident and painfully exposed to those of my lowly stature. Our experiences always skew our perspectives; yours no less than mine I might add.
My generalizations are generalizations because it is not prudent to name specific schools, pastors, and administrators. However, they are by no means careless or accusatory. I have witnessed too much to buy your personal assessment of them.
There are undoubtedly ministries, pastors, and administrators that address these issues with far greater honesty, integrity, and success and I would not for a second include them in my generalizations.
The issues of low teacher pay in Christian schools are too widespread *as the norm* for me to believe that the issues are being or have ever been adequately addressed—not when teacher pay in Christian schools K-12 is unquestionably poverty level—as the norm. They perhaps are being addressed as you said they are in your ministry, {and I commend you for looking after your teaching staff.}, but that is likely more the exception than the rule.
As to “Silver Bullet” solutions to the problem—oh, Dr. Doran it is way too late for that. Most of Christian education as we have known it over the past 30 years has already lost its educational credibility. Too many schools have closed their doors, and many more cannot in all honesty justify their continued existence they are so far from the goals of Christian Education. More need to close their doors rather than continue charging tuition for a product they know they can no longer deliver.
You deserve to be commended for your efforts to pay your staff well. No true servant of Christ would have a goal of getting rich; neither was such a thing my goal. My hope was to be able to pay my son’s way through college as my parents did for me. When I could not do that, and saw that most of those I worked for in ministry COULD do it for their kids … that is when the inequity was driven home. As a teacher with a graduate degree in education after 26 years, I made approximately minimum wage and probably half of what our church youth pastor was paid. Slice that any way you want and it comes out wrong.
Interesting that you would make this statement and then follow it by the admission that you do not know my situation. Would it then have not been prudent to avoid making your own accusations and careless generalizations?
What I am being told—and I have heard it told for all of my years in Christian education, is that the situation of adequate teacher pay is so complicated that I as a lowly teacher cannot possibly understand its intricacies and all the efforts that pastors and administrators have put into resolving the issue. That because I am just a teacher, it is beyond both my ability and my purview to grasp, and therefore any input from me is automatically classified as “accusatory” or “careless generalizations.” You underestimate how much of the reality is plainly evident and painfully exposed to those of my lowly stature. Our experiences always skew our perspectives; yours no less than mine I might add.
My generalizations are generalizations because it is not prudent to name specific schools, pastors, and administrators. However, they are by no means careless or accusatory. I have witnessed too much to buy your personal assessment of them.
There are undoubtedly ministries, pastors, and administrators that address these issues with far greater honesty, integrity, and success and I would not for a second include them in my generalizations.
The issues of low teacher pay in Christian schools are too widespread *as the norm* for me to believe that the issues are being or have ever been adequately addressed—not when teacher pay in Christian schools K-12 is unquestionably poverty level—as the norm. They perhaps are being addressed as you said they are in your ministry, {and I commend you for looking after your teaching staff.}, but that is likely more the exception than the rule.
As to “Silver Bullet” solutions to the problem—oh, Dr. Doran it is way too late for that. Most of Christian education as we have known it over the past 30 years has already lost its educational credibility. Too many schools have closed their doors, and many more cannot in all honesty justify their continued existence they are so far from the goals of Christian Education. More need to close their doors rather than continue charging tuition for a product they know they can no longer deliver.
You deserve to be commended for your efforts to pay your staff well. No true servant of Christ would have a goal of getting rich; neither was such a thing my goal. My hope was to be able to pay my son’s way through college as my parents did for me. When I could not do that, and saw that most of those I worked for in ministry COULD do it for their kids … that is when the inequity was driven home. As a teacher with a graduate degree in education after 26 years, I made approximately minimum wage and probably half of what our church youth pastor was paid. Slice that any way you want and it comes out wrong.
TBD
“It’s easy to say … you ought to pay me an adequate salary. But the flip side is that YOU are worthy of your own hire. I was an underpaid pastor for a number of years. My wife worked and the ends were met. But the trend line in my case is that I was not likely be paid a salary. I went out and got a job in IT.” -Mr Peet
Yes—I have many of those thoughts now. Perhaps I should have foreseen the end results of my decision to become a Christian school teacher—my Dad did warn me that I might get to this point and find myself wishing I had done otherwise after investing my life into it and having nothing to show for it. Lest I be accused of carnality here, I know that the Lord knew my heart and will reward me in heaven. But what about the needs here and now. I see many pastors and administrators at the same stage in life retiring comfortably, but I cannot. I have to pray and work that God will supply now what I never made enough to provide for … retirement for my wife and me. That when we die, we will not leave behind a bunch of bills for our children to pay off. You can accuse me all you want that I handled my finances unwisely, but that is not the case.
