What are today's Romans 14 issues in your local church?
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In the 1st century church of Rome, these were the issues:
one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables (14:2)
AND
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike (14:5)
What are today’s Romans 14 issues in your local church?
- 8 views
- Please only list what you believe to be Romans 14 scenarios in your own church
- Indicate the position of the weaker and and the stronger brethren (as Paul did in Romans 14:2).
- If there are no issues of this sort in your church, so indicate and explain how your church arrived at such a state of complete agreement
We do not have many Romans 14 issues in our church. Perhaps a few (a very few) might feel awkward about a few things we do, but they are things we do in specialized settings, so those people can find it easy to avoid them. They would not be likely to come to those events anyhow.
For example:
1. We have ballroom dance lessons and a banquet ball for our teens every summer, but parents are welcome, too.
2. We play cards in our noteworthy “Jesus Lodge.” I am probably the only pastor in town who has a “card ministry.” I teach guys the games.
Since no one is coerced or pressured to participate, they do not cause much trouble.
3. One area where we do have disagreement, but avoid the situation altogether, is in the area of alcohol. I teach (and most of our people believe) that it is not a sin to drink alcohol in moderation. Yet most of us do not drink (I cook with lots of the stuff, though!) or drink rarely. So we do not allow drinking at any church function. I guess that would be a true Romans 14 issue.
4. Another area for disagreement is movie ratings. My wife and I are into G and PG, and, on rare occasions, when screened by someone whose values we trust, PG-13 (rarely). But some Christians have no reservations watching R movies. I do not view this as so much a Romans 14 issue, because to me it is not questionable, it is simply wrong. Those who hold another view would consider me the weaker brother on this one.
5. Video games, what is and is not appropriate for youth to do — we disagree on many of these things, but we try to avoid endorsed church activities that include these sorts of things. A lot of these issues are hashed out on an informal basis, between parents whose children are friends.
6. These new vampire books are another case in point, as were those Harry Potter novels and movies. So we are not going to take our youth group to a Harry Potter movie, and I am not going to rant and rave about these things. We try to respect parental domain, but we might suggest some considerations.
7. Gothic and Emo styles raise some eyebrows, as do tattoos. Again, we let families and individuals hash this out.
It is hard to objectively distinguish between the weaker and the stronger brother, because we cannot always agree as to what is right and wrong. I look at it more as a matter of “what do we tolerate and what do we promote.” I would not let my kids read Vampire books, and I consider those parents who do wrong. From their viewpoint, I am the weaker brother. From my viewpoint, I am the wiser brother. See the subjectivity here?
When I came here 26 years ago, we had all sorts of (what I consider silly)issues, even disagreements as to whether it was right to have church dinners! I am glad those days are gone. I am sure glad God has not called me to another church. I don’t know that I have any patience left to deal with all that stuff again.
For example:
1. We have ballroom dance lessons and a banquet ball for our teens every summer, but parents are welcome, too.
2. We play cards in our noteworthy “Jesus Lodge.” I am probably the only pastor in town who has a “card ministry.” I teach guys the games.
Since no one is coerced or pressured to participate, they do not cause much trouble.
3. One area where we do have disagreement, but avoid the situation altogether, is in the area of alcohol. I teach (and most of our people believe) that it is not a sin to drink alcohol in moderation. Yet most of us do not drink (I cook with lots of the stuff, though!) or drink rarely. So we do not allow drinking at any church function. I guess that would be a true Romans 14 issue.
4. Another area for disagreement is movie ratings. My wife and I are into G and PG, and, on rare occasions, when screened by someone whose values we trust, PG-13 (rarely). But some Christians have no reservations watching R movies. I do not view this as so much a Romans 14 issue, because to me it is not questionable, it is simply wrong. Those who hold another view would consider me the weaker brother on this one.
5. Video games, what is and is not appropriate for youth to do — we disagree on many of these things, but we try to avoid endorsed church activities that include these sorts of things. A lot of these issues are hashed out on an informal basis, between parents whose children are friends.
6. These new vampire books are another case in point, as were those Harry Potter novels and movies. So we are not going to take our youth group to a Harry Potter movie, and I am not going to rant and rave about these things. We try to respect parental domain, but we might suggest some considerations.
7. Gothic and Emo styles raise some eyebrows, as do tattoos. Again, we let families and individuals hash this out.
It is hard to objectively distinguish between the weaker and the stronger brother, because we cannot always agree as to what is right and wrong. I look at it more as a matter of “what do we tolerate and what do we promote.” I would not let my kids read Vampire books, and I consider those parents who do wrong. From their viewpoint, I am the weaker brother. From my viewpoint, I am the wiser brother. See the subjectivity here?
