Online Vs. in-Person Education: Theological Training Is Supposed to Be Hard

Wish options like we have now had been available when I was in seminary. Between work, school, ministry, and family, those years were mighty grueling. I do think the training should be hard, but it’s not necessarily the commute that should be the hard part!

I think the DBTS series is rather poor.

Don’t really want to elaborate. I’ll simply say I believe DBTS is trying to shame people to attend classes on-site, and implicitly suggesting those who chose another option are unwilling to endure hardship. I’m unmoved by these cheap appeals.

I don’t see any “shame” there myself, but belief in the superiority of how education has been done for thousands of years is on that ground alone a position to be reckoned with. And of course schools that want to focus on the presence approach are going to try to motivate others in that direction.

I think there are ways to blend the strengths of both options and lots of schools are working hard at that.

[Aaron Blumer]

I do think the training should be hard, but it’s not necessarily the commute that should be the hard part!

I *totally* agree. Moving, commuting, and re-arranging your schedule for traditional, on-site classes are challenges to conquer, but these are not necessarily the factors that make seminary education valuable. It is the academic rigor, interaction, writing, etc. that should be the challenge. Both traditional, online, and hybrid options are able to provide these challenges.

If you believe you are called to serve God in the gospel ministry, then you have been called to share in the suffering that all of God’s true servants have endured. You are not called to a life of convenience and ease but of hardship, difficulty, and sacrifice—setting the example for the life all of God’s children experience (Rom 8:17). Yet God’s ministers (and all of God’s children) gladly embrace this life of suffering, because the suffering cannot even be compared to the future glory that is ours (Rom 8:18).

If this is what gospel ministry entails, how could we ever prioritize convenience in preparing for that work? If you choose an online degree, a shorter program, or a program without a biblical language requirement because of convenience, what does that say about your commitment to the task you claim God has given you?

If you believe God has given you a desire to be a church leader but are looking for the most convenient way to get a theological degree in preparation for that work—STOP! Either start approaching this work with the whole-hearted, serious, sacrificial labor it requires, or stop pretending you want to serve the Savior who “suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps” (1 Pet 2:21).

Allow me to retort. Which is harder, learning the original languages in class or on-line? Which takes more effort and stewardship, having a f/t job, leading your family, serving in a meaningful way in your church, and taking 2 or 3 classes a semester … or working p/t, maybe having a family, maybe serving in a church, and spending most of your time in class or the library?

Look, if the “ideal” seminary education must involve suffering and hardship, I’d say let’s do it right. Don’t allow seminarians to use resources like ebsco, logos, or computers in general. If they want to research the NT manuscript evidence, make them travel to the museums in person instead of looking at the manuscript evidence on-line. After all, all these resources and tools were designed to make learning and theological education easier and more convenient.

Or, you could learn to be a better steward of your time and energy and take advantage of the tools available to you. At the end of the day, each man will be accountable to God as to whether he was a faithful steward and minister of the Gospel (1 Cor 4) … not whether he suffered and endured enough hardship in seminary to qualify him to really be a minister of the Gospel.

[T Howard]

Allow me to retort. Which is harder, learning the original languages in class or on-line? Which takes more effort and stewardship, having a f/t job, leading your family, serving in a meaningful way in your church, and taking 2 or 3 classes a semester … or working p/t, maybe having a family, maybe serving in a church, and spending most of your time in class or the library?

Look, if the “ideal” seminary education must involve suffering and hardship, I’d say let’s do it right. Don’t allow seminarians to use resources like ebsco, logos, or computers in general. If they want to research the NT manuscript evidence, make them travel to the museums in person instead of looking at the manuscript evidence on-line. After all, all these resources and tools were designed to make learning and theological education easier and more convenient.

Or, you could learn to be a better steward of your time and energy and take advantage of the tools available to you. At the end of the day, each man will be accountable to God as to whether he was a faithful steward and minister of the Gospel (1 Cor 4) … not whether he suffered and endured enough hardship in seminary to qualify him to really be a minister of the Gospel.

Allow me to retort.

If you are going to retort, make it better than this. :D

No one has argued it should be hard for the sake of being hard. So why respond to that? No one is saying that. So if you are going to retort, at least retort to something that was said.

