The move towards Plurality of Elders - history, pitfalls
Many Conservative Evangelical churches are now seeing a Biblical call for Plurality of Elders in church leadership.
We are at the end of our constitution Re-Write and anticipate a vote to recommend the new constitution by the Deacon Board in Nov or Dec. Then a 2-4 month education and discussion period, followed by a congregational vote this spring.
As we do this, I have tried to read what I can about church polity. THIS IS NOT A THREAD FOR DEBATE ABOUT WHAT IS BIBLICAL CHURCH POLITY. Instead, I want to discuss what I see as a trend in ALL church polity, regardless of one’s Biblical view.
Many see in Scripture Levels of authority like this:
Level 1 - Presbuteros, episcopos
Level 2 - Diakonos
Level 3 - Flock
See this article. http://eldership.org/resources/murray_elders.html It is a paper by Iain Murray from 1996. It told me something about Presbyterian polity that I hadn’t anticipated.
I had assumed that Presbyterians had a plurality like what we are planning. But see this in Murray’s article:
Thus T F Torrance writes, “…It might be said, then, that what we call ‘elders’ are really ‘elder-deacons’. This falls closely in line with what a great scholar like J. N. D. Kelly has to say about deacons in his commentary, The Pastoral Epistles. (43)”
In this connection it can probably be added that, in point of fact, in healthy gospel churches of independent persuasion, the actual work done by deacons in assisting pastors is the equivalent to the work done by elders in Presbyterian congregations. One Presbyterian writer, taking a ‘comparative view of English and Scottish dissenters’ actually asserts this. Dr. Thomson of Coldstream writes: ‘Two sorts of officers are recognized by both: and what are deacons in the one are just elders in the other. Names are nothing.’
What he’s saying is that everybody, despite their Biblical view of polity, ends up with levels of leadership authority: (“P”=presbyterian name, “B”=baptist)
Level 1 - One-or-Few - P: Minister B: Pastor
Level 2 - Several - P: Ruling-Elders B: Deacons
Level 3 - Many - P: Deacons B: committee members, SS teachers, etc.
Level 4 - Flock.
Compare this with Ignatius, http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0108.htm Chapter 7.
See in Murray’s paper the history of the Haldane brothers and their failed attempt at plurality. And the Brethren movement toward the same Levels above.
- Murray laments the fact that the difference between “minister” and “ruling-elder” leads to a lack of real plurality within Presbyterian churches.
- Many Baptists lament the fact that church leadership is largely in the hands men who are not qualified, gifted, and trained as elders.
- Ed V. is going to come on here pretty quick and remind us that Ignatius and his views on church polity are part of the “early crash and burn” of the church.
So…
I submit to you that:
- Many people think that the 4 level leadership (above) is not Biblical.
- Many of those same people end up with it.
I want to suggest a reason why everyone seems to split elders into two levels. Laziness. The Biblical call for plurality (including unpaid) elders is, IMHO, obvious. So, in effort to obey it, historically, there is a tendency to call the most-qualified and the best-trained instead of waiting to call the truly-qualified and the truly-trained. Thus, the is an obvious difference between the seminary trained Level 1 guy and the non-seminary trained Level 2 guys. And it’s so obvious that everyone sees it, from the Level 1 guy right down to the flock. And therefore, there is a difference in trust from everyone. This makes Level 2 thinking the de facto policy of the church, though it was not planned.
Thoughts?
Who here can give their experience in a transition from Pastor-Deacons to Plural-Edlers-Deacons?
- 81 views
Dan, I see a better pattern as this:
Level 1: elders (working in concert where, internally, one is recognized as “more equal” but externally to the church there is a single voice)
Level 2: flock (submitting to leadership in whom they have vested authority while retaining responsibility for the church)
I do not see deacons as having any particular authority.I understand congregational polity in much the same way I understand the social contract theory of government:
1. God is supreme authority
2. God extends His right to rule to the masses
3. Masses choose leaders in whom authority is vested
4. Masses obey leaders but retain the right to remove and replace leaders
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
[Chip Van Emmerik]…uh, really? If you take Acts 6 to be about deacons overseeing the dispersal of monetary help, then at least you’d see them as having day to day leadership over that ministry, right? So while subject to the Elders, they would be in charge of that ministry?I do not see deacons as having any particular authority
Plus they have qualifications that the flock members don’t have.
We might be talking semantics with what I meant by “authority.”
