When is enough, enough?
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When do we stop feeling constant guilt, or do we never?
For me, I can be playing a game and I will feel, this is a complete waste of time.
So, I’ll start a sermon and listen to that while I play. That’s not enough, because I’m not paying complete attention.
I may do something else that doesn’t require me to focus, and then listen better.
But I still feel guilty, instead of listening to a man teach the word I should be reading, so I can get more information and understand better.
When I’m reading I think, shouldn’t I be reading the Bible? It is after all, God’s word and the best thing I could read.
Yet when I read the Bible, aside from being difficult for me to focus (kinetic learner, I’m this way with probably all books.) I still feel guilty because I don’t understand parts of it, my mind strays, I should have been reading it sooner, or I should know more of it.
Or, I should be reading it with a commentary, because though I can learn from just the Bible - I can learn more and make sure I don’t make a blunder (as I have before) with my doctrine, by miss-interpreting something, if I use a couple commentaries too.
But that’s not making it really useful. I need to memorize it. Then I have to learn the context around it too, and I have to learn the greek so I know I am reading it correctly, and learn culture so I know what it meant in that day.
I might read a few chapters in the Bible, go to church 3 times that day, listen to a couple more sermons when I come home, and spend time praying (admittedly, not enough), and I still go to bed feeling guilty. I should have done more.
I should have studied more, applied myself more firmly, spent time with other believers and non-believers, exhorting and witnessing.
(I do try to spend more time with other believers, some times I don’t know how to get into spiritual conversations, then or later, but often they’re just busy.)
Or I might go online to a ‘christian’ chat room and talk about doctrine, get advice and try to give advice. I still feel guilt. I didn’t fellowship enough, I wasn’t helpful enough. I long for it, yet usually when I get it I am not satisfied with it.
Or I’m sitting here reading a book on writing, because I want to write religious articles. And it just doesn’t feel right. Shouldn’t I be doing something better?
On a secular level, I may start reading a book on automotive service (because I want to know how to work on my own car) - realizing that this is a skill set I can help other people with, which is a spiritual service.. But, couldn’t I be doing something better - learning the Bible?
I often think of what one man said when the clock struck the next hour, ‘Now I have one more hour to answer for.’
Considering the thread I had here on giving an account, that’s not an issue.. But, what about other people? I have bloodshed on my hands for not making better use of my talents. I could be telling people more about Christ. Though not bloodshed, I could be helping believers to obey and LOVE God, that God would be glorified (He deserves this!), and that they would have more reward. Am I hating these people by not spending all of my Free time either encouraging/exhorting them, or learning how to do so? Or, working so that I could feed the poor, or learning a skillset to protect the weak, or… etc. And what about God? Did I serve him with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength while doing otherwise? Did I pray enough, that God would move His hand? That He would send forth laborers into the harvest?
Is this how our lives are supposed to be in the new birth? Will I ever hit my head on the pillow at night, not crying and asking God to forgive me for wasting so much time, asking Him to help me do better in the morning, and doubting my salvation because I do not see enough works.. But rather, thanking Him and asking Him to continue doing this in me, for I do not have the power in my self will? (It is God who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.)
It’s not just that I should be doing something. It’s that even when I’m doing something, I feel like I should be doing something more significant than what I am doing. Or I feel guilty for not doing more in the past.
When I look at Ecclesiastes, it seems that we should be able to enjoy the things God has allowed us. It doesn’t seem correct to say, “this is a waste of time,” but rather thank God for it and enjoy it in moderation. Do I understand correctly?
I think I see some fruit. Recently my speech has been more kind, I am less hateful/angry, I see our faith as less of duty and more as relationship, which helps us to fulfill our duty with the right reason / motive…
But in at least some ways, I had more ‘fruit’ 6 years ago, it seems. It’s hard to believe that I can have had more fruit then, and go downhill for so long, and be a convert. Maybe I wasn’t? Or maybe Heb 6:4-6 is what so many say it’s not?
What if I wasn’t then, but I am now? How do I KNOW I am converted now, and not deceived as I was before, when before it felt like I had even more fruit?
