Fundamentalism: Whence? Where? Whither? Part 5

NickOfTime

Fundamentalism and Sentimentalism

Read Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, and Part 4.

The evangelical mixture from which Fundamentalism developed made serious concessions to populism. Charles Finney took those concessions to an extreme by patterning the inner ministry of the church after the worlds of commerce, politics, and entertainment. Finney made these adaptations at the precise moment when popular culture was coming into existence. The result was that the predecessors of Fundamentalism invested heavily in adapting their Christianity to popular culture. Fundamentalism inherited this link with popular culture and has perpetuated it rather consistently through the years.

Popular culture came into its own during the Victorian-Edwardian era.1 It provided a channel through which Victorian influences began to affect the lived Christianity of most American evangelicals, and consequently of the Fundamentalists who came after them. While Fundamentalists have not been alone in attempting to assimilate popular culture into Christianity, they have been among the foremost.

One of the main characteristics of Victorian popular culture was its sentimentalism. Victorians did not invent sentimentalism, but they made it a significant aspect of their mental and emotional furniture. As the predecessors of Fundamentalism absorbed Victorian popular culture, they imported its sentimentalism into their Christianity.2

Sentimentalism is more than simple overindulgence in emotion. It is a combination of two factors. First, it attaches the wrong degree or kind of emotion to an object. Second, it pursues emotion for the sake of the emotion itself.

Historically, Christians understood each object or activity to merit a certain emotional response (an ordinate affection). To feel more strongly toward a thing than it merited was considered sentimental; to feel less strongly was considered brutal. Alternatively, to direct toward one thing a feeling that rightly belonged to another was also either sentimental or brutal, depending upon the quality of the feeling and its harmony with the object.

Sentimental people mismatch feelings to objects by incorrectly perceiving the value of the objects themselves. They smooth out or eliminate the complicated nature of being and feeling. Consequently, the feelings themselves are sweetened or otherwise imbalanced.3

Dickens is a good illustration of sentimentalism. His characters tend to be one-dimensional stereotypes. Feelings aroused by those characters are clichéd and, from a later perspective, simply corny. For example, little Nell in The Old Curiosity Shop is such an impossibly sweet character that it is ridiculous to think of her as human at all. She is more like a porcelain doll. When Nell dies, the reader is supposed to be overcome with pathos. A person who understands what real thirteen-year-olds are like, however, is more likely to be overcome with the humor of the situation. Dickens attempted to evoke a sense of sorrow that far outweighed the value of Nell’s character.4

Nell was one of Dickens’s most popular characters. Why? Because sentimentalism is more concerned with the experience of the emotion than with its object. Dickens’s readers really wanted to feel the kind of bathetic sadness that he tried to evoke. Their clichéd grief, however, was very different from the misery that one experiences at the grave of a real girl. It was a feeling that people could relish. They could and did wallow in it. Their faux sorrow existed for its own sake, not for the sake of the plastic character toward whom it was directed.

A sentimental person is more interested in the feeling than in the object. The feeling must be quickly aroused and predictable. The words stereotype and cliché really are applicable to the process that occurs.

Because sentimentalism exists for the sake of the emotion, the focus naturally turns toward the individual who feels the emotion. As sentimentalism develops, it focuses less and less upon the object of sentiment, and more and more upon the quality of the sentiment itself. A sentimental song cannot say why a boy loves a girl. All it can say is how very, very, very much he loves her. As people become more sentimental they become more and more occupied with their own inner states, eventually resulting in profound self-absorption.

The consequences of sentimentalism for Christianity were profound. For example, sentimentalism changed the very categories in which unconditional election and efficacious calling were debated. Previous generations had resorted mainly to arguments about the nature of freedom (this approach can be found as late as Finney). The new sentimentalism, however, completely changed the way that people saw God. God was no longer complicated. He was no longer terrible in His holiness. He was not a God who hid Himself or who left His children weeping in perplexity.5 Rather, His fundamental attribute became niceness. God was now thought to be the quintessence of fair-mindedness. Such a God would never barge into an unresponsive heart. Furthermore, His niceness and even-handedness required Him to do everything that He could possibly do for every single sinner. It was unthinkable that God might do more for some (call them the “elect”) than He might do for others.6

Salvation was also sentimentalized. The unsaved were no longer regarded as rebels, lawbreakers, and criminals. They were now seen as poor, lost, lonely wanderers who needed to be shown the way home. The problem with sin was no longer that it scandalized justice and offended moral sense, but that it left the sinner weary, empty, and sad. The question became, “Are you weary? Are you heavy-hearted?” The invitation to salvation was no longer to repent, but to “Come home, come home, ye who are weary come home.” And, of course, the response was, “I’ve wandered far away from God. Now I’m coming home.”