[Dan Miller]No, I don’t see them having inherent authority in Acts 6. I see them fulfilling their role as deacons assisting the leaders, the elders (or in Acts 6 specifically, the apostles). They are simply following instructions there, not making decisions. And when the problem arises, they do not have any authority to resolve the problem, they go back to the leaders to get a decision. While there are inherent and explicit leadership words used in relation to the pastoral office throughout the New Testament (extending to the very titles used), there is no such correlation regarding deacons.Chip Van Emmerik wrote:
…I do not see deacons as having any particular authority
uh, really? If you take Acts 6 to be about deacons overseeing the dispersal of monetary help, then at least you’d see them as having day to day leadership over that ministry, right? So while subject to the Elders, they would be in charge of that ministry?
Plus they have qualifications that the flock members don’t have.
We might be talking semantics with what I meant by “authority.”
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
Ok, Chip, but my guess is that if a non-Deacon member of the church took it upon himself to start giving out Deacon funds or do whatever the deacon has been asked to do, the elders would step in. The deacon is given some right to act.
Regardless, I’m more interested in the tendency for what you term “Level 1: elders” to become subdivided in practice and then in policy. So let me ask you some questions. Are you an Elder? Paid? Has your church struggled with people viewing Paid Elders as on a different level as Unpaid?
I am not an elder right now. In the past I have served as the only pastor in a small, semi-rural church (paid), one of three elders in a church plant (no one was paid), and a lay elder in a church with a senior pastor (paid) and two deacons who were really tier 2 elders (one was ordained, the other had been in vocational ministry as a youth pastor for over 15 years). I have only been in a situation with true elder leadership in an established church once briefly as an member but not a leader. There several elders were on paid staff and others supported themselves with secular work. I would agree with your assessment that the congregation generally viewed them in two separate classes. The “higher” order were the ones who went to Bible college and did pretty much all of the preaching and most of the large-group adult teaching. The others were men from the membership who had demonstrated wisdom and maturity, but self-identified as less knowledgeable than the others. While I agree in principle with you that elders should be essentially considered equally, I am not sure how you can achieve that when you have such significantly different levels of training.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
[Chip Van Emmerik] …While I agree in principle with you that elders should be essentially considered equally, I am not sure how you can achieve that when you have such significantly different levels of training.Thanks, Chip. I hope everyone sees this last sentence. I think this is the basis for divergence between what many see “in principle” and what they live in the life of the church. The solution, then, is high expectations for training in systematic, Biblical, and practical theology. How high? High enough that you don’t have (in the view of the flock or the elders) significant differences in levels of training.
Chip, you said you served as elder twice. 1) the only elder of a small church and 2) as a lay-elder with two others.
Have you gone through ordination?
Chip,
No, I don’t see them having inherent authority in Acts 6. I see them fulfilling their role as deacons assisting the leaders, the elders (or in Acts 6 specifically, the apostles). They are simply following instructions there, not making decisions. And when the problem arises, they do not have any authority to resolve the problem, they go back to the leaders to get a decision. While there are inherent and explicit leadership words used in relation to the pastoral office throughout the New Testament (extending to the very titles used), there is no such correlation regarding deacons.
Two questions:
- Can you support the bolded part from Acts, or the rest of the NT?
- The qualifications for pastor (paraphrased for simplicity) say, “leading his own household well otherwise, how can he lead the church” (1 Tim 3:4-5) Why do the qualifications for deacons include leading their household well (1 Tim 3:12)?
[Dan Miller]Yes, though it was actually three times. Sorry if that wasn’t clear in the post.Chip Van Emmerik wrote:
…While I agree in principle with you that elders should be essentially considered equally, I am not sure how you can achieve that when you have such significantly different levels of training.Thanks, Chip. I hope everyone sees this last sentence. I think this is the basis for divergence between what many see “in principle” and what they live in the life of the church. The solution, then, is high expectations for training in systematic, Biblical, and practical theology. How high? High enough that you don’t have (in the view of the flock or the elders) significant differences in levels of training.
Chip, you said you served as elder twice. 1) the only elder of a small church and 2) as a lay-elder with two others.
Have you gone through ordination?
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
[Larry]Larry,Chip,
No, I don’t see them having inherent authority in Acts 6. I see them fulfilling their role as deacons assisting the leaders, the elders (or in Acts 6 specifically, the apostles). They are simply following instructions there, not making decisions. And when the problem arises, they do not have any authority to resolve the problem, they go back to the leaders to get a decision. While there are inherent and explicit leadership words used in relation to the pastoral office throughout the New Testament (extending to the very titles used), there is no such correlation regarding deacons.