In the end, I’m not asking if we should feel guilty for sin. I guess I’m asking if it’s sin to not always be doing the things I said above, and to do them with all of our attention / strength.
Appreciate your time.
For me, I can be playing a game and I will feel, this is a complete waste of time.
So, I’ll start a sermon and listen to that while I play. That’s not enough, because I’m not paying complete attention.
I may do something else that doesn’t require me to focus, and then listen better.
But I still feel guilty, instead of listening to a man teach the word I should be reading, so I can get more information and understand better.
When I’m reading I think, shouldn’t I be reading the Bible? It is after all, God’s word and the best thing I could read.
Yet when I read the Bible, aside from being difficult for me to focus (kinetic learner, I’m this way with probably all books.) I still feel guilty because I don’t understand parts of it, my mind strays, I should have been reading it sooner, or I should know more of it.
Or, I should be reading it with a commentary, because though I can learn from just the Bible - I can learn more and make sure I don’t make a blunder (as I have before) with my doctrine, by miss-interpreting something, if I use a couple commentaries too.
But that’s not making it really useful. I need to memorize it. Then I have to learn the context around it too, and I have to learn the greek so I know I am reading it correctly, and learn culture so I know what it meant in that day.
I might read a few chapters in the Bible, go to church 3 times that day, listen to a couple more sermons when I come home, and spend time praying (admittedly, not enough), and I still go to bed feeling guilty. I should have done more.
I should have studied more, applied myself more firmly, spent time with other believers and non-believers, exhorting and witnessing.
(I do try to spend more time with other believers, some times I don’t know how to get into spiritual conversations, then or later, but often they’re just busy.)
Or I might go online to a ‘christian’ chat room and talk about doctrine, get advice and try to give advice. I still feel guilt. I didn’t fellowship enough, I wasn’t helpful enough. I long for it, yet usually when I get it I am not satisfied with it.
Or I’m sitting here reading a book on writing, because I want to write religious articles. And it just doesn’t feel right. Shouldn’t I be doing something better?
On a secular level, I may start reading a book on automotive service (because I want to know how to work on my own car) - realizing that this is a skill set I can help other people with, which is a spiritual service.. But, couldn’t I be doing something better - learning the Bible?
I often think of what one man said when the clock struck the next hour, ‘Now I have one more hour to answer for.’
Considering the thread I had here on giving an account, that’s not an issue.. But, what about other people? I have bloodshed on my hands for not making better use of my talents. I could be telling people more about Christ. Though not bloodshed, I could be helping believers to obey and LOVE God, that God would be glorified (He deserves this!), and that they would have more reward. Am I hating these people by not spending all of my Free time either encouraging/exhorting them, or learning how to do so? Or, working so that I could feed the poor, or learning a skillset to protect the weak, or… etc. And what about God? Did I serve him with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength while doing otherwise? Did I pray enough, that God would move His hand? That He would send forth laborers into the harvest?
Is this how our lives are supposed to be in the new birth? Will I ever hit my head on the pillow at night, not crying and asking God to forgive me for wasting so much time, asking Him to help me do better in the morning, and doubting my salvation because I do not see enough works.. But rather, thanking Him and asking Him to continue doing this in me, for I do not have the power in my self will? (It is God who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.)
It’s not just that I should be doing something. It’s that even when I’m doing something, I feel like I should be doing something more significant than what I am doing. Or I feel guilty for not doing more in the past.
When I look at Ecclesiastes, it seems that we should be able to enjoy the things God has allowed us. It doesn’t seem correct to say, “this is a waste of time,” but rather thank God for it and enjoy it in moderation. Do I understand correctly?
I think I see some fruit. Recently my speech has been more kind, I am less hateful/angry, I see our faith as less of duty and more as relationship, which helps us to fulfill our duty with the right reason / motive…
But in at least some ways, I had more ‘fruit’ 6 years ago, it seems. It’s hard to believe that I can have had more fruit then, and go downhill for so long, and be a convert. Maybe I wasn’t? Or maybe Heb 6:4-6 is what so many say it’s not?
