Have you ever spoken in tongues?

Yes, I do regularly or at least on occasion
16% (3 votes)
Yes, in the past, but not now (though I still believe in it)
0% (0 votes)
Yes, but I think it is like praying -- anyone pretty much can.
5% (1 vote)
I used to but have since changed my viewpoint and no longer do
0% (0 votes)
No, but I think some or many others do legitimately speak in tongues
5% (1 vote)
No, I think all (or almost all) tongues speaking is psychological or accounted for in some other way
74% (14 votes)
Other
0% (0 votes)
Total votes: 19
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There are 15 Comments

Ed Vasicek's picture

It seems like the charismatic/tongues controversy has slowed down.  The bigger controversy in conservative circles seems more about reformed/covenant vs. dispensational.

Still, tongues IS still an issue.  This post is about your experience and current viewpoint.

So where are you?

 

"The Midrash Detective"

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

I didn't vote because:

1. The poll doesn't define tongues.

2. Assuming we are speaking of Charismatic tongues, there is no choice for "I believe ALL manifestations of Charismatic tongues (not just most) are psychological or accounted for in some other way (like demonic influence).

If you add a more definitive negative choice, I will gladly vote.

 

Oh, by the way, I am also soteriologically reformed and eschatologically dispensational.

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

SamH's picture

I am not convinced your query is properly set forth. I understand it is a poll, but perhaps the Question should be bent more toward "Have you ever engaged in what you perceive/perceived to be speaking in tongues?" I understand that perhaps the "Other" category covers this kind of question, but that's a pretty big drip pan isn't it?

SamH

Ed Vasicek's picture

I appreciate the concerns some of you expressed.  Here is my response:

Chip said:

Assuming we are speaking of Charismatic tongues, there is no choice for "I believe ALL manifestations of Charismatic tongues (not just most) are psychological or accounted for in some other way (like demonic influence).

The poll offers:

No, I think all (or almost all) tongues speaking is psychological or accounted for in some other way

Thus both ALL or almost all are included in this category. If I had said, "all (i.e., most)" then I would understand your point.

Sam said:

"Have you ever engaged in what you perceive/perceived to be speaking in tongues?..."

Sam, poll questions have to be brief.  I have to work within the word limit in both the question and length of answers.

As far as defining tongues, I am allowing the responders to define them. I am doing this intentionally --not by neglect.  For me to define them would almost preclude a response or discussion. Few people who claim to speak in tongues would claim to be speaking in real, earthly languages (although some might).  So when you read tongues above, understand it as "tongues of any sort" or "tongues as you understand them."

I hope this clarifies matters.

 

 

 

 

"The Midrash Detective"

Crystal's picture

I voted "Yes, I do regularly or at least on occasion" 

Lest I get tossed out on my ear  let me clarify-   I believe tongues are real languages.  I speak Spanish and English.  I frequently pray and read my Bible in Spanish.  I do not use my Spanish in the church as there is no one there who would be in any way edified by my "tongue" as there are no other Spanish speakers in attendance. 

 

ETA-  When I lived in Peru for a year I spoke a "tongue" other than my heart tongue of English pretty much every day all day.    

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

Crystal,

Biblical tongues is identified with spoken language, but the Divine gift of tongues is the ability to speak a language one has not learned naturally. This is what makes it a supernatural gift of the Holy Spirit.

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

Richard Pajak's picture

SamH wrote:

I am not convinced your query is properly set forth. I understand it is a poll, but perhaps the Question should be bent more toward "Have you ever engaged in what you perceive/perceived to be speaking in tongues?" I understand that perhaps the "Other" category covers this kind of question, but that's a pretty big drip pan isn't it?

Ed however put it in a non biased way whereas the way you phrase your preferred form of words appears to betray an anti tongues bias...which indeed you may have but one really shouldn't let ones biases come out in a survey question or you will no doubt not get an accurate result..or you may get the answers you WANT to get.

For those who would answer yes to that question it would not be a matter of perceiving which implies uncertainty but of confidence  and assurance.

Richard Pajak

Crystal's picture

Chip Van Emmerik wrote:

Crystal,

Biblical tongues is identified with spoken language, but the Divine gift of tongues is the ability to speak a language one has not learned naturally. This is what makes it a supernatural gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

Chip,  May I respectfully agree and disagree at the same time?  I believe that the speaking in tongues that occurred at Pentecost was an amazing action of the Holy Spirit.  No one had need of an interpreter.  It wasn't just a miraculous gift of speaking- it was also a miraculous gift of hearing.   

However, if you look in other sections of scripture (1 Cor 14:27-28 comes to mind) you find that there were specific "rules" when it came to tongues that included that an interpreter be used.  Because of that, I believe that the ability to speak in another language that one knows/has studied does fall under the category of "speaking in tongues"   

May I also suggest that God has gifted each of us in different ways.  Some are musically inclined, some are gifted with the ability to learn tongues easily, some are gifted with wisdom...  The verse comes to mind "There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit" in 1 Cor 12:4. 

