Correcting internet... immorality?
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I have a question and I hope you all will give me your perspective. I see a ‘new’ wrinkle in church polity that social networking sites have had a hand in creating, and that is a look into someone’s interior/private life that otherwise one would not be privy to because there isn’t a ‘close’ relationship in the real world. So- when a Sunday School teacher, youth leader/worker, deacon, a respected lay person …. are on Facebook, for instance, becoming fans of pages that are perverse, using *** as a substitute for obscenities,or making off color comments and discussing how much they liked such-and-such R-rated movie (rated such for sexual situations, full/partial nudity, and language)- what is the proper response?
Say “It’s none of my business”? Employ Matthew 18? Gal. 6:1? Go to the pastor/elders with the information? Do you think a person engaged in this kind of behavior should be immediately removed or allowed to remain in their post while they are counseled/corrected?
And if you are a lay person, how would you want to see church leadership handle this situation?
Say “It’s none of my business”? Employ Matthew 18? Gal. 6:1? Go to the pastor/elders with the information? Do you think a person engaged in this kind of behavior should be immediately removed or allowed to remain in their post while they are counseled/corrected?
And if you are a lay person, how would you want to see church leadership handle this situation?
- 1 view
I’ve done all of those things. Often it’s teenagers or young adults, so we (wife and I) contact parents or the people directly (depending on age, gender, and overall maturity). Sometimes I’ll say something to a person in front of their parents and ask them why they posted __________ on Facebook. I don’t do that to embarrass, but to point out that Facebook isn’t a personal diary and putting stuff on the internet conveys a lot about the person who posted it. I also do that so that the parents are aware, for example, that their son is obsessed with Japanese anime (to pick an example out of the air).
If it was a matter of a church leader - SS teacher is the example that you used, I think - I would contact the Pastor, advise him of my concerns, then confront them personally. When I’m done, I’ll touch base with Pastor and let him know how it went, esp. if they didn’t respond well to the ‘correction’. Typically, I say something like “Hey, I saw ____________________ on your Facebook page” and then go from there depending on your relationship and what was posted. If it’s your pastor, then I think you have to contact one of the elders / deacons first and see what they’d say.
It can be very tricky to handle this, so a lot of times I’ll kick it around with my wife first to see what she thinks. Then I’ll usually either go to the person or possibly ask for one specific elder’s opinion who knows me well and has been in the church for a long time, so he knows everyone else as well.
If it was a matter of a church leader - SS teacher is the example that you used, I think - I would contact the Pastor, advise him of my concerns, then confront them personally. When I’m done, I’ll touch base with Pastor and let him know how it went, esp. if they didn’t respond well to the ‘correction’. Typically, I say something like “Hey, I saw ____________________ on your Facebook page” and then go from there depending on your relationship and what was posted. If it’s your pastor, then I think you have to contact one of the elders / deacons first and see what they’d say.
It can be very tricky to handle this, so a lot of times I’ll kick it around with my wife first to see what she thinks. Then I’ll usually either go to the person or possibly ask for one specific elder’s opinion who knows me well and has been in the church for a long time, so he knows everyone else as well.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
The situation is more complex for us. We have a number of young adults who have been attending our church and a Bible study for awhile. I am convinced several do not know Christ. Their occasional obscenities and hints as to their sex lives or drunkeness occasionally appear on Facebook.
Of course, these issues are taught in our church and in the Bible study from time to time. These are as yet non-believers who feel drawn toward our church and perhaps toward Christ for reasons we must assume involve the work of the Spirit (we have little else to offer, except friendship). We do not wish to quench the work of the Spirit by over-reacting. We recognize the opportunity to confront sin and thus speak of Christ. But I know it’s distressing to some in the congregation to have this kind of stuff show up on their Facebook page because they are friends (in the Facebook sense I mean here).
But, this is part of ministry. It puts us in contact with the world.
I might add that we are not seeker-sensitive, nor one of the hoopla churches that would draw them in, but they’re here. So much for the “Your church can’t reach people unless you do X” crowd.
Of course, these issues are taught in our church and in the Bible study from time to time. These are as yet non-believers who feel drawn toward our church and perhaps toward Christ for reasons we must assume involve the work of the Spirit (we have little else to offer, except friendship). We do not wish to quench the work of the Spirit by over-reacting. We recognize the opportunity to confront sin and thus speak of Christ. But I know it’s distressing to some in the congregation to have this kind of stuff show up on their Facebook page because they are friends (in the Facebook sense I mean here).