But let’s move past the silliness:

1. Do you deny that there is a mindset of convenience among some people when it comes to education? (It has already been admitted, including here on this very board.)
2. Do you believe that young men training for ministry are beyond being challenged about their mindset towards preparation and the best way to do it?

Contrary to what seems to be Tyler’s assertion, this article (and all the others I believe) said that a distance option is a good option for some people. In fact, DBTS has done some distance classes as Ben mentioned in this article. As Ben said here, there are a variety of factors that inform the decision. And if you haven’t, make sure to read the comments where Ben responds again.

The point raised by the article—the desire to do distance education for convenience—is undeniably true, isn’t it? (One article somewhere mentioned that even local students will sign up for an online class to avoid having to go to class). And if convenience or lack of hardship is the sole reason or major reason for choosing distance ed, it might be good to be ashamed of that. Or at least be challenged on it.

This convenience/hardship motivation has been admitted by people both here and elsewhere. They plainly said they didn’t want to move, leave their job, put their family through it, etc. Tyler himself has said he didn’t want to leave a good paying job with good benefits for himself and his family in order to take a lesser paying job with fewer (or no) benefits working for a church. I presume the same would apply to schooling though I don’t recall if he said that. That’s fine if that’s what he wants to do. A man has to provide for his family and there are multiple ways to do that, so I am not sitting in judgment on Tyler for that. I was bivocational (even trivocational) for a time, so I know the life. Tyler has also been clear that many churches can’t pay enough to support a pastor and that creates hardship and inconvenience. So Tyler admits the point. There are some people, again not all, who are looking to avoid hardship and inconvenience. They are looking for the easiest way to get training and credentials for ministry.That, in and of itself, is not wrong. But can’t we at least ask question and challenge thinking?

The bigger question to me is this: Why is it that some we think young men who feel called to pastor are above being challenged about the mindset they have towards preparation? If a man in his 20s takes shortcuts in preparation for ministry, what does that say about the future? Maybe nothing; but maybe something. To borrow a line from Jeremiah, it is good for a man to bear the yoke in his youth. Think about how many services there are offered today to cut hours off your prep time for preaching. Why are we trying to do that? Why is that a selling point? It is a mindset that there are other more important things to do than to train and prepare for ministry. IMO, that should be challenged, regardless of how one answers the questions.

When someone points out a possible problem with that mindset, it should not be dismissed with the wave of a hand. In many cases, here at SI and other places, we see the problems that come with avoiding the commitment necessary to do the work of ministry. And it’s troubling to me.

But more to the point, Tyler, if you have no interest in engaging, then why post in the topic? That is what gets threads off the rails as we have seen lately. I would welcome substantive engagement on this topic. It’s a worthy one. But to post your disagreement and call out someone for shaming and then be unwilling to back that with an argument seems to me to indicate it would be better to stay out of it.

For 12 years I commuted to DBTS 45 minutes each way while pastoring fulltime and raising four children, managing a Christian School, and serving on several ministry boards. On most occasions I had to be at DBTS by 7 AM. It was very difficult. Yet, the training I received in person was invaluable to me. All of my professors are close friends of mine and I borrow their wisdom continually. The personal interaction with my professors, the ability to ask questions before and after class, and the social bonding affected my life and ministry profoundly. 130 graduate hours take a long time, especially when many classes were only 2 credits (that has changed now). DBTS was and is a very demanding seminary. They have made the school more accommodating in the last ten years. I highly recommend it. This is not to discount the help and practicality of online education. As the chairman of the academic committee at BJU, we are greatly expanding that form of education. Currently BJU has a grand total of 300 plus students in their seminary programs which includes both on-site and online students.

Regarding T. Howard’s comment, I’ll grant Larry’s point that nobody is fessing up to deliberately making things difficult, but look at the article Tom’s responding to; the title says that theological training is supposed to be hard, and the rest of the article defends the notion of the difficulty of moving to the seminary, etc.. Now to be sure, “follow Me” is a command, but then there is the counterpoint of “my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” I think we do need to find some balance where the difficulty is in following Christ, not in other burdens that find us.

