Question about tongues and visions
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I have some family that is very involved in an organization called IHOP (International House of Prayer) And they are always talking about how they believe in speaking in tongues and receiving visions from God etc. What are some biblical references to disprove that? They tell me that because I don’t believe in that I have a shallow faith. Need help!
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You can Google search the leader of IHOP, Mike Bickle, to get an idea of his background.
Bottom line, he is a false prophet, and any/all ministries that are associated with him must be avoided.
I’ve attached two of his “prophecies” that Bickle claims came directly from God, in brazen violation of Rev 22:18-19.
Hope this helps.
Bottom line, he is a false prophet, and any/all ministries that are associated with him must be avoided.
I’ve attached two of his “prophecies” that Bickle claims came directly from God, in brazen violation of Rev 22:18-19.
Hope this helps.
A great resource for spiritual gifts is the book “Understanding Spiritual Gifts” (Revised edition) by Dr. Robert L. Thomas. He is the New Testament chair at the Master’s Seminary in Sun Valley, CA.
Ask them if the ‘visions’ and ‘tongues’ are being practiced in accordance with the Scriptural guidelines given in I Cor; I think it’s chapters 11-14.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
First off, I don’t think disproving tongues or visions is what is needed, at least first off. You really need to just deal with Mike C said. That is the much larger issue.
Second, I am not trying to persuade you to use or believe the ‘experiential’ spiritual gifts, but it sounds as if you have not done any study to begin with. It might be once you study them out, you may believe those gifts, although not with IHOP and its leader(s). I, for example, am not a cessationist, yet I don’t think that a) everyone needs to practice experiential gifts b) every culture should be practicing spiritual gifts, or at least it be common place.
Not speaking authoritatively, but it is interesting to see a relation between those countries that are seeing massive evangelistic growth and experiential spiritual gifts, as well as those countries that are heavily steeped in witchcraft. Could there be a direct correlation? I am not sure any of us have enough information to answer this accurately (That is, if you are not a cessationist), but it is something to think about.(Again, not that it proves experiential spiritual gifts)
Another question that requires deep probing is, are the spiritual gifts being used out of love? Or are they being used out of pride. Take I Cor 13:1-7 for example. It is easy for us to say someone who uses these spiritual gifts is doing it out of love. Yet, Paul says one could lay down his life for another and not do it out of love. So, this question is a very hard question to answer, but one that must be answered no matter what Spiritual Gift is being used, wisdom, teaching, prophecy (preaching), knowledge, discernment, etc.
Second, I am not trying to persuade you to use or believe the ‘experiential’ spiritual gifts, but it sounds as if you have not done any study to begin with. It might be once you study them out, you may believe those gifts, although not with IHOP and its leader(s). I, for example, am not a cessationist, yet I don’t think that a) everyone needs to practice experiential gifts b) every culture should be practicing spiritual gifts, or at least it be common place.
Not speaking authoritatively, but it is interesting to see a relation between those countries that are seeing massive evangelistic growth and experiential spiritual gifts, as well as those countries that are heavily steeped in witchcraft. Could there be a direct correlation? I am not sure any of us have enough information to answer this accurately (That is, if you are not a cessationist), but it is something to think about.(Again, not that it proves experiential spiritual gifts)
Another question that requires deep probing is, are the spiritual gifts being used out of love? Or are they being used out of pride. Take I Cor 13:1-7 for example. It is easy for us to say someone who uses these spiritual gifts is doing it out of love. Yet, Paul says one could lay down his life for another and not do it out of love. So, this question is a very hard question to answer, but one that must be answered no matter what Spiritual Gift is being used, wisdom, teaching, prophecy (preaching), knowledge, discernment, etc.
There are a lot of charasmatics in Ukraine, nice ones, actually, and one pastor said to a gal: speaking in tongues is only ONE possible spiritual gift. The idea being that, it’s unbiblical for us to think that the Spirit gives everyone the gift of tongues. Yet, what has happened is that tongues (or visions/dreams), has become a mark of spiritual maturity—a person achieves spiritual status by speaking in tongues. This is what Paul is addressing in I Cor.