But, this is part of ministry. It puts us in contact with the world.
I might add that we are not seeker-sensitive, nor one of the hoopla churches that would draw them in, but they’re here. So much for the “Your church can’t reach people unless you do X” crowd.
I think what makes it ‘sticky’ is that quite often the people we are ‘friends’ with on FB are more like acquaintances IRL. To approach someone because they are publicly admitting drunkenness but yet you don’t have a ‘real life’ relationship with them… I agree, Bro. Durning, that there are a few folks that whose unrepentant lifestyle seems to indicate that they do not have a regenerate heart, and I would just be in prayer for them, and use as much wisdom and discretion possible to lead them to Christ. Those who I believe to be saved but are misguided or backslidden or ignorant… my dh and I have a mentioned to a couple of young adults that their FB conduct isn’t a very good example (and that was being charitable), and they’ve apologized and then ‘unfriended’ us. Okey-dokey. Soooo…. Mtt. 18 part 2?
But when it comes to people in positions of influence/authority, like a teacher or deacon- I wonder if we should bypass Mtt. 18 and go to the elders, or start the Mtt. 18/Gal. 6 process… but then if someone is that unashamed of their conduct, as a parent I’d want that person removed as a teacher/worker asap. If the YP, for instance, was inviting older teens and young adults to their house to watch movies that are totally immoral or at least highly questionable… and you know this because the kids are posting on FB about how they spent their weekend…
It isn’t as if any of this is new- I mean, I saw my first R-rated movie during a sleepover at a youth worker’s house. They had HBO- and oh boy- you were the bee’s knees in 1982 if you had HBO. We saw An Officer and a Gentleman. Oy vey. But none of us kids talked about it, so no one knew. Now kids talk to each other online as if the conversation is private, and it gives folks an unexpected glimpse of the private lives of others, so we are aware of things going on that ought not so to be. But how to deal with that knowledge can be confusing.
That’s why I’m asking those in leadership how they’d want their congregation to handle it. More than ever the opportunities for good and evil that modern technologies present make me ever more cautious about how I approach these situations.
But when it comes to people in positions of influence/authority, like a teacher or deacon- I wonder if we should bypass Mtt. 18 and go to the elders, or start the Mtt. 18/Gal. 6 process… but then if someone is that unashamed of their conduct, as a parent I’d want that person removed as a teacher/worker asap. If the YP, for instance, was inviting older teens and young adults to their house to watch movies that are totally immoral or at least highly questionable… and you know this because the kids are posting on FB about how they spent their weekend…
It isn’t as if any of this is new- I mean, I saw my first R-rated movie during a sleepover at a youth worker’s house. They had HBO- and oh boy- you were the bee’s knees in 1982 if you had HBO. We saw An Officer and a Gentleman. Oy vey. But none of us kids talked about it, so no one knew. Now kids talk to each other online as if the conversation is private, and it gives folks an unexpected glimpse of the private lives of others, so we are aware of things going on that ought not so to be. But how to deal with that knowledge can be confusing.
That’s why I’m asking those in leadership how they’d want their congregation to handle it. More than ever the opportunities for good and evil that modern technologies present make me ever more cautious about how I approach these situations.
Susan,
Thanks for your question. I am surprised at how many topics I am trying to resolve in my own mind before they happen under my direction at my new church. I do believe that we must treat unbelievers like unbelievers, and not require them to “put on” Christian principles. In that aspect I agree with Mike’s post above. I also agree that when we work with the world we will get our hands dirty. I head a guy once say, “Instead of being isolated from the World, we need to become insulated with the Word.” (See my post under Leadership, as I would be interested in your response to my question.)
However, I believe that you enter a different level when you are speaking about those in leadership. We are held to a higher standard, as much as some of us don’t like it. I believe that once these things become public (ie Facebook, twitter, youtube, blogs, etc), they should be dealt with. Yet, I guess I would deal with them in differing ways. For instance, if you are speaking about a youth sponsor, than the Pastor and/or Youth Pastor should sit down with the couple and confront them on why they felt it was “okay” to allow teens within the church to view a movies that contained any form of nudity. Obviously they would need to be confronted about the fact that such viewing is sin, and depending upon their response, a course of action would need to be established….
