marriage counseling
Forum category
theres’ no “counseling” category, so maybe this goes here?
i’m getting into marriage counseling, and it’s making me rethink some things or just search for a deeper understanding of this.
I used to be a die-hard, save-the-marriage-at-any-costs person. God hates divorce, and i’d never really experienced the intricacies marriage or seen into really horrible marriages.
now that that’s changed over the past few years, and I have some questions.
is this paradigm true: our marriage covenant between a man and woman is an expression (or parallel) to God’s salvation covenant with believers. Even when we are unfaithful God is faithful to us. So when a spouse is unfaithful (i mean, for example, one spouse is an unbeliever, continuously adulerous, alcoholic, as a man doesnt provide, slightly abusive) the Christian spouse is to be faithful. Can live seperately if needed for safety, but still should remain legally married. Save the marriage, be the faithful one, like God is faithful to us…
is that the true paradigm for marriage?
I need to know.
i’m getting into marriage counseling, and it’s making me rethink some things or just search for a deeper understanding of this.
I used to be a die-hard, save-the-marriage-at-any-costs person. God hates divorce, and i’d never really experienced the intricacies marriage or seen into really horrible marriages.
now that that’s changed over the past few years, and I have some questions.
is this paradigm true: our marriage covenant between a man and woman is an expression (or parallel) to God’s salvation covenant with believers. Even when we are unfaithful God is faithful to us. So when a spouse is unfaithful (i mean, for example, one spouse is an unbeliever, continuously adulerous, alcoholic, as a man doesnt provide, slightly abusive) the Christian spouse is to be faithful. Can live seperately if needed for safety, but still should remain legally married. Save the marriage, be the faithful one, like God is faithful to us…
is that the true paradigm for marriage?
I need to know.
Sorry Anne, you are headed in the wrong direction. There is no biblical support for your premise. A couple should either be married and living together or divorce. 1 Cor. 7 prohibits seperation. If a husband will not be a husband (Ex 21:10-11 is suggestive here) then the wife can, and should, divorce him. You have raised a myriad of issues and I would point you to Jay Adams’ Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage in the Bible as the best information on all this.
Donn R Arms
Anne, IMO I think we need to take a more relaxed position on this (as I believe Jesus did, although others will suggest the opposite). I also think that the issue is certainly confusing and we must respect a variety of viewpoints. It is far from black and white.
There is no correlation between a strict position and divorce rate. Baptists, for example, have led the stats with divorce while liberal Jews were least likely to get divorced (those stats are from the 80’s, so things may have changed).
Jay Adams’ book titlted, “Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage” sets forth a simple paradigm. I Cor. 7 is talking about divorce, because the woman who left her husband is called “unmarried” (let her remain “unmarried” or else be reconciled to her husband).
Keeping a marriage together for the sake of the kids is a very good idea, but not when there is physical, sexual, or drug abuse. An unhappy (but non-violent) marriage is better for kids than divorce.
It is interesting that the woman in I Cor. 7 is encouraged to stay with her husband, but if she leaves, the text does NOT say that the church should discipline her (as would be the case if this were sin). The silence about discipline over this is an important cue.
I am working on a book correlating Jesus’ teachings with the Torah; I have a chapter on this. If you want it as an attachment, let me know and I’ll email it to you.
Stricter is not always better.
There is no correlation between a strict position and divorce rate. Baptists, for example, have led the stats with divorce while liberal Jews were least likely to get divorced (those stats are from the 80’s, so things may have changed).
Jay Adams’ book titlted, “Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage” sets forth a simple paradigm. I Cor. 7 is talking about divorce, because the woman who left her husband is called “unmarried” (let her remain “unmarried” or else be reconciled to her husband).
Keeping a marriage together for the sake of the kids is a very good idea, but not when there is physical, sexual, or drug abuse. An unhappy (but non-violent) marriage is better for kids than divorce.
It is interesting that the woman in I Cor. 7 is encouraged to stay with her husband, but if she leaves, the text does NOT say that the church should discipline her (as would be the case if this were sin). The silence about discipline over this is an important cue.
I am working on a book correlating Jesus’ teachings with the Torah; I have a chapter on this. If you want it as an attachment, let me know and I’ll email it to you.