If I did anything unwise, then it was in not seeing the trend of the pay in Christian education for what it really was—in spite of all the promises we were made of future improvement on that issue. Perhaps I should have seen it—others did—and got out and got different jobs that would enable them to take care of their families.
God helping me, I am taking action now to rectify what looks like a lifetime of having been lied by those whom I worked for.
Yes—I have many of those thoughts now. Perhaps I should have foreseen the end results of my decision to become a Christian school teacher—my Dad did warn me that I might get to this point and find myself wishing I had done otherwise after investing my life into it and having nothing to show for it. Lest I be accused of carnality here, I know that the Lord knew my heart and will reward me in heaven. But what about the needs here and now. I see many pastors and administrators at the same stage in life retiring comfortably, but I cannot. I have to pray and work that God will supply now what I never made enough to provide for … retirement for my wife and me. That when we die, we will not leave behind a bunch of bills for our children to pay off. You can accuse me all you want that I handled my finances unwisely, but that is not the case.
If I did anything unwise, then it was in not seeing the trend of the pay in Christian education for what it really was—in spite of all the promises we were made of future improvement on that issue. Perhaps I should have seen it—others did—and got out and got different jobs that would enable them to take care of their families.
God helping me, I am taking action now to rectify what looks like a lifetime of having been lied by those whom I worked for.
TBD
I guess the few that can afford it, would. Most can’t afford $15K a year for tuition. The same diocese in MN has these lower cost schools as well. Their tuition falls in line with Baptist schools.
http://www.carondeletcatholicschool.com/tuition_financial_aid.aspx
http://www.ascensionschoolmn.org/enrollment.html
http://www.sainthelena.us/school/about/index.htm
http://www.btcsmn.org/admissions/tuition.htm
http://www.carondeletcatholicschool.com/tuition_financial_aid.aspx
http://www.ascensionschoolmn.org/enrollment.html
http://www.sainthelena.us/school/about/index.htm
http://www.btcsmn.org/admissions/tuition.htm
“Unless you can suggest practical, realistic solutions and actually have the courage to take the leadership of a ministry and implement them, I suggest you take a quiet seat in the back of the room.” -Pastor Mike Harding
I am not sure if Pastor Harding is addressing me here as a suspected “Disaffected BJU Alumnus.” I do not recall ever mentioning BJU in my posts though the discussion thread undoubtedly deals with that. I do not think the issue of pay is unique to BJU. I was not specifically addressing the situation with BJU as I personally doubt the credibility of the numbers their critics have put forward about the salary issue. I was addressing the pay issue as one endemic to most of Christian Education.
I think I do find highly offensive his suggestion that unless I am a leader and capable of implementing a workable plan of resolving the issues I have mentioned, then I should just shut up and take a seat in the back of the room. That is the same old story of a leader relegating an underlings objections on an issue as irrelevant. Minimize the issue. Shut up and be quiet. I guess he put me in my place and told me where to get off the bus. Since I am not a leader, then I have nothing of value to say. Nice one, Mike. Was that a Christ-like response?
If I have misread your intent, I apologize. There are no seats in the back of the room, so I will continue to stand any way I can.
I am not sure if Pastor Harding is addressing me here as a suspected “Disaffected BJU Alumnus.” I do not recall ever mentioning BJU in my posts though the discussion thread undoubtedly deals with that. I do not think the issue of pay is unique to BJU. I was not specifically addressing the situation with BJU as I personally doubt the credibility of the numbers their critics have put forward about the salary issue. I was addressing the pay issue as one endemic to most of Christian Education.
I think I do find highly offensive his suggestion that unless I am a leader and capable of implementing a workable plan of resolving the issues I have mentioned, then I should just shut up and take a seat in the back of the room. That is the same old story of a leader relegating an underlings objections on an issue as irrelevant. Minimize the issue. Shut up and be quiet. I guess he put me in my place and told me where to get off the bus. Since I am not a leader, then I have nothing of value to say. Nice one, Mike. Was that a Christ-like response?
If I have misread your intent, I apologize. There are no seats in the back of the room, so I will continue to stand any way I can.
TBD
Dear Brother,
As I look back at my previous response to you, it was not a good response.
I was trying to make this point - “Giving away the product”
What I am not saying:
As I look back at my previous response to you, it was not a good response.
I was trying to make this point - “Giving away the product”
What I am not saying:
- That a Catholic school is better than a Baptist (you did not infer that I meant that but I just want to make myself clear to all!)
- That the second school mentioned was some how an inferior eduction. I didn’t say that either but I just want to make that clear
- I’m not saying that $ 15,000 tuition would be considered affordable to me.