Eternity was sentimentalized. Christians used to think of heavenly places primarily as the throne of God and Christ: “The Prince is ever in them.” Faced with the wonder of their eternal home, the faithful had exclaimed, “Beneath thy contemplation sink heart and voice oppressed!” Such a complicated view of eternity had to be flattened out. Heaven was transformed into a kind of church picnic in which a big family reunion would take place. The redeemed could now express their expectation of a spiritual romp to the rollicking, “Oh that will be glory for me, glory for me, glory for me.”

Even the Lord Jesus was transformed by the sentimentalism of the age. No longer was He viewed primarily as the transcendent sovereign who was coming to judge the quick and the dead. He was now seen primarily as a friend (oh, such a friend).7 This shift probably grew from a desire to emphasize intimacy with Christ, but it resulted in two gross misapprehensions of spiritual closeness. On the one hand, Christ was envisioned more and more as buddy or chum, and spiritual intimacy gave way to mere familiarity. On the other hand, a growing body of expression began to envision Jesus as a kind of spiritual boyfriend and to speak of intimacy in terms of romantic love. People came to the garden alone while the dew was still on the roses in order to meet the Son of God in a parody of a lover’s tryst. From a later perspective, such expressions seem scandalously comical. At the time, however, there were plenty of people whose vision of spirituality was significantly shaped by such stereotyped clichés.8

Finally, under the influence of sentimentalism the role of the individual changed. Expressions of piety became more subjective and self-focused. The perfections of God and the splendor of His plan were pushed to the side as the emotional experience and expression of the worshipper assumed center stage.

These were the influences that Fundamentalism inherited.9 They are the same influences that continue to affect the movement. The shape of sentimentalism has changed, but Fundamentalists in general have either tried to adapt to its latest expressions or else to perpetuate the older expressions as if they were somehow the faith itself.

The past three essays have attempted to define the intellectual and cultural location of Fundamentalism. They have expounded three influences that shaped the evangelical movement out of which Fundamentalism emerged. Those influences were Common Sense Realism, populism, and sentimentalism. All three influences were detrimental, and all three continue to affect the Fundamentalist movement.

To understand Fundamentalism better, we next need to discuss the theological environment out of which it developed. Before that discussion can take place, however, a few loose ends need to be tied up. To do that, I want to go back and to answer certain nagging questions about the matters we have been discussing. In other words, it is time for a digression.


1 The Victorian era properly ends with the death of Queen Victoria in 1901. Victorian sensibilities continued to remain influential throughout the Edwardian period, which is typically extended past the death of Edward VII to the end of the Great War. During the Edwardian period, however, a transition was taking place that would produce the Jazz Age following the World War.

2 Victorian sentimentalism is one of the commonplaces of literary and historical discussion. Recently, however, it has come in for a good bit of scholarly examination. One of the more influential recent volumes in Victorian sentimentalism is Fred Kaplan, Sacred Tears: Sentimentality in Victorian Literature (Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 1987). Another influential discussion occurs in Murray Roston, Victorian Contexts: Literature and the Visual Arts (New York: New York University Press, 1996). Recent interaction with both of these authors is provided by Suzy Anger, Knowing the Past: Victorian Literature and Culture (Ithaca, N.Y.: Cornell University Press).

3 A brief but helpful discussion of sentimentalism can be found under the heading “Sentimentality” in Karl Beckson and Arthur Ganz, Literary Terms: A Dictionary (New York: Farrar, Strous and Giroux, 1975), 228-229. See also Thomas Winter, “Sentimentality” in Bret E. Carroll, ed., American Masculinities: A Historical Encyclopedia (New York: Moschovitis Group, 2003), 414-416.