So, I agree with you that I have never (to my knowledge) spoken in tongues as was done on Pentecost where I have spoken in another language that I had not learned and someone who speaks a whole different language still understood me. 

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

Crystal,

I appreciate your tenor in the conversation and want to extend the same. Sadly, I don't have time to deal any further with this thread. I would encourage you to do some follow-up reading from men like MacArthur and Ryrie (to name a couple off the top of my head). I think you will find the general consensus among conservative evangelicals and fundamanetalists is that all mentions of tongues in scripture speak of the same gift functioning the same way. The difference is not in the speaker but in the audience. In Acts 2, the audience was filled with Jews from all over, so there was no need of interpretation. In other places, you are dealing with largely homogenous congregations who would recognize another language but not be able to speak it. The interpreter was necessary to translate what was said.

 

Also, I think you may be blurring the line between spiritual gifts (tongues and wisdom) and natural abilities (music and language).  

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

SamH's picture

it would seem that bias is already being used in your case to parse my response. I am NOT "anti- tongues" to use your parlance. If you mean I am against interpreting the gloss- passages as pointing to nonhuman ecstatic gibberish, well, ya got me. But, let's be clear, I am for a biblical and normal understanding of the texts which speak to the matter of tongues. This means I am "for" tongues, not agin 'em. As to bias, that does seem to be already built-in to your response to me in a petitio principii-esque fashion. Or should I stopped beating my wife already?

@ Ed Vasicek: I understand this is a poll, and your language must be limited. Years ago, as I desperately sought to find salvation in God I was told to pray for His Spirit to come upon me and I would know I was saved if I could start speaking in (what the AOG) defined as "tongues." Nice...Hence my wrankling about the issue. But I have let my concern override your purposes. I get that you are after a certain type of answer, so I will get out of your way as you try to find it.

[edit note: thought I did this as a "reply" but it didn't seem to work]

SamH

Richard Pajak's picture

SamH wrote:

it would seem that bias is already being used in your case to parse my response. I am NOT "anti- tongues" to use your parlance. If you mean I am against interpreting the gloss- passages as pointing to nonhuman ecstatic gibberish, well, ya got me. But, let's be clear, I am for a biblical and normal understanding of the texts which speak to the matter of tongues. This means I am "for" tongues, not agin 'em. As to bias, that does seem to be already built-in to your response to me in a petitio principii-esque fashion. Or should I stopped beating my wife already?

@ Ed Vasicek: I understand this is a poll, and your language must be limited. Years ago, as I desperately sought to find salvation in God I was told to pray for His Spirit to come upon me and I would know I was saved if I could start speaking in (what the AOG) defined as "tongues." Nice...Hence my wrankling about the issue. But I have let my concern override your purposes. I get that you are after a certain type of answer, so I will get out of your way as you try to find it.

[edit note: thought I did this as a "reply" but it didn't seem to work]

What I was trying to emphasize was that Ed, though he may be sceptical of tongues himself, phrased the question  impartially.

The exact wording of surveys or referrenda of whatever kind are important and mustn't be seen to be skewed in any way or different parties will object. Ed did a decent job and I have no complaints. Yes I have my own biases  as do we all but the questions of a survey must seek to be unbiased in the way they are set out. We would all like questions to be biased in the direction which favours our own leaning but whoever sets out the questions must seek to be beyond that.

Richard Pajak

SamH's picture

I was reacting to your use of "anti-tongues"--of which your use points out your own bias about the meaning of "tongues." It assumes too much. I am against what is being described these days as "tongues."

SamH

Aaron Blumer's picture

EditorAdmin

Great example for my Rhetoric class . . . we recently covered the chapter on definitions and their role in forming sound arguments or stumbling into fallacies. "Speaking in tongues" is a great example of an ambiguous term:

  • to talk in another language
  • by means of the Holy Spirit, talking in another language you never learned
  • speaking a private prayer language
  • speaking an unknown language as enabled by the Spirit
  • other?

Can't really make a case for why/why-not until there's a clear what

(and the what takes you more than half way to the why/why-not)

J Ng's picture

Not directly relevant, as it concerns WRITING in tongues, but I discovered how misguided I was in my 10 years of book learning in Chinese when I finally saw Agnes Ozman's "Spirit-inspired" Chinese, which she wrote in January 1901.

 

So, in terms of WRITING in tongues, "I used to but have since changed my viewpoint and no longer do."

 

 

Jim's picture

Hey Joseph .... I am not familiar with the concept of tongues - writing and the above. Would you be kind enough to elaborate. By the way .... that is just basically chicken scratching - right?