- Quality education costs money: Property, building, facilities (technology, labs, etc), salaries, etc
- Not all education is the same quality. (I about posted a picture and link of the pitiful case I mentioned earlier but I will spare that organization (a Baptist school-church) the embarrassment)
- Parents will pay more for a quality education
- Many CDSs are “on the cheap”.
- Pastors and CDS administrators need to formulate a business model that provides a superior education to the public school AND pays their employees an adequate salary!
- If they cannot do that, they need to reevaluate whether they should be in the CDS business
@Mr. Peet:
Your post was well stated and is concise. Christian education has been “on the cheap” for far too long, which is exactly why so many schools have closed and many more should. Not only have they cut corners on teacher pay, but in terms of facilities and programs and the funding to maintain those programs into future years. Science is my field. A science department must have adequate funding either through tuition or science lab fees to enable it to obtain both durable and consumable supplies. There is no shortcut for safety equipment. These are not one time expenses, but have to be given thought for long term maintenance and future growth and improvements. The Internet now provides a viable option for virtual lab activities—a real advantage for smaller schools without a science lab. The added bonus to a virtual lab is that students can actually blow up an experiment with no harm done. But so many schools don’t even allow Internet in their own computer labs let alone for regular classroom access.
All of that is not cheap. Schools that are interested in picking through the public school junk pile, outdated textbooks for free, and how well a teacher can make due with an antique spirit duplicator just won’t cut it in the educational arena for long. Parents don’t like that stuff anymore. They were tolerant of it 30 years ago when Christian schools were trying to get off the ground. Now, when Christian schools should be flying high with at least a competitive product (if not superior to public education), many of them flounder with mediocrity still trying and still promising to get off the ground, someday!
Your post was well stated and is concise. Christian education has been “on the cheap” for far too long, which is exactly why so many schools have closed and many more should. Not only have they cut corners on teacher pay, but in terms of facilities and programs and the funding to maintain those programs into future years. Science is my field. A science department must have adequate funding either through tuition or science lab fees to enable it to obtain both durable and consumable supplies. There is no shortcut for safety equipment. These are not one time expenses, but have to be given thought for long term maintenance and future growth and improvements. The Internet now provides a viable option for virtual lab activities—a real advantage for smaller schools without a science lab. The added bonus to a virtual lab is that students can actually blow up an experiment with no harm done. But so many schools don’t even allow Internet in their own computer labs let alone for regular classroom access.
All of that is not cheap. Schools that are interested in picking through the public school junk pile, outdated textbooks for free, and how well a teacher can make due with an antique spirit duplicator just won’t cut it in the educational arena for long. Parents don’t like that stuff anymore. They were tolerant of it 30 years ago when Christian schools were trying to get off the ground. Now, when Christian schools should be flying high with at least a competitive product (if not superior to public education), many of them flounder with mediocrity still trying and still promising to get off the ground, someday!
TBD
I am an unpaid pastor. I believe that is Biblically appropriate, as per the example and direct teaching of Paul. Our tiny church could not in any way pay me an appropriate salary, could not, in fact, pay me any salary right now. Zero.
No one, I hope, suggests that our church should cease to exist (leaving no sound church in town), just because of our financial inability to support a pastor. It is good, right, and God-honouring for me to willingly serve in this capacity.
If voluntary “no-pay” is Biblical and appropriate, it is extremely hard for me to see how voluntary “low-pay” is not. If it is appropriate for a church to exist when it cannot pay a pastor at all, it is hard for me to see how it is inappropriate for a school to exist when it cannot pay teachers well, and they voluntarily take a low-pay position.
This post is not intended to endorse real or apparent inequities between pastoral pay and teacher pay. It is not even to say that I believe Christian schools are necessarily the best way to teach one’s children. I believe a stronger Biblical case can be made for homeschooling than Christian schools, though I am not opposed to Christian schools. It is only to absolutely reject the idea, which has been suggested on this thread, that a school should not exist if it cannot pay teachers well.
No one, I hope, suggests that our church should cease to exist (leaving no sound church in town), just because of our financial inability to support a pastor. It is good, right, and God-honouring for me to willingly serve in this capacity.
If voluntary “no-pay” is Biblical and appropriate, it is extremely hard for me to see how voluntary “low-pay” is not. If it is appropriate for a church to exist when it cannot pay a pastor at all, it is hard for me to see how it is inappropriate for a school to exist when it cannot pay teachers well, and they voluntarily take a low-pay position.
This post is not intended to endorse real or apparent inequities between pastoral pay and teacher pay. It is not even to say that I believe Christian schools are necessarily the best way to teach one’s children. I believe a stronger Biblical case can be made for homeschooling than Christian schools, though I am not opposed to Christian schools. It is only to absolutely reject the idea, which has been suggested on this thread, that a school should not exist if it cannot pay teachers well.
