The problem with demonic faith
Forum category
I’ve come across this verse in various forms in the past few days—James 2:19 “You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble.” In most of the cases this verse is used to support a supposed dichotomy between a common faith (one considered dead) and saving faith (one considered alive). I think this is even the position taken in the evangelistic Bible study book The Exchange published by BJU Press. I have a few problems with this interpretation but would like to know if others do as well.
Let me summarize my own concerns:
1.) One of the key problems with this interpretation is that it fails to note the difference between demons and humans. Jesus died for men, not for fallen angels. He was in incarnate as an angel. There is no hint Biblically that there is any redemption offered for demons. When they rebelled against God they sealed their fate.
2.) I also don’t care for the logical extension of this argument. It is the argument that it is possible to believe in something fully but not really have faith in it.
3.) Finally, it divides the last part of the verse from the first. The demons believe that “there is one God.” There is nothing salvific in that belief. There are monotheists that are not believers.
If you have any thoughts…I would appreciate your responding. I’d like to read what you think.
Matt
Let me summarize my own concerns:
1.) One of the key problems with this interpretation is that it fails to note the difference between demons and humans. Jesus died for men, not for fallen angels. He was in incarnate as an angel. There is no hint Biblically that there is any redemption offered for demons. When they rebelled against God they sealed their fate.
2.) I also don’t care for the logical extension of this argument. It is the argument that it is possible to believe in something fully but not really have faith in it.
3.) Finally, it divides the last part of the verse from the first. The demons believe that “there is one God.” There is nothing salvific in that belief. There are monotheists that are not believers.
If you have any thoughts…I would appreciate your responding. I’d like to read what you think.
Matt
- 3 views
Historically this verse has served to demonstrated a dichotomy between mere belief and the faith which is requisite for the Christian walk the former being ascribed to the likes of Plato’s formulation of the Demiurge and Aristotle ascription of creation to the “Father.” In the present case James informs us that the demons exercise belief, but a singular difference divides the faith of a child of God and the belief of the Satan’s hordes and that difference is the placement of the will in the process of faith.
Faith for a child of God begins as a gift of the Holy Spirit delivered through the hearing of the word of God. Upon reception, faith informs the will of man. Subsequently the will by faith then moves the intellect to accept the object of that faith - Jesus Christ and His teachings.
Belief on the other hand does not come from the Holy Spirit, but rather first through the senses (seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, and smelling). The sensation then travels from the sense receptor and communicates to the intellect. Once the intellect has been sufficiently informed the will then is moved to belief. So as you can see in the case of faith, faith moves the will and in the case of belief the intellect moves the will. That I believe is the fundamental difference.
In the case of Plato and Aristotle they were able by use of logic and observation to conclude much about God and the created order ‘s relationship to God but did not come to faith seeing that the word of God and Spirit of God were not the efficient cause. The same is for the demons. They through their senses experienced God and the preincarnate Christ before the fall and in the case of Satan, return to Heaven from time to time to temp God’s people so his senses are constantly reminded of God. A perfect example of this contrast is found at the Fall in the person of Eve,
Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Eve believed the serpent which began with the senses (saw and pleasant to the eyes) and did not have faith in God which began with His revelation not to eat of the tree.
To say that James 2:19 is direct support to demonstrate the difference between “common faith” and “saving faith” is a misplaced application. First, because the belief that lost men have that there is a God (e.g. Deists) is not faith as defined as that gift from God and is therefore not a faith common substantively. Second, the belief of lost men is not common to all disruptively in that the sensus divinitatus or sense of God is not belief or faith but rather is part of every human’s noetic equipment. Faith and belief are actions while the sense of God is a state of being.
The demons don’t just believe that there is one God, they believe that one God is Jehovah. Furthermore, it can easily be argued that the preincarnate Christ was the efficient cause of all creation therefore the demons who were made by Christ either on the 3rd or 6th day believe that Christ is God as well.
In sum, the faith the child of God exercises is not merely for salvation for the just live by faith and that faith moves the will and the will the intellect. Demons are confirmed in their damnation with no way of redemption so far as Scripture says and as a result they will never be regenerated and be given the gift of faith but that does not exclude their senses from informing their intellects and the intellect the will and the will conjuring belief.
So there are some of my thoughts. Questions about the nature of faith are are great because of their foundational nature. Perhaps more will share their thoughts on faith/belief from the perspective of James 2:19.
Faith for a child of God begins as a gift of the Holy Spirit delivered through the hearing of the word of God. Upon reception, faith informs the will of man. Subsequently the will by faith then moves the intellect to accept the object of that faith - Jesus Christ and His teachings.