Thanks for your question. I am surprised at how many topics I am trying to resolve in my own mind before they happen under my direction at my new church. I do believe that we must treat unbelievers like unbelievers, and not require them to “put on” Christian principles. In that aspect I agree with Mike’s post above. I also agree that when we work with the world we will get our hands dirty. I head a guy once say, “Instead of being isolated from the World, we need to become insulated with the Word.” (See my post under Leadership, as I would be interested in your response to my question.)
However, I believe that you enter a different level when you are speaking about those in leadership. We are held to a higher standard, as much as some of us don’t like it. I believe that once these things become public (ie Facebook, twitter, youtube, blogs, etc), they should be dealt with. Yet, I guess I would deal with them in differing ways. For instance, if you are speaking about a youth sponsor, than the Pastor and/or Youth Pastor should sit down with the couple and confront them on why they felt it was “okay” to allow teens within the church to view a movies that contained any form of nudity. Obviously they would need to be confronted about the fact that such viewing is sin, and depending upon their response, a course of action would need to be established….
- If they responded positively, then I think a meeting between the P / YP and the Youth Sponsor and the Parents and Teens of those involved should be held, with the Youth Sponsors explaining that they made a mistake, and seeking the parents/teen forgiveness.
- If they respond negatively, then they should be removed from leadership, and the meeting should take place without them to explain to the parents/teens what happened.
- If it is a Pastor who is doing this, then an Elder/Deacon needs to be contacted, and you and the Elder/Deacon need to go and talk to the Pastor to confirm the details. If it is proven true, the Pastor would need to repent and make public confession to the church.
Serving the Savior, Pastor Wes Helfenbein 2 Cor. 5:17
Just a note of warning to all.
We have found that there are some people who confuse the virtual and real world in this way: unfriending them in Facebook or MySpace is to them tantamount to declaring you’re not their friend in the real world.
Therefore, in situations such as we are discussing, be cautious about simply “unfriending” someone in an attempt to put the problem out of mind. You may send a message you did not intend.
We have found that there are some people who confuse the virtual and real world in this way: unfriending them in Facebook or MySpace is to them tantamount to declaring you’re not their friend in the real world.
Therefore, in situations such as we are discussing, be cautious about simply “unfriending” someone in an attempt to put the problem out of mind. You may send a message you did not intend.
That is a good point Mike. I also think Susan makes some good points.
The only caveat that I would put on this discussion is that I, as a pastor, cannot control what my FB friends post. I have many unsaved and unchurched people on my friends list. Like Pastor Wesh said we cannot expect the world to act like the saved. I had one friend suggest to me that I shouldnt be friends with so many lost people. The problem is I don’t see how I am going to build redemptive relationships without it. Like someone said, dealing with lost people does get messy.
The only caveat that I would put on this discussion is that I, as a pastor, cannot control what my FB friends post. I have many unsaved and unchurched people on my friends list. Like Pastor Wesh said we cannot expect the world to act like the saved. I had one friend suggest to me that I shouldnt be friends with so many lost people. The problem is I don’t see how I am going to build redemptive relationships without it. Like someone said, dealing with lost people does get messy.
Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church
I’ve recently seen a bout of unfriending, where several people posted that anyone that remained friends with ___ would be unfriended by them because this person had done some things that were unethical/immoral. I understand if you have firsthand knowledge and you want to make that decision for yourself or your family- but IMO this is an inappropriate way to use FB- many of the people who saw those posts had no idea what was going on- why drag dozens of people into something that doesn’t involve them directly? There is a proper way to handle someone who is a rebellious brother or a lost person trying to make trouble- but I don’t think publishing their wrongs on FB and demanding others that others disfellowship them is anywhere near Scriptural principle on the subject.
My dh and I have been discussing whether or not to allow our 13 yob on FB, so we’ve really been hashing out all of the aspects of social networking- how it can be fun and even a blessing, but also how it can be abused and what we can do about it.
I never understood the idea that Christians shouldn’t befriend the lost- maybe the result of years of thinking that handing someone a Gospel tract or sticking some literature in the door was actually ‘witnessing’. Sounds more like wimping out to me- no personal human contact, do your duty and call it a day. Yuck. One doesn’t have to ‘bond’ with lost folks in a sense that violates 2 Cor. 6:14 in order to create a sense of caring and trust.