Two questions:
- Can you support the bolded part from Acts, or the rest of the NT?
- The qualifications for pastor (paraphrased for simplicity) say, “leading his own household well otherwise, how can he lead the church” (1 Tim 3:4-5) Why do the qualifications for deacons include leading their household well (1 Tim 3:12)?
Wouldn’t you agree that all men are responsible before God to lead their homes well? I don’t think this is a unique requirement of the office, but certainly a minimum standard. I also don’t think it has any thing to do with implying leadership responsibility/authority for deacons or pastors in the church but is more about whether they are being faithful to God and providing a good example of the believer.
As for the bolded section you asked about, I don’t think that came out exactly the way I intended. The point is that all the decisions were made by the elders. You do not find the disciples exercising decision-making authority; instead, you simply find them following the directions given by the elders. The elders are the authority; the deacons are the servants (as their title suggests).
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
Wouldn’t you agree that all men are responsible before God to lead their homes well? I don’t think this is a unique requirement of the office, but certainly a minimum standard.
First, the pastoral qualifications are the expected of every believer; they are mature Christianity. However, they are required of pastors. Second, and to the point, household management is not just “being faithful to God and providing a good example.” Paul specifically ties it to the ability to manage the church (v. 5). So if the pastor must manage his own household well as proof that he can manage the church, why do deacons have to manage their own household well?
The point is that all the decisions were made by the elders. You do not find the disciples exercising decision-making authority; instead, you simply find them following the directions given by the elders. The elders are the authority; the deacons are the servants (as their title suggests).
I am not sure this is true. First, the elders didn’t make all decisions. The selection of deacons was left to the people of the church to decide. Secondly, the specific reason was so that the apostles did not have to involve themselves in the day to day financial management. It seems to me more likely that the church selected deacons and gave them the responsibility to carry out the problem they were selected to carry out. So it may well be that the elders gave a broad directive (feed the widows) and left it to the deacons to determine how that was carried out.
You may well be right that there was no decision making involved, though I am not sure the passage would bear that out since we see some widows were getting overlooked and deacons were selected to decide who should get what. But you may be right that there were no decisions being made.. However, I don’t think you have given any biblical evidence for that. At most, you have asserted that elders made all decisions and deacons made none. You haven’t shown that from the Scripture.
[Larry]Chip, I think that Larry is right here. The authority level of Deacons is kinda off-topic, but worth discussing.Wouldn’t you agree that all men are responsible before God to lead their homes well? I don’t think this is a unique requirement of the office, but certainly a minimum standard.
First, the pastoral qualifications are the expected of every believer; they are mature Christianity. However, they are required of pastors. Second, and to the point, household management is not just “being faithful to God and providing a good example.” Paul specifically ties it to the ability to manage the church (v. 5). So if the pastor must manage his own household well as proof that he can manage the church, why do deacons have to manage their own household well?
…
I think that Chip is objecting to “authority” without considering that there can be authority under other authority. Like a babysitter - when mom and dad leave, the babysitter should be “in charge.” She has real authority. But that doesn’t put her on equal level of authority with the parents. So, when little Billy says, “Hey, [babysitter] , can I use the power tools?” She has the authority (right and obligation) to say, “no,” even if the question of power tools never came up in the instructions she got from the parents.
Same with a couple (not elders) who serve the church by being Youth Leaders. They lead, make decisions, even teach. All that is done under the authority of the elders, but in day-to-day choices, the Youth Leaders make them.
*** Hopefully, we can wrap up the “Deacon Authority” discussion soon. I wanted to talk about “Levels of Elders.”
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Larry, does your church have plural Elders? or few?
Dan, have you availed yourself of all the resources from 9Marks regarding eldership? They pretty much cover all the bases on this topic. I have attended their Weekender Conference in DC at Capitol Hill Baptist Church where you sit in on an elders meeting. They do a lot to try to avoid a two-tier eldership and to mix staff and lay elders practically speaking.
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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
I have read a lot of their resources, but probably not all. If you have recommendations for this topic, even if only keywords to search on 9Marks, I’d appreciate it.
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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)
Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA
Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University
I’ve heard Dever talk about his status as first among equals, but he loses elder votes all the time. He really believes in plurality of elders, but that practically he will have more influence over the elders simply by being the most regular preacher of the Word on Sunday mornings. That’s going to shape the congregation and the elders more. Technically, he has just one vote on the elder board. But power is not the same as influence.
Discussion