I can pretty much ditto JG on this. I think part of the disconnect is what duties we believe should be required of pastors, teachers, seminary professors, etc… For instance, a pastor can fulfill his basic pastoral obligations (preaching and teaching) and still work a full-time job. But that means the church does not have 24/7 access to him, and that is often what a church either expects or wants. If they want a pastor that visits church families and visitors, can show up at 2am in the emergency room, do weddings, funerals, organize special meetings, and be able to spend hours counseling troubled families, then they must pay him in accordance with their ‘demands’ of time and energy, or have multiple elders sharing the work. Pastors must be able to attend to the needs of their families first. If the church wants a bigger piece of him, then I believe they must ‘pay’ for it.
On the other hand, I think it unreasonable to expect someone to be a teacher at a CDS- which I would assume means being physically present at the school from 7 or 8am until 3pm- and then work a second job to adequately provide for their family. If you can’t do it well, don’t do it at all. It’s the kids/guinea pigs who reap the consequences of all the dithering about trying to slap together something that looks like it works on the surface but underneath is a complete disaster. Someone please save me from basketball coaches who some how end up teaching science.
As for seminary- which I believe should be a separate function of ‘higher education’ than other vocations- the best case scenario, IMO, is for young men to be mentored and taught by those who know them personally and can ‘lay hands’ on them with the full assurance that they are well-suited to and qualified for ministry. Far too many seminaries and Bible colleges hand out diplomas to guys who can pass the classes, but have the spiritual maturity of coleslaw. Since no one really knows them, they can candidate for churches, who accept the diploma as some kind of evidence as to who this person is, and if the guy can schmooze, the church may end up with a pastor who is a wolf or a hireling. I have many questions and doubts about the viability of the seminary as the primary training ground for pastors and missionaries, so the talk of salaries for seminary professors makes my knees itch.
University is quite another matter entirely. One expects a university to be staffed by people who have spent years studying and perfecting their expertise in an area, and when you pay for an expert, you want to actually get an expert. It is not unreasonable for an expert to expect or require adequate pay for their skills. Or when you need a heart cath, do you choose the lowest bidder?
On the other hand, I think it unreasonable to expect someone to be a teacher at a CDS- which I would assume means being physically present at the school from 7 or 8am until 3pm- and then work a second job to adequately provide for their family. If you can’t do it well, don’t do it at all. It’s the kids/guinea pigs who reap the consequences of all the dithering about trying to slap together something that looks like it works on the surface but underneath is a complete disaster. Someone please save me from basketball coaches who some how end up teaching science.
As for seminary- which I believe should be a separate function of ‘higher education’ than other vocations- the best case scenario, IMO, is for young men to be mentored and taught by those who know them personally and can ‘lay hands’ on them with the full assurance that they are well-suited to and qualified for ministry. Far too many seminaries and Bible colleges hand out diplomas to guys who can pass the classes, but have the spiritual maturity of coleslaw. Since no one really knows them, they can candidate for churches, who accept the diploma as some kind of evidence as to who this person is, and if the guy can schmooze, the church may end up with a pastor who is a wolf or a hireling. I have many questions and doubts about the viability of the seminary as the primary training ground for pastors and missionaries, so the talk of salaries for seminary professors makes my knees itch.
University is quite another matter entirely. One expects a university to be staffed by people who have spent years studying and perfecting their expertise in an area, and when you pay for an expert, you want to actually get an expert. It is not unreasonable for an expert to expect or require adequate pay for their skills. Or when you need a heart cath, do you choose the lowest bidder?
[JG] It is only to absolutely reject the idea, which has been suggested on this thread, that a school should not exist if it cannot pay teachers well.I looked back through this thread and I was’t sure where you got the idea or who you thought suggested that a school should not exist is the teachers are not well paid.
I did suggest “adequate” pay.
Thanks
–– Solutions to CDS pay crisis ––
- Consolidation and merger of smaller schools into regional schools
- Back office efficiencies using web-based headmaster systems
- Raising tuitions
- Engage alumni network to raise scholarship funds
If a corporation such as Microsoft was under scrutiny for its hiring and employment practices, and a spokesman for Microsoft were to address the issues as follows, what would happen?
“Unless you can suggest practical, realistic solutions and actually have the courage to take the leadership of a [corporation] and implement them, I suggest you take a quiet seat in the back of the room.”
I suspect that we would recognize this means “shut up,” and we would be angrier than at the beginning. Shame on you, Mike Harding.
“Unless you can suggest practical, realistic solutions and actually have the courage to take the leadership of a [corporation] and implement them, I suggest you take a quiet seat in the back of the room.”
I suspect that we would recognize this means “shut up,” and we would be angrier than at the beginning. Shame on you, Mike Harding.
My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com
Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin
Discussion