My dh and I have been discussing whether or not to allow our 13 yob on FB, so we’ve really been hashing out all of the aspects of social networking- how it can be fun and even a blessing, but also how it can be abused and what we can do about it.
I never understood the idea that Christians shouldn’t befriend the lost- maybe the result of years of thinking that handing someone a Gospel tract or sticking some literature in the door was actually ‘witnessing’. Sounds more like wimping out to me- no personal human contact, do your duty and call it a day. Yuck. One doesn’t have to ‘bond’ with lost folks in a sense that violates 2 Cor. 6:14 in order to create a sense of caring and trust.
Susan,
We have our daughter on FB. How we have handled it is that we have her password, we check her content, etc. In fact, all of us have each others password and can go to each others FB at anytime. There is still room for abuse but she has a good heart and has been using it the same way that we have. The biggest suprise danger has been getting “friend requests” from people we none of us have any connection with. None of us accept those. So in that sense, she has to ask if she can send a request or receive one.
We have our daughter on FB. How we have handled it is that we have her password, we check her content, etc. In fact, all of us have each others password and can go to each others FB at anytime. There is still room for abuse but she has a good heart and has been using it the same way that we have. The biggest suprise danger has been getting “friend requests” from people we none of us have any connection with. None of us accept those. So in that sense, she has to ask if she can send a request or receive one.
Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church
Well, here we are embroiled in one such controversy now. A regular attender (talking years) publcly ridicules church leadership for soemthing. Unbelievers become involved. Oh well.
I like the quote pastorwesh gave “Instead of being isolated from the World, we need to become insulated with the Word.” I also have some “friends” that are not Christian, but I often inflect God’s word on a situation they may be in. When Christian friends look at the status comments of some of my unchurched “friends” they may be offended, but I continue to have them as “friends” so I have a chance to share the message any way I can. It may just take a little seed of the Word to change someone for life.
For instance, I have a great-nephew who is a former drug user. I often share passages of scripture that will help him get through another day. One of his status comments indicated that he felt God could never forgive him for all that he has done. I wrote back the story of the prodigal son, stating at the end that the Father is just waiting for him to take ONE step in His direction and he will come running to meet him more than halfway.
If I had “unfriended” him to isolate my Christian friends from his sometimes rude language, I would not have had the chance discuss who God really is with him.
As far as Church leadership speaking or acting offensively on Facebook, I think they should be held accountable. For example, it would be wrong for a youth leader to rave about something that could lead some of his students down the wrong path. The leader should be asked directly about the offense for the sake of the youth.
Pastor Mike, I know the situation that you are talking about and I would have to agree with the church leadership on that one. Although we do not know who is saved and who is not, our actions speak louder than words. If someone is blatantly speaking out against God and trumpeting admiration for Satan, he most likely is not saved and should not be put on a pedestal, even after his death. Yes, it is possible that he got saved in the last few seconds of his life, but it is highly unlikely. And even if he did, his life should not be admired because it was more Satanic than Godly.
Facebook can be a tool to be used for God if we take care to use it properly. Even when discussing God and His word we have to be careful not to act high and mighty about it. We don’t want to act like we are better than the unchurched because in essence we are all sinners in need of a savior. The only difference between us and them is that we have accepted Christ’s death on the cross as payment for our sins and the unchurched have yet to accept Him. Hopefully, through careful discussions, we can add more to the kingdom of God.
In His Grip,
Sandy A
For instance, I have a great-nephew who is a former drug user. I often share passages of scripture that will help him get through another day. One of his status comments indicated that he felt God could never forgive him for all that he has done. I wrote back the story of the prodigal son, stating at the end that the Father is just waiting for him to take ONE step in His direction and he will come running to meet him more than halfway.
If I had “unfriended” him to isolate my Christian friends from his sometimes rude language, I would not have had the chance discuss who God really is with him.
As far as Church leadership speaking or acting offensively on Facebook, I think they should be held accountable. For example, it would be wrong for a youth leader to rave about something that could lead some of his students down the wrong path. The leader should be asked directly about the offense for the sake of the youth.
Pastor Mike, I know the situation that you are talking about and I would have to agree with the church leadership on that one. Although we do not know who is saved and who is not, our actions speak louder than words. If someone is blatantly speaking out against God and trumpeting admiration for Satan, he most likely is not saved and should not be put on a pedestal, even after his death. Yes, it is possible that he got saved in the last few seconds of his life, but it is highly unlikely. And even if he did, his life should not be admired because it was more Satanic than Godly.