Stricter is not always better.
"The Midrash Detective"
I am probably walking into a hornet’s nest with this response. But, the best response I can provide is for you to go and talk with your Pastor. He is supposed to be the one whom you can discuss matters such as this with and is to provide the proper guidance through God’s word and prayer. This is a dangerous topic to just be thrown on to a board such as this and receive a potential plethora of opinions on, especially without anyone knowing all of the facts and the potential dangers which may exist in your specific situation. Christ made a specific statement about divorce in Mat 5:32, Mat 19:8-9. But, again, please go and discuss this matter with your Pastor, discussing all of the facts, fears and circumstances which currently exist for you.
thanks for all the advice; it’s been on my mind all day.
James, i’ve been thinking of this too; our church has three pastors and Vitaliy (husband) is one, and we certainly discuss this, but the other two pastors we’ve not really talked to about this yet b/c it just came up and we don’t have regular meetings; i think we need to come to a consensus about this particular case. although what i described is pretty common here.
I wish i could get that Jay Adams book here, aha, i will ask among my american friends; it’s probably here somewhere. i have a lot of questions now that I’ve been mulling this over.
James, i’ve been thinking of this too; our church has three pastors and Vitaliy (husband) is one, and we certainly discuss this, but the other two pastors we’ve not really talked to about this yet b/c it just came up and we don’t have regular meetings; i think we need to come to a consensus about this particular case. although what i described is pretty common here.
I wish i could get that Jay Adams book here, aha, i will ask among my american friends; it’s probably here somewhere. i have a lot of questions now that I’ve been mulling this over.
Anne, I am going to be a minority on this one, or at least a minority of those who respond on here. I am probably where you used to be. (did I read you right that you have changed your perspective from the die-hard to something else?) Unfortunately, this topic is so large that I don’t think a forum is a good place to discuss, or at least such a broad category. Perhaps a smaller chunk of it, but then you run into the problem of not seeing the whole picture.
I think at the outset of your discussion with your husband you should define what you mean by divorce and what you mean by separation. Then while going through passages make sure you mark them as such. In addition, I think it is important to start from the beginning and work forward, rather than start at passages like Matthew 5/19 or I Cor 7 and work backwards.
In addition to the ‘main’ passages on marriage/divorce/remarriage I would work through Matthew 18:21-35. Obviously it is not a slam dunk text on no-divorce, but it should make one ask why they are pursuing a divorce. One should ask, how great is God’s love and forgiveness? Is whatever my spouse has done greater than what I have done to God? Can one honestly read that and then still pursue a divorce?
I would also do some serious study on Deut 24:1ff. (I am just stating this to show that there are other interpretations other than one of the standard ones, not to debate it.) Does it have to mean that divorce is ok if it meets certain guidelines? Or can it simply be put here to protect the innocent from rampant sin? In addition, is divorce the main point of that passage to begin with? Also, why would she have been defiled?
Anyways, just a few thoughts. Hope it helps.
…I think it is good to know what you believe, but also to remember that there are much smarter men and women than you or I who will believe different than us which should make us not make it a matter of separation.
I think at the outset of your discussion with your husband you should define what you mean by divorce and what you mean by separation. Then while going through passages make sure you mark them as such. In addition, I think it is important to start from the beginning and work forward, rather than start at passages like Matthew 5/19 or I Cor 7 and work backwards.
In addition to the ‘main’ passages on marriage/divorce/remarriage I would work through Matthew 18:21-35. Obviously it is not a slam dunk text on no-divorce, but it should make one ask why they are pursuing a divorce. One should ask, how great is God’s love and forgiveness? Is whatever my spouse has done greater than what I have done to God? Can one honestly read that and then still pursue a divorce?
I would also do some serious study on Deut 24:1ff. (I am just stating this to show that there are other interpretations other than one of the standard ones, not to debate it.) Does it have to mean that divorce is ok if it meets certain guidelines? Or can it simply be put here to protect the innocent from rampant sin? In addition, is divorce the main point of that passage to begin with? Also, why would she have been defiled?
Anyways, just a few thoughts. Hope it helps.
…I think it is good to know what you believe, but also to remember that there are much smarter men and women than you or I who will believe different than us which should make us not make it a matter of separation.
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