The article states:

If you choose an online degree, a shorter program, or a program without a biblical language requirement because of convenience, what does that say about your commitment to the task you claim God has given you?

Now is premise here is choosing those three “because of convenience” as being bad. And I agree both with others here that we do lots of things because of convenience, but I also agree that some things ought not be neglected because of convenience (which seems to be what Edwards’s article is arguing). But the three things are not equal. To take them in reverse order:

1. Trying to avoid biblical languages is a common thing today, but that is directly against trying to have a better grasp of God’s word. This, for one who intends to be a preacher, IMO, should not be avoided at all (for convenience or otherwise). Exegeting the word of God to the best level requires such training (that’s not to imply that good cannot be done by preachers who are not so trained).
2. Taking a shorter program simply relates to “how much” training one wants to get, and of what type (what mix of classes). For the Bible, I think everyone would agree that “more is better” (the more we study and think about God’s Word, the better). But not all that training has to come in a single degree program. One might opt for a shorter degree now, with the possibility of later expanding the education. Others might choose to get as much now, realizing they may never come back to formal education again. Hopefully all preachers “self-learn” throughout their ministry, whether they ever return to formal education or not. So convenience to get some training now, with plans to expand later is not necessarily wrong.
3. Taking an online course has different convenience accommodations than moving to study, but it is not necessarily more “convenient.” I try to help my students in my online graduate classes realize what they are in for. We offer a 7-week versions of a full term (15 week) classes, which means they are double the pace and intensity. So taking a 3 credit class in a 7-week version will feel like you are taking 6 credits during that time. It means the 135 clock hours expected of a student in a term (to meet standards for graduate level credits for in-class as well as study/work outside of class) will map out to about 19.25 hours a week: the equivalent of taking on a part-time job. If a student chooses to take two classes during the same half-term session, then they are taking on expected load of a full-time job during those 7 weeks. Add that into one who may already be working a full-time job, doing ministry, raising children, etc., and something will have to “give” (sleep, maybe). So online may not be so “convenient.” Often when people move to go to school, their focus is school, so they expect the “full-time” of courses, and have possibly arranged work such that it is part-time, and ministry is “there,” but not “full-time.” So one changes the conveniences depending on the route one takes (and that is not to say that online vs. in-person need be different: one can be full-time at it all, doing in-person courses, and part-time at “life” while full-time doing online courses; but generally it falls as I noted above).

So regarding online vs. in-person, it is all matter of what “mix” of convenience one wants to have in one’s life, but no matter what, there are going to be inconveniences experienced. Do what works for you, but don’t cheat yourself on the learning needed to be an ever more effective minister (whether that is “self-learned” or formally gaining a degree).

I was going to write a larger piece, but Scott (above) echoed my own thoughts. Instead, I have a few short comments that I believe most fair-minded people can agree on:

• You need biblical languages. If you choose a program because it skips that requirement, then you’re making a mistake. I enjoy Greek a lot. I translated the passage I preached last week. You need original languages.
• If you’re young and immature, and cannot do work without accountability, then an online or virtual option is not good for you. Be honest with yourself. I came to Seminary as a mature adult, after spending a decade in the military and getting a BA in a secular undergrad. Everyone is different. More below …
  • I define “online” as completely internet-based, with interaction through recorded video and in comment boxes (etc.). It’s asynchronous. This requires the highest degree of dedication.
  • I define “virtual” as a synchronous presence in class, live, where you can interact with the students and the professor. This is the best distance option. I believe Maranatha offers this for all its Seminary classes.
• The seminary is not the local church. Wallace (whose article spawned the DBTS series) overemphasized the seminary’s role in mentoring. This is a common trend.

Go to a good seminary that offers good academic rigor, with original languages. This might be in-person, online or virtual - your own context and circumstances will determine what is best. Don’t let well-meaning professors shame you into moving across the country; it’s not always the best option for you. And, in 2019, it doesn’t have to be the only option.

• In-person theological training in a formal graduate setting isn’t the biblical model for theological education. It isn’t even necessarily the best model. It’s just the model we’re used to.

Whatever else may be said in this thread, that bolded statement will always remain true. Remember that.