Facebook can be a tool to be used for God if we take care to use it properly. Even when discussing God and His word we have to be careful not to act high and mighty about it. We don’t want to act like we are better than the unchurched because in essence we are all sinners in need of a savior. The only difference between us and them is that we have accepted Christ’s death on the cross as payment for our sins and the unchurched have yet to accept Him. Hopefully, through careful discussions, we can add more to the kingdom of God.
In His Grip,
Sandy A
[Mike Durning] Well, here we are embroiled in one such controversy now. A regular attender (talking years) publcly ridicules church leadership for soemthing. Unbelievers become involved. Oh well.It’s a bit exasperating, because it’s seems a difficult task to address such issues from the pulpit without sounding like you are dictating the terms of someone’s personal private life. But FB isn’t really all that private, and even if someone is sitting in bed in their PJ’s with a laptop, their actions on the internet are public actions. And I don’t know how preachers think and feel about addressing specific topics from the pulpit- do you just keep preaching the Word and leave the conviction up to the Holy Spirit, or do you ‘point out’ problems that you see and give some Biblical guidelines to help people make better choices?
I’ve read all the replies to this post and a small voice within me cautions about addressing symptoms when truly burdened nearby Christians ought to be able to call sin “sin”. You see, much of what’s done on Facebook etc. are warned against and consequences both mental and spiritual are taught… in scripture, at least to my satisfaction, anyhow. I would ask if our shaking a finger with “shame…shame” ought to be upgraded to sense the younger generation coming up and how they will act.
Remember that EVIL communication is the next step past IDLE communication.
I have been a corporate programmer since before there were hard drives and I know well what quicksand technology can become. But our churches (selfishly, I think) apply their budgets and desires toward technology for administrative purposes and never WARN about the ways that Satan uses it. How about your folks having their own church social network they can then use to reach out to the unsaved?
I have a thought… how do you think it would work to have some short skits for your youth that would show the ‘end of the road’ of those youth that dishonor the technology gift God has given to us?
Remember that EVIL communication is the next step past IDLE communication.
I have been a corporate programmer since before there were hard drives and I know well what quicksand technology can become. But our churches (selfishly, I think) apply their budgets and desires toward technology for administrative purposes and never WARN about the ways that Satan uses it. How about your folks having their own church social network they can then use to reach out to the unsaved?
I have a thought… how do you think it would work to have some short skits for your youth that would show the ‘end of the road’ of those youth that dishonor the technology gift God has given to us?
Jim 'Gramps' Curtis Hillsboro OH USA EvangelismGold.com Ps 71:18 Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come. .
While today’s youth are growing up with this technology as an integral part of their daily lives, they aren’t the only or even the worst offenders on the internet, ifn’ you ask me.
When Biblical principles of proper communications and companionship are taught, how to use cell phones, the internet, and the back fence are covered. Technology IMO isn’t the problem- it is still the hearts of men that seek to playing tiddlywinks with evil instead of fleeing from it. So I’m wondering about the wisdom of messages focusing on how to use the internet, especially since a significant number of most congregations are still not connecting regularly online. It reminds me of how messages in my youth about modesty always seemed to focus on specific fashions (I remember a sermon on the rebellious nature of blue jean jackets) but really- are the principles of modesty best taught by addressing specific styles, which come and go every few years? Or by teaching the principles of modest behavior and appearance and letting people work out the specifics themselves?
When Biblical principles of proper communications and companionship are taught, how to use cell phones, the internet, and the back fence are covered. Technology IMO isn’t the problem- it is still the hearts of men that seek to playing tiddlywinks with evil instead of fleeing from it. So I’m wondering about the wisdom of messages focusing on how to use the internet, especially since a significant number of most congregations are still not connecting regularly online. It reminds me of how messages in my youth about modesty always seemed to focus on specific fashions (I remember a sermon on the rebellious nature of blue jean jackets) but really- are the principles of modesty best taught by addressing specific styles, which come and go every few years? Or by teaching the principles of modest behavior and appearance and letting people work out the specifics themselves?