4 For a thorough treatment of Dickens, see George H. Ford, Dickens and His Readers (Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 1955) or, more recently, Mary Lenard, Preaching Pity: Dickens, Gaskell, and Sentimentalism in Victorian Culture (Studies in Nineteenth-Century British Literature, Vol. 11) (New York: Peter Lang Publishing Group, 1999).

5 Psalm 88.

6 My point is not to argue for either side in the debate. It is simply to note the shift in the kinds of arguments that seemed plausible to Christian people. Sentimental arguments about what God’s love or fairness obligate Him to do would have been met with incredulity from both sides a few generations earlier.

7 It is noteworthy that in Scripture, we are never told to address Jesus individually as a friend, though His enemies accused Him of being the friend of publicans and sinners. He names us as His friends, but that is a very different matter. The shift to “friend” language as a norm for defining one’s relationship with Christ represents a very marked downgrading of esteem for Him.

8 There is a legitimate use of marriage imagery to depict the relationship between God and the soul or Christ and the church. Also, Christians have sometimes employed sexual imagery to explain the simultaneous longing and self-forgetfulness of spiritual intimacy, together with the awful nakedness of the soul before God. All of this is miles away from the “Jesus is my boyfriend” sentimentalism of the Victorian period.

9 Daryl Hart, “When Is a Fundamentalist a Modernist? J. Gresham Machen, Cultural Modernism, and Conservative Protestantism,” Journal of the American Academy of Religion 65:3 (Autumn 1997), 605-633.

The Recovery

Thomas Traherne (1636-1674)

Sin! wilt thou vanquish me?
And shall I yield the victory?
Shall all my joys be spoil’d,
And pleasures soil’d
By thee?
Shall I remain
As one that’s slain
And never more lift up the head?
Is not my Saviour dead?
His blood, thy bane, my balsam, bliss, joy, wine,
Shall thee destroy; heal, feed, make me divine.


This essay is by Dr. Kevin T. Bauder, president of Central Baptist Theological Seminary (Plymouth, MN). Not every professor, student, or alumnus of Central Seminary necessarily agrees with every opinion that it expresses.

Discussion

Just to interject on the “glory for me” comments.

1) I think some people may be interpreting that phrase in a sinister way. “Glory for me” does not mean “glory unto me.” The word “for” can mean “in the estimation of.” For example, “For Luther, to deny the bodily presence of Christ in the Eucharist was to call Jesus a liar.” The phrase “for Luther” there means, “In the estimation of Luther” or “in Luther’s view.” (BTW, this construction comes from both Greek and Latin, which employ the “ethical dative.”) So, the song “O That Will Be Glory” can be charitably and reasonably interpreted as saying, “When by His grace I shall look on His face, I will view that as glorious.”

2) Even that being said, Bauder has a point that the song does focus on the individual’s sense of glory, rather than what is objectively glorious. What makes heaven glorious (or more accurately, what makes me feel that heaven is glorious) is rather vague - “just to be near the dear Lord,” “just a smile from my Savior.” These things aren’t evil, but it doesn’t really paint the same picture that you find in Revelation, which is why Bauder calls it sentimental. For Bauder, (yes, the ethical dative again) the emotion of the song is misdirected.

My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com

Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin

FWIW, I would not disagree with Charlie’s last post.

Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN

[Silverghost] We are told: “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” There will be glory. The verse before in Rom. 8, tells us that we can be “joint-heirs with Christ.” That’s mind boggling to me.
And it is for me, too, SG.

As well, these words by Jesus in his prayer are stunning - “And the glory which thou gave me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one.”

Wow. We need to meditate more and more on the precious reality of our union with God. It makes me want to sing and soar. Again, I wonder what fundamental themes the early patristic fathers dwelt upon.

But at the same time, the devil is right there in our midst, seeking to blur the distinction of the derivative glory experienced by the creature in comparison to the glory of the eternal, triune God. Major theological battles in 2009 cause us to scrutinize just what we are singing. The motto, Sola Dei Gloria, does help us from becoming sentimental saps.