What if I wasn’t then, but I am now? How do I KNOW I am converted now, and not deceived as I was before, when before it felt like I had even more fruit?
In the end, I’m not asking if we should feel guilty for sin. I guess I’m asking if it’s sin to not always be doing the things I said above, and to do them with all of our attention / strength.
Appreciate your time.
- 1 view
Not sure I’m much help on this because my sunny disposition leaves me more free of guilt than I probably should be :D
(Actually, most wouldn’t describe me as “sunny” I don’t think, so I’m not sure what the right word is)
But I think meditating on grace might be of some help. He knows that we are dust.
He also gives us richly all things to enjoy (1Tim.6:17).
A little theology may help also… God invented the first “good time.” That is, pleasure is His creation and His specialty. Because the “pleasures of this world” are so ubiquitous and harmful, we often start thinking that having a good time was the Devil’s invention and his unique area of expertise. Not so. The senses are God’s and He was the first to say the creation should look good, smell good, feel good, taste good.
So He is not glorified by an all work and no pleasure life. Rather, He is glorified by our redeeming pleasures as His gifts.
Maybe that helps some. You could read Desiring God by J. Piper. I have strong disagreements with several of his points, but he is right that the opposite of finding pleasure in sin is not to find no pleasure at all but rather to find pleasure in what pleases God and in God Himself.
(Actually, most wouldn’t describe me as “sunny” I don’t think, so I’m not sure what the right word is)
But I think meditating on grace might be of some help. He knows that we are dust.
He also gives us richly all things to enjoy (1Tim.6:17).
A little theology may help also… God invented the first “good time.” That is, pleasure is His creation and His specialty. Because the “pleasures of this world” are so ubiquitous and harmful, we often start thinking that having a good time was the Devil’s invention and his unique area of expertise. Not so. The senses are God’s and He was the first to say the creation should look good, smell good, feel good, taste good.
So He is not glorified by an all work and no pleasure life. Rather, He is glorified by our redeeming pleasures as His gifts.
Maybe that helps some. You could read Desiring God by J. Piper. I have strong disagreements with several of his points, but he is right that the opposite of finding pleasure in sin is not to find no pleasure at all but rather to find pleasure in what pleases God and in God Himself.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
J,
Paul says that God “comforts us in all of our affliction so that we may be able to comfort others who are in any affliction with the same comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.” (2Cor. 1:4)
I would like to share some things with you that I learned through my own affliction which may help.
It seems to me that this may be at the crux of your struggle:
CONCERNING THE BARAGE OF ONGOING GUILT
First, remember, the enemy is known as “The Accuser of the Brethren”. In my past, I was often my worse critic. I lived under a constant stream of self berating. Once I got really angry, and said some things in a way that I later regretted. I didn’t just regret the words that I spoke, but the fact that I had lost my temper so badly, etc. I confessed it to the Lord, and the person that I offended, but I continued to feel really bad and guilty. The next day was church. I didn’t feel worthy to even worship… (Do you get the picture? It was like an internal self-flagellation. ) But then the Lord impressed upon my mind: I had confessed and asked forgiveness. He had cleansed me of that sin along with all of my other sins. What more could I do to make it right? Nothing, He had forgiven me. Could the enemy be involved in bringing accusations against me, to myself, “adding more wood to the destructive fire of self criticism” that had raged within me? God reminded me of the verse, “there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus “ (Rom. 8:1). So whether all the guilt and internal berating were totally from myself or not, I knew that it wasn’t from God. I tend to think it was a form of spiritual warfare, because it seemed to “break” that day. So please recognize that you are in a spiritual battle, and your enemy is seeking to destroy you one way or another. Keeping you in a state of guilt over whether you are doing the “right good thing” could be one of His schemes. Personally I began praying that the Lord would give me a spirit of discernment to hear His voice, and learn to reject the destructive ones.
Paul says that God “comforts us in all of our affliction so that we may be able to comfort others who are in any affliction with the same comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.” (2Cor. 1:4)
I would like to share some things with you that I learned through my own affliction which may help.
