Creation vs evolution: how does it relate to the Gospel?
Hello everyone, Roddy Bullock here. I’m new to this forum, so forgive me if I’m not posting correctly.
My passion for the Gospel is channeled to the evolution/creation debate. I have studied and rejected evolution as an explanation for new life forms (including humans) and embrace the Genesis account of creation. Specifically, my study has shown that the material evidence on earth provides ample evidence with which to reject natural selection as explaining human beings and to reasonably believe human beings are created by God in His image. And, importantly, my position is that the truth of this topic is not an academic question; it goes to the heart of the Gospel.
I’m looking for kindred spirits. I’m looking for someone to bounce ideas off of, critique arguments, and review papers on this topic. Is anyone else interested in this topic? Is there a better forum that I should focus on?
Thank you to all!
Roddy Bullock
Cincinnati, OH
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Welcome Roddy! I think you will find a lot of discussion about creation/evolution and its impact on the gospel if you search the archives. Several here have read books on the subject/published articles and would probably comment. I believe most (all?) here are pretty settled on creationism. Just start throwing some comments or questions out and see what interaction you get. Look forward to your insights!
Are you saying Roddy that belief in creation is necessary for salvation?
Great question. Actually, I’m still forming a belief and trying to sort out a theological position.
I don’t think belief in creation is necessary to salvation. I would put this in the category of virtually every other orthodox belief, such as the virgin birth, the Trinity, etc. Certainly a person can be saved without a correct belief on these truths (most of us were!).
But is seems to me that the theological necessity of a first, true, historical Adam is a necessity for the full Gospel message. My thinking is centered around the theological necessity of a human created in God’s image, the fall, and the second Adam. I’m wondering if there is theological coherency if, for example, naturalistic evolution is true and there was no literal first human named Adam.
That’s where I am today. I welcome thoughts!
Roddy
Roddy Bullock
Thank you, Josh. I do look forward to the discussion. I’m still trying figure out the “lay of the land” here. But I’ll get it soon enough!
Roddy
Roddy Bullock
Rev 14:6-7, “Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. And he said with a loud voice, ‘Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.’”
[Roddy M]When Paul preached the gospel in Athens, he proclaimed God as the Creator:I don’t think belief in creation is necessary to salvation. I would put this in the category of virtually every other orthodox belief, such as the virgin birth, the Trinity, etc. Certainly a person can be saved without a correct belief on these truths (most of us were!).
Roddy
Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Someone who is presented the truth of God as Creator in an evangelistic witness and rejects that truth is not where he needs to be in order to be saved.
The details may not be…
[Mark_Smith]The details may not be…
Jesus taught that people who will not believe Moses would not believe His words.
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Jesus directly affirmed Moses’ testimony to the creation of mankind at the beginning by God as male and female:
Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
A person who will not accept what Moses said about God’s creating Adam and Eve at the beginning as male and female is incapable of believing Jesus’ words properly.
Similarly, Jesus said,
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Such people remain guilty of core human sinfulness against God of rejecting Him as the Creator:
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rejection of biblical testimony to God’s direct creation of mankind renders a person incapable of true repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ.
Every major canonical section of the NT testifies to the central importance of belief in God as the Creator (Matt. 19; Acts 14, 17; Rom. 1; Rev. 4, 14; etc.). Such saving belief accepts what Jesus taught about God’s making at the beginning mankind as male and female (Matt. 19).
Someone who denies that truth cannot and will not be saved.
“Believe the writings”… you want that to mean YOUR interpretation of those writings… 2 different things. My point is orthodoxy has to have room for interpretation of the writings about creation.
And I’m not talking about kooky interpretations. I mean ones that have been around for 500 years. Or are totally reasonable given linguistics and such.
The Bible is wonderful I love it. I believe it. I study it. But as good as the Bible is and the detail it provides about creation, it leaves out a lot. For example, these things are not mentioned:
1- Neanderthals or other “similar to human” apes.
2- Dinosaurs (spare me the Leviathan and Behemoth, you know as well as I do the Bible is silent ab.out dinosaurs, but the fossil record is extensive).
3- Apparent age… long discussion we’ve had many times here at SI. But how do the juxtapose the standard interpretation of Creation in the Bible with the, in my scientific opinion, reliable measurements of age?
4- Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation is not mentioned in the Bible. Scientists say they know what it is…
5- Here’s a fun one you might not have heard of, Baryonic Acoustic Oscillations. The measured bubble size that galaxies reside on, demonstrating the time since expansion in the early universe. Great observation and great measurement. Where’s that at in your creation story?
On and On…
Grace brothers.
[Mark_Smith]No, I am not wanting anything to mean “my interpretation.” There is only one possible correct understanding to what Jesus said—God made mankind at the beginning male and female. They did not evolve period to become male and female at some later point; they were male and female from the very beginning, when He created Adam and Eve. Anybody who does not believe what Jesus said about that truth denies the plain statement of Scripture. This is not a question of “grace.” Either you believe what Jesus said or you do not.“Believe the writings”… you want that to mean YOUR interpretation of those writings… 2 different things. My point is orthodoxy has to have room for interpretation of the writings about creation.
And I’m not talking about kooky interpretations. I mean ones that have been around for 500 years. Or are totally reasonable given linguistics and such.
Thank you, Craig. Very interesting! This verse is an example of the kind of scripture links that help me form a coherent position. In my own study I am finding that “the gospel” is not easy to pin down in one concise form. But certainly here it is connected with worship of the creator God. Thanks again!
Roddy Bullock
RajeshG: I have also been intrigued by Paul’s address in Athens, and how he begins his proclamation by explicitly identifying the living God as the creator. Paul continues to state that “from one man he made every nation of men,” which is another connection to a literal, historical Adam. Thanks for the comment!
Roddy Bullock
Grace, yes! I agree. In my opinion, it is important that the Church unambiguously affirm the fact of creation of the first human being by God in His image. That seems to be necessary for a coherent gospel message. Beyond that, many, many details can be argued, but with much grace, as you point out.
Roddy Bullock
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