[And speaking of glory, you are all invited to the “Behold My Glory” (John 17:24) Conference in Idaho Falls, Idaho, January 29-31, 2010. I make a shameless plug for this. :) ]

Romans 8 formed the context for our use of the song recently at our church.

There, Paul points out that our adoption means that we are indeed destined for glory… ourselves. The phrase is “the glory which shall be revealed in us.” (8:18) In fact all creation is yearning with great longing for the “reveling of the songs of God” (v.19)… groaning with anticipation (and birth pangs) for the moment when it will be delivered into the “glorious liberty of the children of God” … a moment apparently synonymous with the “redemption of our body” (8:23)

So we are encouraged there to ponder our sharing in glory as God intends to give that to us because of His grace. That’s one reason for singing “glory for me” with zeal. It’s doctrinally correct. A second reason has to do with personal context. When you are in the midst of discouraging circumstances, perhaps persecution, loss as a result of godly choices, etc. Part of being faithful is pointing our attention to the future glory… our own.

This is the point of Romans 8:18 (part of the point, anyway).

Where this speaks to sentimentalism is that many of the sentimental songs take on quite a different character when they are the soul’s answer to the discouraging and chilling forces of the world, the flesh and the devil. For many, they are how they turn their hearts away from the urge to “faint” and toward the resolve to carry on. It’s not that these songs are “right because they work” but rather they work because they are right in the way some use them.

On emotional reactions, etc.

SG, Bauder is not arguing here against “emotional reaction” but against emotion as the goal… goal of songs, worship, teaching etc. That’s sentimentalism. Feeling for feeling’s sake. And my (possible) disagreement with his view is not on that point. Rather, when he begins to apply the principles he has asserted (principles I buy completely), I begin to think they are being applied too expansively—sounding like “we need to get rid of all these songs as well as anything else that smacks even a little of sentimentalism.” We do need to get rid of some songs! We need to be more cautious in the use of quite a few more, both from the “second great awakening” era and our present times (characterized by more sentimentalism than ever).

But the lines get very fine between sentimentalism and the sincere heartfelt longings of a person of simple faith. And I’m not going to give my parents’ generation (and far less, their parents’ generation) grief about what seems to foster ordinate affections in them, though the material itself is sentimental in character. (I’ll draw some lines where the doctrine gets clearly bad though!)

Edit: just saw that someone already made at least part of my point from Rom.8. Sorry for the redundancy there.

Edit: FWIW… musically, I hate the song Glory for Me! Sounds like roller skating music.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

[Aaron Blumer] SNIP

Edit: FWIW… musically, I hate the song Glory for Me! Sounds like roller skating music.
I believe the song you’re thinking of is Make Me A Blessing.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

[Aaron Blumer] FWIW… musically, I hate the song Glory for Me! Sounds like roller skating music.
Indeed, to me, that is part of the problem. The skating-rink rhythm contributes significantly to the overall feel of the song. Also, the combination of the words and music really emphasizes the repeated “me” and thus the focus on self.

Things That Matter

As the quantity of communication increases, so does its quality decline; and the most important sign of this is that it is no longer acceptable to say so.--RScruton

Thinking back to an article that Kevin wrote several years ago, I believe he is equally concerned with sappy music as he is with sentimental lyrics. His comments that several of the songs named in these posts are better suited for a calliope and in a roller skating rink are quite apt…and the cause for continuing mirth.

As for the early posts about overreacting v. legitimate conclusions, Douglas Wilson has an excellent article (“Triangles Don’t Have Outliers”) about generalizations and individualism over at Blog and Mablog.

What language shall I borrow to thank Thee, dearest friend,

For this Thy dying sorrow, Thy pity without end?

O make me Thine forever, and should I fainting be,

Lord, let me never, never outlive my love to Thee.

- Bernard of Clairvaux, 12th Century

(Translation: Paul Gerhardt, 16th Century)

Of course, there are marked differences from the later sentimentalism throughout Bernard’s masterpiece, but seeing Christ as “friend” is not one of them. Just to be clear: I’m not for the “chum” and “best bud” type sentimentalism either, but I’m illustrating just how fine these lines are. And I’m suggesting that the error of sentimentalism is mostly an error of excess.