So one answer to being accused of a shallow faith is that the Spirit gifts people differently—so using your gift of wisdom or gift of giving or gift of whatever, is just as much an expression of spiritual maturity (if you want to look at it that way) or “faith” as the gift of tongues. IOW, the gift of tongues is not an elite gift for those who have reached some amazing level of spiriutality or of “faith.” It is only ONE gift the Spirit gives (assuming He does give it).
So one answer to being accused of a shallow faith is that the Spirit gifts people differently—so using your gift of wisdom or gift of giving or gift of whatever, is just as much an expression of spiritual maturity (if you want to look at it that way) or “faith” as the gift of tongues. IOW, the gift of tongues is not an elite gift for those who have reached some amazing level of spiriutality or of “faith.” It is only ONE gift the Spirit gives (assuming He does give it).
I think a good way to disprove the shallow faith is to do a study with them in I Cor. I think the first part of ch 12 deals specifically with this. The Corinthians were all about what I have called the experiential gifts: those gifts that more visibly show the power of God. (tongues, miracles, foretelling vs knowledge, understanding, teaching, administering) But Paul attacks this thinking by saying it is the same Spirit that works in all gifts. And he gives to each person certain gifts. And he does not give everyone every gift.
If you follow a few verses down Paul uses a great illustration that not one person will have every spiritual gift. Of course the analogy breaks down at some point, but the Bride of Christ would look awfully weird if one part of her body was larger than it should, meaning everyone spoke in tongues. Or everyone taught. Or everyone had knowledge. In addition, those who have the gift of tongues or any of the experiential gifts, cannot say they have no need of those who prophecy (forth-tell), or those who have knowledge or understanding.
v20-26 is continuing that same analogy. Make sure you read it carefully. It is quite crude for most Western cultures talking about certain parts of our body that we cover up. And those parts/gifts we are to give greater honor.
And then follow through with the end of that chapter, and the question needs to be asked why does it seem Paul is ranking gifts, 1,2,3, all other. And what does it mean? Why does he place non experiential gifts first, and more than that Apostles, prophets (I would assume he means forth-telling), teachers? The way I heard this explained is, all gifts are needed for the Bride of Christ to look beautiful, knowing that not all gifts are given to everyone and more than likely not every gift is given to one person. Paul ranks the gifts knowing that some gifts are more beneficial to the Bride of Christ, while others are less. For example, healings are only beneficial to those being healed, while teaching is beneficial to anyone listening. And the ranking of the first three are in order of the degree to which they can say thus says the Lord, Apostleship being the closest.
If you follow a few verses down Paul uses a great illustration that not one person will have every spiritual gift. Of course the analogy breaks down at some point, but the Bride of Christ would look awfully weird if one part of her body was larger than it should, meaning everyone spoke in tongues. Or everyone taught. Or everyone had knowledge. In addition, those who have the gift of tongues or any of the experiential gifts, cannot say they have no need of those who prophecy (forth-tell), or those who have knowledge or understanding.
v20-26 is continuing that same analogy. Make sure you read it carefully. It is quite crude for most Western cultures talking about certain parts of our body that we cover up. And those parts/gifts we are to give greater honor.
And then follow through with the end of that chapter, and the question needs to be asked why does it seem Paul is ranking gifts, 1,2,3, all other. And what does it mean? Why does he place non experiential gifts first, and more than that Apostles, prophets (I would assume he means forth-telling), teachers? The way I heard this explained is, all gifts are needed for the Bride of Christ to look beautiful, knowing that not all gifts are given to everyone and more than likely not every gift is given to one person. Paul ranks the gifts knowing that some gifts are more beneficial to the Bride of Christ, while others are less. For example, healings are only beneficial to those being healed, while teaching is beneficial to anyone listening. And the ranking of the first three are in order of the degree to which they can say thus says the Lord, Apostleship being the closest.
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