Is the sin of Homosexuality something that is beyond God's power to change?

Yes, Homosexuals can never truly be freed from their homosexual tendencies.
0% (0 votes)
No, God can transform any person, and make them a new creation.
100% (13 votes)
Total votes: 13
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There are 13 Comments

TerryK's picture

Going one mile an hour over the speed limit is no more or less a sin according to God's standard than than the worst child-molester/murderer that ever lived. It's just that as humans we tend to categorize sin in a top ten bad-sins list and place little or no emphasis on the going one mile an hour over the speed limit submit to EVERY ordinance of man for the Lord's sake sins.

I have witnessed homosexuals come to the saving [and transforming ] power of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly: and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 5:23

Ron Bean's picture

I Corinthians 6:9-11

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

Ed Vasicek's picture

TerryK wrote:
Going one mile an hour over the speed limit is no more or less a sin according to God's standard than than the worst child-molester/murderer that ever lived. It's just that as humans we tend to categorize sin in a top ten bad-sins list and place little or no emphasis on the going one mile an hour over the speed limit submit to EVERY ordinance of man for the Lord's sake sins.

I have witnessed homosexuals come to the saving [and transforming ] power of God.

The last line I agree with: homosexuals can be saved and transformed.

But God did not destroy Sodom and Gommorrah because they told white lies. One sin makes us sinners, but some sins incur God's wrath more than others. I wrote a VERY BRIEF article on that subject should you want to peruse it: http://www.highlandpc.com/articles/allsins.php ]http://www.highlandpc.com/articles/allsins.php

"The Midrash Detective"

TerryK's picture

Ed Vasicek ][quote=TerryK wrote:
but some sins incur God's wrath more than others...

Actually God put all that on Jesus at the Cross. It was a one-time-for-all-time deal. Everybody's sins past, present, and future. "It is finished".

I will take a look at your article.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly: and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I Thessalonians 5:23

christian cerna's picture

The reason why I created the poll was because, many Christians seem to be buying into the whole "homosexuals were born this way" lie being pushed by the media and liberals. It seems like everyone is afraid to stand up to the those who say that we must embrace homosexuals, and be more tolerant of their behavior, and understand their struggles- as if no one else struggles with sin.

Ron Bean's picture

They may have been "born that way" but that's why they must be born again!

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

Jim's picture

Merriam Webster definition: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homosexual

  1. Term originated in late 19th century
  2. Note definition # 2: "of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex"
  3. I suggest that we call "sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex "sodomy" = "Middle English, from Anglo-French sodomie, from Late Latin Sodoma Sodom; from the homosexual proclivities of the men of the city in Genesis 19:1–11
  4. Paul called those who committed this sin "sodomites" (1 Tim 4:10, 1 Cor 6:9).
  5. The Greek word - only used above - is ἀρσενοκοίτης
  6. The Gk word is a compound of ἄρρην + κοίτη (male + intercourse)
  7. ἄρρην is the word the Paul used in Romans 1:27, "Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful"
  8. Why I believe the term "homosexual" is not helpful:
    1. Because is is a modern - morally neutral term
    2. It is an imprecise term .... unlike "sodomy" = the very act of same sex
    3. Because it has come to mean "those born that way" .... as it is a genetic, uncontrollable thing. (Like black skin color)
Jim's picture

The question framed: "Is the sin of Homosexuality something that is beyond God's power to change?"

Better framed would be "Can the Christian be victorious over _____ (any sin) _____?"

To call someone a homosexual is like calling a drunk (a sin) an alcoholic (a condition)

I find it interesting that the term "alcoholic" is also of relatively late origin (c 1790) and is a morally neutral term.

Think about it ... no one blames the cancer patient for cancer. It's a disease.

Drunkenness is a choice. Sodomy is a choice.

Why it is dangerous to frame the question they way it has been framed:

  • Because it makes it a condition instead of a sin
  • Because it falls into the trap of "born that way" ... "not personally responsible" ... "not a choice" .... "not a sin"
Jim's picture

if the gospel cannot transform any sinner .... well its not very powerful

1 Cor 1:18 is instructive: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

So to answer the poorly framed question: The sodomite can experience salvation and victory through the cross

Same for the (fill in the above underlined with any below and more!):

  • Drunk
  • Adulterer
  • Materialist
  • Fornicator
  • Idolater
Ed Vasicek's picture

christian cerna wrote:
The reason why I created the poll was because, many Christians seem to be buying into the whole "homosexuals were born this way" lie being pushed by the media and liberals. It seems like everyone is afraid to stand up to the those who say that we must embrace homosexuals, and be more tolerant of their behavior, and understand their struggles- as if no one else struggles with sin.