Surely one important purpose of the incarnation was to give us a God who is immanent, approachable, and sympathetic rather than only transcendent and mysterious and terrifying.

True, the sentimentalism of recent years has almost erased awareness of the transcendent and terrifying reality of God entirely. But, again, an overcorrection also leads to error. We’re no better off if we neglect the warm and sympathetic realities of God incarnate.

Hebrews 4:15-16, Hebrews 2:17-18, Luke 7:37-38, Mark 10:13-14

Concluding that the second great awakening era was characterized by sentimentalism—and inordinate affections—is pretty easy. The business of testing our affections and determining whether they are ordinate or inordinate is not so easy… nor is evaluating individual songs or individuals singing them.

(As for “Glory for Me”… I said I hated the music. I did not declare it to be inappropriate. It’s jubilant and should be. And I think it’s jubilant in a way—musically—that many of the era would not find frivolous, though it sounds sappy to many of us today. It’s just out of fashion. But, yes, it is one of many of its kind from that period, when there were way too many of its kind)

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

I confess to being unable (at least on very limited time) to track completely with Dr. Bauder through the philosophical landscape of the last couple of articles. This one, however, definitely strikes a chord with me (no pun intended)!

As Bauder illustrates the dangers of sentimentalism particularly through the use of music (I will not call them hymns), it made me think immediately of my conservative Lutheran upbringing and the struggles I faced (and which sometimes continue) in transitioning into Baptist Fundamentalism. Believe me, the lyrics referenced here offer no comparison to the hymnody which I had to memorize (with absolute perfection) every Friday morning growing up in my Lutheran school.

Yet, unless you have been there you do not understand the frustration you feel when trying to explain to a Baptist brother that you legitimately miss some elements of the liturgical worship you were raised with — to say nothing of trying to explain to him that you actually believe (horrors!) some of those items to be more Biblical than their Baptist counterparts!

I am very thankful for people who formed a bridge for me into a world which I truly believe is more Biblical overall. I also wish that someone within “our camp” had been writing these things 20-plus years ago when I was struggling in my formative years.

While we are on the subject of sentimentalism, I will add one more illustration to Bauder’s list: “announcements.”

I have never figured out how they could possibly be construed to be a legitimate element of a “worship service.” In many churches they seem to serve more of a sentimental function than even a pragmatic one, and nothing could be more “self-focused.”

I never could understand why Baptists can’t read their bulletins, or why some churches go to the bother and expense of printing them.

Church Ministries Representative, serving in the Midwest, for The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry

This is another great post from Dr. Bauder! Thank you.

I do have a few considerations to add (although we have already had some great ones above).

Sentimentalism in evangelicalism and fundamentalism is obvious. The songs do, in fact, document the point. So do the remnants of churches focusing on revival and embracing a cure to all ills via decisions of various sorts. The “high pressure” approach is geared to affect the emotions in one manner, the eliciting of emotions via music another (as in many Pentecostal type churches, for example).

Personality type is a big issue here. Churches and entire movements specialize in drawing and repelling certain types: achievers, deep feelers, relational, and contemplatives. Eras of time exalt or cultures exalt one type or another as well. Being relational, I am “turned off” when someone tries to appeal to my emotions. I feel like others are attempting to manipulate me (salesmen don’t like me; neither do revivalists). In other eras/cutlures, the peer pressure is to allow one’s emotions to carry him/her along.

My background made the “Victorian Captivity” of evangelicalism/fundamentalism seem obvious. Unlike many of my peers, I was raised in a big city, and my grandparents came from eastern Europe. I was not raised with the Anglo-intense (or even German) viewpoints of so many who dominate the evangelical/fundamental world. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood, and was raised Roman Catholic.

When I became a born-again believer at age 17 (back in 1974), I found some of the songs in the hymnal downright embarrassing. I loved the Lord, but not in the romantic way portrayed in some of the songs. Between the old English of the KJV, quoting Charles Spurgeon right and left, and sermon illustrations about light gas lamps, it seemed obvious that these churches were trying to hang onto a bygone era. It was not hard to conclude that most fundamental/evangelical leaders seemed to consider the Victorian Era a “Golden Era,” long lost, but longed for.