[Susan R] Or by teaching the principles of modest behavior and appearance and letting people work out the specifics themselves?But you see, that’s the problem. Many fundamental church leaders are really uncomfortable with (if not downright hostile to) the idea of “letting people work out the specifics themselves,” because then they might make choices that go against the personal conviction of the preacher/teacher, or the party line of the church/organization, even if the choices made clearly meet scriptural requirements/standards.
The problem appears on both sides though. From what I have seen of fundamental believers, there are often those that don’t want to have to understand enough to make hard decisions, and want those decisions made for them, vs. those who really want to search the scriptures, study and understand the principles, and then consequently want to use their maturity to make the right decisions.
Unfortunately, it seems there is no shortage of preachers who like having the congregation depend on them for every decision, and practically discourage any serious study on one’s own (and that applies double to group study that might not include a church leader) apart from personal devotions.
Dave Barnhart
Bro. Dave- do you think that the crux of the matter is who we are truly accountable to? I mean, we are accountable to different people for different reasons, and believers are also accountable to and for each other in a limited fashion… but when it comes down to the minutiae of daily living (not that the details are trivial), we are ultimately accountable to God. I can’t lean on someone else’s understanding when it comes to decisions about what to read or watch or wear…. and if I’m spiritually and intellectually lazy, it isn’t someone else’s responsibility to wipe my chin. Of course, I’m not talking about those who are growing spiritually and request guidance- but even then I think the one doing the counseling needs to be careful about saying “My way is the right way” and instead encourage those they are discipling to study and pray on their own. For example, when someone asks me why I do or don’t do something, I don’t give them my conclusions up front, but I tell them the questions that I ask myself in order to make that decision. If someone wants me to make a decision for them, then they are out of luck, because I can’t cross that line in good conscience.
Which is probably why I am so averse to someone attempting to force their personal opinion down my throat as if it were “Thus sayeth the Lord”. That and the fact that over the years I’ve met WAY too many Christians who said “I’ll never have a tv/let my wife work/watch a movie/go to a sports event/wear pants/color my hair” and then a year later they are doing all of the above. If it really were “Thus sayeth the Lord” then a slight breeze wouldn’t have been able to blow them so far off the track.
Which is probably why I am so averse to someone attempting to force their personal opinion down my throat as if it were “Thus sayeth the Lord”. That and the fact that over the years I’ve met WAY too many Christians who said “I’ll never have a tv/let my wife work/watch a movie/go to a sports event/wear pants/color my hair” and then a year later they are doing all of the above. If it really were “Thus sayeth the Lord” then a slight breeze wouldn’t have been able to blow them so far off the track.
Susan,
Maybe so. I haven’t really had enough time to really think this through completely. Clearly we are ultimately accountable only to God (“against thee and thee only have I sinned” — and that was written about a very public sin), but there is certainly a sense of accountability in the here and now. We do have some accountability to church leaders (“obey them that have the rule over you”), but some pastors take the Hebrews passage too far without considering I Peter 5 (“not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock”).
A lot of this might come about because of the general ignorance of how to apply scripture correctly. I see many Christians use Romans 14 to justify pretty much any behavior, but I have also seen preaching on Romans 14 that claims it’s not applicable beyond the examples in the text, or that “we now have liberty to follow restrictions willingly,” with about any restrictions by leadership to be considered reasonable for the members to give up in their “liberty.”
I find it really interesting that in some fundamental churches, although they would disclaim it vehemently, what arises is similar to what is declared openly in the RC church — members aren’t considered capable of understanding and applying scripture for themselves. That is only for the pastor to do, and everyone else to obey.
And I agree with you about implying or saying to someone “Thus sayeth the Lord …” when the Lord hath not so said. Too many come awfully close to “teaching for doctrines the commandments of men,” if not doing so knowingly.
Maybe so. I haven’t really had enough time to really think this through completely. Clearly we are ultimately accountable only to God (“against thee and thee only have I sinned” — and that was written about a very public sin), but there is certainly a sense of accountability in the here and now. We do have some accountability to church leaders (“obey them that have the rule over you”), but some pastors take the Hebrews passage too far without considering I Peter 5 (“not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock”).
A lot of this might come about because of the general ignorance of how to apply scripture correctly. I see many Christians use Romans 14 to justify pretty much any behavior, but I have also seen preaching on Romans 14 that claims it’s not applicable beyond the examples in the text, or that “we now have liberty to follow restrictions willingly,” with about any restrictions by leadership to be considered reasonable for the members to give up in their “liberty.”