Tim LaHaye, in his book "The Unhappy Gays" hit the nail on the head. Some people are born with a "melancholic personality" which makes it EASIER for them to become gay than other temperaments (they are not predetermined to become gay). Other factors then more easily drive these people to adopt same-sex attraction.

It was after this time, I believe, that Dean Hammer found the "gay gene," but most people who have it are straight. It is just that a disproportionate number of gays have that gene. So this fits in well with LaHaye, who based his viewpoint on observation.

It is similar with alcoholics. People who are by nature more nervous are drawn to the calming effects of alcohol, I believe.

I am a dated in my reading of studies related to genes, but I think it is a fascinating study, one that needs to be undertaken by more fundamentalists to help carve out a Biblical perspective on the whole genetic deal.

We have put so much emphasis on personal responsibility that we have not done a good job addressing these sorts of things, at least in my limited experience.

"The Midrash Detective"

Charlie's picture

Jim, I appreciate your sensitivity to rhetoric. Certainly the vocabulary matters and the way in which the issue is framed matters. However, there a few points on which I'd like to push back. First, I don't think the newness of the term is that important. The rise of historical, medical, anthropological, and scientific viewpoints lead to a whole host of terminology from the 18th century onward.

The term "sodomite" is not without its own problems. Paul never connects homosexuality to Sodom, as is suggested by the translation "sodomite" in the passages you mentioned. So, the term is an imposition on Paul's theology. Also, what is the sin of Sodom. Only in Jude is there a connection between Sodom and sexual immorality. Listen to this alternative account: Ezekiel 16:49-50 "Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 "And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw fit.

So, maybe "sodomite" should mean a miser or an indolent.

I think the term homosexual arose when people were beginning to realize the reality of same-sex orientation. The medieval world knew of same-sex activity, but it was interpreted as excess libido or giving way to a demonic temptation. In other words, there was no recognition that people could be "normally" oriented toward the same sex. That's still an issue that the Christian church is dealing with. For example, christian cerna refers to homosexuals being "born this way" as "lie being pushed by the media and liberals." Well, it's difficult to know whether homosexuals are born that way, but it's pretty clear that people wind up with desires that they did not choose to have. In other words, homosexual people cannot simply switch on heterosexual attraction any more than heterosexual people could simply decide to become aroused by the same sex.

Ed, all that stuff sounds really sketchy. A "melancholic personality" predisposes people to be gay? Really? I don't know of any serious, recent studies of homosexuality that make that claim. A "nervous disposition" leads to drinking? I won't deny psychological correlates, but a genetic component is well established. That is, social and environmental factors lead people to drink, but genetic and behavioral factors determine how difficult the addiction is to overcome. One person can decide to quit and do so instantly, whereas it is a terribly painful process for another person.

Fundamentalist Christians have a habit of declaring more than they actually know about the causes of homosexuality. At BJU, one employee preached that homosexual men were caused by distant fathers and overweening mothers, whereas homosexual women were rape victims and therefore hated men. That's some deep analysis right there. Certainly no one is forced into sexual activity, but it may be untrue that people are not (genetically or socially) predetermined to be gay. I know several homosexual people who wish(ed) they weren't and spent years trying to become heterosexual. So, the situation is complex, and a person like Tim LaHaye isn't the sort of person to really wrestle with the issues. For someone who takes a traditional Christian position on the issue but is more in touch with the realities of homosexual identity, I would recommend Dr. Mark Yarhouse. I'm sure with a minimum of effort you could find books, articles, and essays.

So, thank you, gentlemen, for you contributions. I think sexual minorities is an area in which we Christians are all in need of much more education.

My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com

Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin

Greg Long's picture

I would highly recommend "When Homosexuality Hits Home" and "Desires in Conflict," both by Joe Dallas.

Can someone who battles homosexual temptations stop committing acts of homosexual sin? 1 Cor. 6 is absolutely clear that he can, with God's help. Will all homosexual temptation forever disappear? It may lessen but it will probably never completely disappear.

That's why we have to define what we mean by "homosexual." Biblically the terms refer to those who commit homosexual acts not necessarily those who struggle against same-sex attraction.

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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

Greg Long's picture

As to whether or not all sins are alike in God's eyes, I think we need to be a little more nuanced. Yes, James tells us that all sins are alike in that any one of them will condemn us to hell. But all sins are not the same, 1 Cor. 6:18 is clear about that. And Jesus indicates that there will be degrees of punishment in hell which would imply that some sins require greater punishment.

As far as homosexuality, Romans 1 calls it "unnatural," "shameful," and "vile." BUT Romans 1 also tells us that all other sins are also against God's law and bring God's righteous wrath. So in that sense I am no better than someone who struggles with homosexual sin--we both stand condemned before God and in need of Christ's righteousness.

-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University