Then the Christian patriotic movement came along and presented America as this great Christian nation that had forsaken God. Again, the Victorian Era (and earlier) was the standard. Forget the massacre of the Indians, stealing their lands, enslaving Africans, or stealing land from Mexico. We were this wonderful godly nation because we went to church and read our Bibles.

I do think that Dr. Bauder has some great insights. But we must not embrace the idea that we moved away from something “better” into Victorian sentimentalism. I would much rather have raised my children in 1885 America than 1675 Europe. I wonder if Dr. Bauder is creating a “Golden Era” during the Reformation period, a time in which most people decided whether to be Lutheran or Catholic based upon what county you lived in?

It is important to assert that Christianity has always existed with and (intentionally or unintentionally) melded with popular culture, philosophy, or even pagan religions. The Victorian Era was probably one of the better compromises, in some ways. But its paradigms certainly affected the church, every bit as much as modernism had and post-modernism is now affecting it.

"The Midrash Detective"

Thanks for that great post, Ed.

I agree with practically the whole thing but had a few quibbles or points of clarification.

Technically, and I believe Bauder was being technical, popular culture is a recent phenomenon, so in that sense Christianity has not always co-existed with popular culture. I see you point, though, and agree with it (if it’s simply to emphasize that Christianity has always existed in some specific culture).

I have also spoken against “golden era” nostalgia, and while I’m not sure Bauder has it, I agree with you that it is easy to see it as an assumption or implicit attitude in the way the articles are written. This is an inevitable problem with narrative: any narrative that includes descriptions of decline will imply that there was a move from something better to something worse, and this is so necessarily; the problem is how general this comparison is: the more general, the more inaccurate (as a rule) because normally goods that are exhibited in an culture co-exist with a specific and related set of evils, and when new goods are introduced to replace certain existing evil, new evils are often introduced, thus balancing out a sense that moving from good to bad necessarily implies anything about the relative superiority (in general) of one age over another.

Even if you’re not right about Bauder in this instance, I think you are definitely right when your insight is applied to a broader target. I see a lot of romanticing among Reformed folks especially, and I find it detestably unhistorical. They forget they either would have been killed or persecuted depending on where they lived, or they would have very likely supported the persecution and killing of other Christians who disagreed with them. Although I am a loud advocate for being historically informed in our judgments, I still find it hard to imagine Christianity co-existing with the easy killing and persecutions that charaterized early modern Europe (I just heard Eamon Duffy lecture last night on Reginald Pole and Thomas Cranmer, and was reminding how ceasily and strangely cruelty could co-exist with undoubtedly genuine piety).

[Joseph] Thanks for that great post, Ed.

I have also spoken against “golden era” nostalgia, and while I’m not sure Bauder has it, I agree with you that it is easy to see it as an assumption or implicit attitude in the way the articles are written. This is an inevitable problem with narrative: any narrative that includes descriptions of decline will imply that there was a move from something better to something worse, and this is so necessarily; the problem is how general this comparison is: the more general, the more inaccurate (as a rule) because normally goods that are exhibited in an culture co-exist with a specific and related set of evils, and when new goods are introduced to replace certain existing evil, new evils are often introduced, thus balancing out a sense that moving from good to bad necessarily implies anything about the relative superiority (in general) of one age over another. .
Thanks for your thoughts, and your tweaking my comments is both appreciated and probably correct. I am glad I am not the only one who views any past era as a “Golden Era,” except for Eden before the Fall!

"The Midrash Detective"

[Paul J. Scharf]

As Bauder illustrates the dangers of sentimentalism particularly through the use of music (I will not call them hymns), it made me think immediately of my conservative Lutheran upbringing and the struggles I faced (and which sometimes continue) in transitioning into Baptist Fundamentalism. Believe me, the lyrics referenced here offer no comparison to the hymnody which I had to memorize (with absolute perfection) every Friday morning growing up in my Lutheran school.

