Churches shouldn’t avoid politics, but they shouldn’t talk about it like this

Ernie Lucas is a personal friend of mine, and a good man with solid theology. It is my opinion that he tends to conflate Biblical Christianity and American Patriotism, and I’m afraid this tendency has harmed his ministry. Still, the man has a solid record spanning many decades, and my prayers are with him. He’s out-spoken, but riveting. You will never go to sleep when Ernie’s preaching!

I sort of wish I went to that church so I would have had a chance to walk out that Sunday too. Pure idiocy…

Agreed.

I would also walk out, but would you walk out if he said the opposite? I would.

[Larry]

I would also walk out, but would you walk out if he said the opposite? I would.

Yes Larry, I would. I would hate it just as much actually. I am not sure how you have decided for me that I am a liberal. I despise the far left as much as this lunacy on the right.

“I’ve tried to be honest,” Lucas said. “I’ve tried to do what’s right. But I believe in my country. I love my country. And I don’t mind standing up for the country.”

Lucas’ misunderstanding is that the “love it or leave it” sign isn’t about standing up for his country. It’s about dragging his congregation into a national political debate, taking one side without expressing sympathy for the other…

As a pastor, Lucas’ job is not to stand up for his country, but to stand up for his faith and his congregation. If they were so concerned that they left church on Sunday, then Lucas’ personal opinions are overwhelming his professional, and spiritual, responsibilities.

Exactly right. When love for your country gets in the way of tending the sheep God has given you, something is off-center in your life and ministry.

I hope the church is able to heal and recover from this division.

I only wish all SI readers knew Ernie the way I do. He’s a character, one of a kind who won’t be around much longer. He’s in his eighties, and his wife, whom he affectionately calls “Granny,” is not well. He retired from the church which he founded, but the pastor they called, with Ernie’s encouragement, did not last, and the church asked Ernie to become interim pastor until they could find a new man.

Ernie is old school. He’s from the WW II veterans generation. He’s from a BBF Springfield background, but is more solid doctrinally than most in that category. He’s a flag waver, and doesn’t understand Americans who are not proud of their country. He’ll survive this episode, and I predict his church will probably end up bigger than it was before the brew ha ha started. We’ll see. (No, I don’t share all Ernie’s views, and no, I do not endorse the offending church sign and Ernie’s subsequent remarks, but I understand them. And you would understand them better and be more kindly if you knew Ernie the way I do.)

I’ve always hated the Christian-America nationalism that’s long characterised some corners of evangelicalism. My distaste has grown in the Trump era. I deliberately never celebrate secular nationalist holidays at church. I never even thanked veterans on Veterans Day. No patriotic hymns on July 4.

I think our nation is under God’s judgment. The other elder and I pray for the nation and it’s local and national leaders in pastoral prayers once per month. That’s it.

[G. N. Barkman]

He’ll survive this episode, and I predict his church will probably end up bigger than it was before the brew ha ha started. We’ll see.

I suspect you are right. Which is a sad reflection of the state of evangelicalism where many people seem to have wrapped their religion in an American flag.

Several things don’t add up in this story:

1. It seems very, very unlikely that this is the first time Pastor Lucas has used the church or pulpit to push conservative American political stances. In other words, the congregation of the church surely was already very familiar with this rhetoric and stance coming from him.
2. If the congregation already expected his rhetoric, why the outrage now?
3. Article seems to indicate that ALL the church walked out. Was it really everyone? - or just some?
4. An act of everyone leaving, especially if it occurred simultaneously, would have required some amount of coordination - even among church staff, pastoral assistants, and deacons. If that is the case, apparently no one chose to forewarn the pastor regarding the advance coordination. The pastor would then have seriously lost the trust and support of his staff.

That there’s more to this story than reported seems likely.

I didn’t get the sense that everyone walked out but it was definitely a significant group.

As for coordination - it may have been a smaller group but then become “contagious” once people realized that they weren’t the only ones with quiet reservations or doubts. I find it hard to believe that everyone was in on this walkout from the very beginning.

I think it is obvious that the people in that church have heard and put up with a lot of patriotic rhetoric from the pulpit. But perhaps this was the tipping point. We can only hope that Christians are finally waking up and reaching the tipping point where they decide not to continue in the mind-numbing embrace of Trump. Remember, this was not about patriotism; it was about a so-called spiritual leader endorsing the hateful rhetoric of Trump who had said the same thing a few days earlier.

“We had a good crowd today—ten out of town folk—first time visitors and two locals, plus some that came back. For all this, my heart melted, God be praised. I could not believe my eyes at seeing all the visitors this morning. We are hoping and praying for more visitors next Lord’s Day.”

With kindest regards in Christ,

E. W. L. and “Granny” E. W. Lucas: Retired

For your information, “America, Love it or Leave it” is an old slogan I used to hear decades ago. Pastor Lucas didn’t originate it, he simply quoted it. It never had any racial connotation. It was a challenge to those who dislike the American Constitution, founding principles, and way of life to find another country they like better if they are unhappy here. It doesn’t sound strange to those of my generation. I think it is entirely appropriate to say to a Somali immigrant that has been granted many generous benefits in America and loudly condemns her charitable host country.

[G. N. Barkman]

“We had a good crowd today—ten out of town folk—first time visitors and two locals, plus some that came back. For all this, my heart melted, God be praised. I could not believe my eyes at seeing all the visitors this morning. We are hoping and praying for more visitors next Lord’s Day.”

With kindest regards in Christ,

E. W. L. and “Granny” E. W. Lucas: Retired

For your information, “America, Love it or Leave it” is an old slogan I used to hear decades ago. Pastor Lucas didn’t originate it, he simply quoted it. It never had any racial connotation. It was a challenge to those who dislike the American Constitution, founding principles, and way of life to find another country they like better if they are unhappy here. It doesn’t sound strange to those of my generation. I think it is entirely appropriate to say to a Somali immigrant that has been granted many generous benefits in America and loudly condemns her charitable host country.

I am not sure why you posted this email. Are we supposed to think this vindicates him? That his hopping on the Trump train is a big success? That seems pretty pragmatic to me.

Truthfully, I am not the least bit surprised that he is getting a lot of visitors. There are a lot of evangelicals that have confused Trump with Jesus and the cross with the American flag. You could pack out many a church with those people. But that does not make it OK.

You are correct that the saying has been around a long time. But it is not coincidence that this guy used it two days after Trump used it. He was endorsing the worst of Trump. And whether you agree with the political views of the Somali immigrant or not, bashing her like that is inexcusable in a church.

Because this SI thread has raised significant interest in Ernie Lucas, and I think some SI readers will appreciate hearing directly from Ernie and getting an update on this past Sunday after the nationally publicized walk-out the Sunday before. No, GregH, I wouldn’t expect you to approve, but you are not the only person reading this thread.