I find it really interesting that in some fundamental churches, although they would disclaim it vehemently, what arises is similar to what is declared openly in the RC church — members aren’t considered capable of understanding and applying scripture for themselves. That is only for the pastor to do, and everyone else to obey.
And I agree with you about implying or saying to someone “Thus sayeth the Lord …” when the Lord hath not so said. Too many come awfully close to “teaching for doctrines the commandments of men,” if not doing so knowingly.
Dave Barnhart
Lots of wisdom in above posts! Would these be some of the options to keep in mind:?
*Sinners tend to act like sinners
* more teaching needed on sins of the flesh with FB application? (If it would not be considered edifying or moral to say something in the church foyer should it be put on FB?)
* consider a church family meeting to openly discuss online challenges? Family and church policies? Guidelines? Is it part of the problem or answer?
* believers are at different points along the road to maturity
*Sinners tend to act like sinners
* more teaching needed on sins of the flesh with FB application? (If it would not be considered edifying or moral to say something in the church foyer should it be put on FB?)
* consider a church family meeting to openly discuss online challenges? Family and church policies? Guidelines? Is it part of the problem or answer?
* believers are at different points along the road to maturity
Getting back to fb itself. I just want to offer a word of warning about jumping to conclusions about people’s actions/motives/intensions. On fb you get brief snippets of life that are usually predicated on events that happened in the real world. So if you are outside of the loop of friends that regularly interacts with the person its extremely easy to misread things.
To use the R-rated movie example. Let’s assume its rated R for sex and language.
There are dvd players that can take out 95% of the language.
If you go to kids-in-mind.com or commonsensemedia.org you can find every instance of sex/nudity, violence, language, and substance abuse. If you just hit the skip button when the sex scene is coming up you miss it entirely. And most DVDs set the next chapter to be right after the sex scene so that parents can skip them.
All of a sudden that R-rated movie has almost no language and no sex scenes. (Whether this is a wise decision to watch these movies is an entirely different topic.)
Now let’s assume there are a couple of upstanding church families who watch these movies but take all the right precautions to sanitize them. They are talking about them on fb to each other; they “like” the movie’s page; etc. You see this and don’t understand. You can imagine the fallout.
I just want to say that we should be careful and we should take the time to understand.
To use the R-rated movie example. Let’s assume its rated R for sex and language.
There are dvd players that can take out 95% of the language.
If you go to kids-in-mind.com or commonsensemedia.org you can find every instance of sex/nudity, violence, language, and substance abuse. If you just hit the skip button when the sex scene is coming up you miss it entirely. And most DVDs set the next chapter to be right after the sex scene so that parents can skip them.
All of a sudden that R-rated movie has almost no language and no sex scenes. (Whether this is a wise decision to watch these movies is an entirely different topic.)
Now let’s assume there are a couple of upstanding church families who watch these movies but take all the right precautions to sanitize them. They are talking about them on fb to each other; they “like” the movie’s page; etc. You see this and don’t understand. You can imagine the fallout.
I just want to say that we should be careful and we should take the time to understand.
Forrest Berry
This is why lately I have been more careful in who I ‘befriend’ on Facebook. I have also gone through my friends list and removed those people whom I do not associate with on a regular basis. I think it is best to limit the people on one’s Facebook to immediate family, relatives, and close friends. Often times we feel pressured to add every person who sends us a ‘friend request’, or who we have an acquaintance with. But most of the time it just leads to unnecessary posts on our ‘news feed’, and us finding out things we really didn’t want to know about, about those people we hardly know in real life.
It is best to be honest with people, and let them know that you value your privacy, and only add family and close friends to your friends list.
Also, having too many strangers on your friends list can be a temptation to some people. There are many people out there who use Facebook to seduce people of the opposite sex, and start illicit relationships. Do you really want these type of people seeing your personal family pics, and possibly being able to send messages to your daughters, sisters, wives, etc?
It is best to be honest with people, and let them know that you value your privacy, and only add family and close friends to your friends list.
Also, having too many strangers on your friends list can be a temptation to some people. There are many people out there who use Facebook to seduce people of the opposite sex, and start illicit relationships. Do you really want these type of people seeing your personal family pics, and possibly being able to send messages to your daughters, sisters, wives, etc?
Discussion