Yet, unless you have been there you do not understand the frustration you feel when trying to explain to a Baptist brother that you legitimately miss some elements of the liturgical worship you were raised with — to say nothing of trying to explain to him that you actually believe (horrors!) some of those items to be more Biblical than their Baptist counterparts!
Coming from a fundamental Methodist background, which had elements that were more liturgical in some areas (but different from Lutheranism being revivalistic in others), I understand a great deal of where you are coming from. Just like you, I have a hard time trying to get lifelong Baptists to understand the richness of some of what they are missing out on, but it’s like we are talking past one another. Ah well.

Dave Barnhart

[Greg Linscott]
[Silverghost] God has given to us the instructions to sing with the Holy Spirit’s empowering: “be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.” I consider this not giving us a mandate to make a distinction as to whether He has given me glory, or if I am glorifying God.
I’m not sure what the connection is you intend to make between the verse and the statement you make following it.
Dear Greg: It was in response to your making a distinction as to whether God has given me glory, or if I am glorifying God. I don’t see the Scriptures instructing us regarding which song is preferred. I presume that it is the liberty of the individual church to choose, just as it is to the frequency of the Lord’s table: “as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup…” I consider the making of a distinction regarding a celebration of glory given to us or of us giving of glory to God, to be much ado about nothing.

I lead the songs often, and select them in our Mission Church. It is according to what is effective, without this weight of distinction.

Open our eyes, Lord. Luke 24:31,32,45 KJV <·)}}}>< Silverghost °Ü°

[Aaron Blumer] Romans 8 formed the context for our use of the song recently at our church.

There, Paul points out that our adoption means that we are indeed destined for glory… ourselves. The phrase is “the glory which shall be revealed in us.” (8:18) In fact all creation is yearning with great longing for the “reveling of the songs of God” (v.19)… groaning with anticipation (and birth pangs) for the moment when it will be delivered into the “glorious liberty of the children of God” … a moment apparently synonymous with the “redemption of our body” (8:23)

So we are encouraged there to ponder our sharing in glory as God intends to give that to us because of His grace. That’s one reason for singing “glory for me” with zeal. It’s doctrinally correct. A second reason has to do with personal context. When you are in the midst of discouraging circumstances, perhaps persecution, loss as a result of godly choices, etc. Part of being faithful is pointing our attention to the future glory… our own. This is the point of Romans 8:18 (part of the point, anyway).

Where this speaks to sentimentalism is that many of the sentimental songs take on quite a different character when they are the soul’s answer to the discouraging and chilling forces of the world, the flesh and the devil. For many, they are how they turn their hearts away from the urge to “faint” and toward the resolve to carry on. It’s not that these songs are “right because they work” but rather they work because they are right in the way some use them.

On emotional reactions, etc.

SG, Bauder is not arguing here against “emotional reaction” but against emotion as the goal… goal of songs, worship, teaching etc. That’s sentimentalism. Feeling for feeling’s sake. And my (possible) disagreement with his view is not on that point. Rather, when he begins to apply the principles he has asserted (principles I buy completely), I begin to think they are being applied too expansively—sounding like “we need to get rid of all these songs as well as anything else that smacks even a little of sentimentalism.” We do need to get rid of some songs! We need to be more cautious in the use of quite a few more, both from the “second great awakening” era and our present times (characterized by more sentimentalism than ever).

But the lines get very fine between sentimentalism and the sincere heartfelt longings of a person of simple faith. And I’m not going to give my parents’ generation (and far less, their parents’ generation) grief about what seems to foster ordinate affections in them, though the material itself is sentimental in character. (I’ll draw some lines where the doctrine gets clearly bad though!)

Edit: just saw that someone already made at least part of my point from Rom.8. Sorry for the redundancy there.

Edit: FWIW… musically, I hate the song Glory for Me! Sounds like roller skating music.
Good points, Aaron. I hate sing-song carousel music too. But out of the songs we choose, the message bears the weight. Yet, I sometimes steer away from the sing-song, because it just doesn’t fit at all.

However, God made the emotions. I choose to have emotional reaction for the good, so it is a goal. That isn’t all my motivation, but it’s in the mix. It doesn’t seem wise to me to stifle the factor of emotional responsiveness, especially since I believe that the Holy Spirit uses it in the best sense. Let’s not limit good music because of doctrinal coldness.

Open our eyes, Lord. Luke 24:31,32,45 KJV <·)}}}>< Silverghost °Ü°