It seems to me that this may be at the crux of your struggle:
How did you come to the place that you would look at your works to decide whether you were saved or not? Actually I have some idea. I have heard some radio personalities preach, “Test yourself to see if you are in the faith”. Then they go and give a long list of things to evaluate you by, yet they miss the actual test that Paul gives in this very verse: “Jesus Christ is in you” (2Cor. 13:5). We have God’s promise, “Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”. When you called upon the name of the Lord, God saved you. He sent the Spirit of His Son into your heart (Gal. 4:6). When Jesus Christ came to dwell in your heart (Eph. 3:17), He gave you His life (Col. 3:4). Jesus Christ is God’s gift of eternal life. “He who has the Son has the life, and he who does not have the Son of God does not have life” (1John 5:11, 12). When you were made alive with Jesus Christ, you were saved (Eph. 2:5). You were saved by His life (Rom. 5:10), saved by regeneration (Titus 3:5). Does Jesus Christ dwell in you? Then you are saved. And you have His promise; He will NEVER leave you or forsake you. You can’t lose your gift of salvation and you can be sure that you have it!“Is this how our lives are supposed to be in the new birth? Will I ever hit my head on the pillow at night, not crying and asking God to forgive me for wasting so much time, asking Him to help me do better in the morning, and doubting my salvation because I do not see enough works.”
CONCERNING THE BARAGE OF ONGOING GUILT
First, remember, the enemy is known as “The Accuser of the Brethren”. In my past, I was often my worse critic. I lived under a constant stream of self berating. Once I got really angry, and said some things in a way that I later regretted. I didn’t just regret the words that I spoke, but the fact that I had lost my temper so badly, etc. I confessed it to the Lord, and the person that I offended, but I continued to feel really bad and guilty. The next day was church. I didn’t feel worthy to even worship… (Do you get the picture? It was like an internal self-flagellation. ) But then the Lord impressed upon my mind: I had confessed and asked forgiveness. He had cleansed me of that sin along with all of my other sins. What more could I do to make it right? Nothing, He had forgiven me. Could the enemy be involved in bringing accusations against me, to myself, “adding more wood to the destructive fire of self criticism” that had raged within me? God reminded me of the verse, “there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus “ (Rom. 8:1). So whether all the guilt and internal berating were totally from myself or not, I knew that it wasn’t from God. I tend to think it was a form of spiritual warfare, because it seemed to “break” that day. So please recognize that you are in a spiritual battle, and your enemy is seeking to destroy you one way or another. Keeping you in a state of guilt over whether you are doing the “right good thing” could be one of His schemes. Personally I began praying that the Lord would give me a spirit of discernment to hear His voice, and learn to reject the destructive ones.
Thanks for the responses.
Aaron,
I love John Piper. I’ve probably heard 2 years worth of his sermons and trainings… Good suggestion ;)
Jim C,
Concerning works:
The entire book of 1Jo is so to speak ‘the’ method of testing ourselves.. These things have I written unto you, that you may know that you have eternal life.
And I doubt if I match it. . Isn’t that how it should be?
Aaron,
I love John Piper. I’ve probably heard 2 years worth of his sermons and trainings… Good suggestion ;)
Jim C,
Concerning works:
The entire book of 1Jo is so to speak ‘the’ method of testing ourselves.. These things have I written unto you, that you may know that you have eternal life.
And I doubt if I match it. . Isn’t that how it should be?
Seems one beef w/Desiring God was that he went so far as to define genuine conversion as consisting of a change of affections. I wouldn’t go that far. But I agree w/Edwards that there is no genuine conversion without a change of affections. Maybe I misunderstood JP on that score.
Need to review the book. I have far more hooks now to hang his ideas on.
Need to review the book. I have far more hooks now to hang his ideas on.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Aaron,
I believe JP’s view is that there has to be “some” affections/emotions for true conversion. It may be the smallest amount.
I don’t know what DG states.
I tend to agree.
Strongs defines repentance as, iirc, Morally to feel compunction.
I believe JP’s view is that there has to be “some” affections/emotions for true conversion. It may be the smallest amount.
I don’t know what DG states.
I tend to agree.
Strongs defines repentance as, iirc, Morally to feel compunction.
Discussion