Belief on the other hand does not come from the Holy Spirit, but rather first through the senses (seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, and smelling). The sensation then travels from the sense receptor and communicates to the intellect. Once the intellect has been sufficiently informed the will then is moved to belief. So as you can see in the case of faith, faith moves the will and in the case of belief the intellect moves the will. That I believe is the fundamental difference.
In the case of Plato and Aristotle they were able by use of logic and observation to conclude much about God and the created order ‘s relationship to God but did not come to faith seeing that the word of God and Spirit of God were not the efficient cause. The same is for the demons. They through their senses experienced God and the preincarnate Christ before the fall and in the case of Satan, return to Heaven from time to time to temp God’s people so his senses are constantly reminded of God. A perfect example of this contrast is found at the Fall in the person of Eve,
Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Eve believed the serpent which began with the senses (saw and pleasant to the eyes) and did not have faith in God which began with His revelation not to eat of the tree.
To say that James 2:19 is direct support to demonstrate the difference between “common faith” and “saving faith” is a misplaced application. First, because the belief that lost men have that there is a God (e.g. Deists) is not faith as defined as that gift from God and is therefore not a faith common substantively. Second, the belief of lost men is not common to all disruptively in that the sensus divinitatus or sense of God is not belief or faith but rather is part of every human’s noetic equipment. Faith and belief are actions while the sense of God is a state of being.
The demons don’t just believe that there is one God, they believe that one God is Jehovah. Furthermore, it can easily be argued that the preincarnate Christ was the efficient cause of all creation therefore the demons who were made by Christ either on the 3rd or 6th day believe that Christ is God as well.
In sum, the faith the child of God exercises is not merely for salvation for the just live by faith and that faith moves the will and the will the intellect. Demons are confirmed in their damnation with no way of redemption so far as Scripture says and as a result they will never be regenerated and be given the gift of faith but that does not exclude their senses from informing their intellects and the intellect the will and the will conjuring belief.
So there are some of my thoughts. Questions about the nature of faith are are great because of their foundational nature. Perhaps more will share their thoughts on faith/belief from the perspective of James 2:19.
Ontology Precedes Epistemology.
StandardSacredText.com
Matt
Those are unshakeable points and will serve any student well in understanding the passage correctly and will help not produce the erring view to which some hold that one can “intellectually” believe the gospel but not be saved. The Bible presents no such thing. When it speaks of faith or belief in the gospel the words are used synonymously and absolutely. That is either one believes or places faith in the gospel and is saved or they are not saved because they do not believe or place faith in the gospel. To produce the “in between faith/belief but no salvation” paradigm requires rationalism using the proof-texting method. It sounds smart and/or reasonable but once one begins to examine the proof-texts which undergird this rationalistic construct as you are doing with James it falls apart piece by piece.
Those are unshakeable points and will serve any student well in understanding the passage correctly and will help not produce the erring view to which some hold that one can “intellectually” believe the gospel but not be saved. The Bible presents no such thing. When it speaks of faith or belief in the gospel the words are used synonymously and absolutely. That is either one believes or places faith in the gospel and is saved or they are not saved because they do not believe or place faith in the gospel. To produce the “in between faith/belief but no salvation” paradigm requires rationalism using the proof-texting method. It sounds smart and/or reasonable but once one begins to examine the proof-texts which undergird this rationalistic construct as you are doing with James it falls apart piece by piece.
I wonder if we might compare the belief that a demon has in God and its understanding of Jesus with the way a person in hell might understand Him. Certainly the rich man who went to hell knew that there was something terribly wrong with his own earthly understanding of God, at least enough to plead with Abraham to send someone to his brothers. Perhaps his present experience of being in hell had something to do with that.
I tend to think that what James is referring to in the case of demons is not faith but knowledge. If they had faith they would have renounced their rebellion against God thousands of years ago.
Matt
I tend to think that what James is referring to in the case of demons is not faith but knowledge. If they had faith they would have renounced their rebellion against God thousands of years ago.
Matt
The epistemology argument that you bring up is an interesting one. Certainly people can know the gospel without believing in it personally. Matthew’s Gospel makes it clear that the Pharisees knew Jesus rose from the dead but their actions in Acts demonstrate that they rejected, out of hand, any trust in it.
I totally agree with you that proof texting is probably one of the main reasons for these doctrinal flaws that creep in to our thinking. It’s very easy to put references on the ends of arguments to make them seem to be supported Biblically.
Matt
I totally agree with you that proof texting is probably one of the main reasons for these doctrinal flaws that creep in to our thinking. It’s very easy to put references on the ends of arguments to make them seem to be supported Biblically.
Matt
Discussion