When I came here 26 years ago, we had all sorts of (what I consider silly)issues, even disagreements as to whether it was right to have church dinners! I am glad those days are gone. I am sure glad God has not called me to another church. I don’t know that I have any patience left to deal with all that stuff again.
"The Midrash Detective"
- Participate in Halloween or not?
- Christian school (or home school) or public school?
- Bible college or public college?
- Women working outside of the home or not?
There is an essential disagreement about what issues are covered by the commands in Romans 14.
“In my church,” is a great qualifier for this thread. In other words, on what issues have you believed that you had to obey the commands in Romans 14?
Two come to mind:
Music: I have at various times encouraged us to be more conservative in our music to make sure some of our older (or members with similar convictions) members feel welcome and encouraged by our music.
Fundraising: We did a youth group missions trip a few years ago and had an fundraiser in which the teens were auctioned off. The one who “bought” them gained their services for a day (most cleaned house, did car repairs, or did lawn work). One teen (and his father) felt that since this was being done in the church (on a Sunday night), it was too commercial and made God’s house into a place business. They believe that giving should be kept special as giving, and that if you mix buying services into the gift, it takes away from the pure joy of giving to God’s glory.
Thus, he had a conviction against involvement in this fundraiser.
My response was:
1. I called our pastors and explained the conviction and the Biblical reasoning behind it. I told them that I did see the Biblical and logical character of this conviction, but that I did not share it. I wanted to be assured that they didn’t think that our whole church should abide by this conviction. They agreed.
2. I told the student that with that conviction, he should not be involved. But we raised money in a community way, so I expected that student to raise money other ways enough that the other students wouldn’t be saying that he was avoiding work. He did.
It did come up in the group that this one student wasn’t auctioning himself off - why not? He was present, so I asked him if I could explain his conviction to the group, or if he would like to. I explained it. I also explained that I believe that sometimes there can be a mix of motivation such that people give to God’s glory and get something at the same time.
“In my church,” is a great qualifier for this thread. In other words, on what issues have you believed that you had to obey the commands in Romans 14?
Two come to mind:
Music: I have at various times encouraged us to be more conservative in our music to make sure some of our older (or members with similar convictions) members feel welcome and encouraged by our music.
Fundraising: We did a youth group missions trip a few years ago and had an fundraiser in which the teens were auctioned off. The one who “bought” them gained their services for a day (most cleaned house, did car repairs, or did lawn work). One teen (and his father) felt that since this was being done in the church (on a Sunday night), it was too commercial and made God’s house into a place business. They believe that giving should be kept special as giving, and that if you mix buying services into the gift, it takes away from the pure joy of giving to God’s glory.
Thus, he had a conviction against involvement in this fundraiser.
My response was:
1. I called our pastors and explained the conviction and the Biblical reasoning behind it. I told them that I did see the Biblical and logical character of this conviction, but that I did not share it. I wanted to be assured that they didn’t think that our whole church should abide by this conviction. They agreed.
2. I told the student that with that conviction, he should not be involved. But we raised money in a community way, so I expected that student to raise money other ways enough that the other students wouldn’t be saying that he was avoiding work. He did.
It did come up in the group that this one student wasn’t auctioning himself off - why not? He was present, so I asked him if I could explain his conviction to the group, or if he would like to. I explained it. I also explained that I believe that sometimes there can be a mix of motivation such that people give to God’s glory and get something at the same time.
[Jim Peet]We have our 12 yo son sit with us in the services instead of going to youth group. We let our pastor and the youth leader know what we were doing, but we didn’t get into the details of ‘why’- they’ve both known for quite awhile that we are not enamored of the idea of youth group. Since we have alot of liberty in our church, no one really thinks it’s a big deal- at least not to my knowledge.
- Participate in Halloween or not?
- Christian school (or home school) or public school?
- Bible college or public college?
- Women working outside of the home or not?
I think the list you gave outlines sensitive areas for many folks, especially since each of those areas directly involve or impact children.
[Jim Peet]I would say that these are typical Romans 14 issues, although that last one might be modified to “Women with young children working outside of the home.” Not many women stay home when the kids are in college!
- Participate in Halloween or not?
- Christian school (or home school) or public school?
- Bible college or public college?
- Women working outside of the home or not?
"The Midrash Detective"
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