By Marty H Jul 18 2009 Yes 10% (1 vote) No 90% (9 votes) I have not heard of such a bill 0% (0 votes) Total votes: 10 2128 reads There are 9 Comments IMO this is something that Marty H - Sat, 07/18/2009 - 12:52am IMO this is something that every Christian should be keeping a close eye on. I feel that it is another nail in the coffin for freedom of speach as well as freedom to worship as we choose. And from what I understand it has passed the House already and should be voted on by the Senate in the next couple of weeks. Please don't allow this to pass because we did nothing ! For more info please follow the link to WMIT's web page. WMIT FM is part of the BIlly Graham Evangelistic Association. http://www.wmit.org/news/hate_crimes_bill/congressional_legislation.html So many bad ideas... so little time si_sitedev - Sat, 07/18/2009 - 7:58am Motive is already an aspect of litigating crimes, but I don't believe expanding that can do much good and it invites abuse over time... because somebody will have to decide what constitutes "hate." As for this particular law, don't know much about it, but I've never yet met a hate crimes bill I thought was well advised. Jack's perspective rogercarlson - Sat, 07/18/2009 - 8:50am I am no fan of this law. But I would like jack's perspective on this. Are you out there? Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church Quick thoughts Jack - Sun, 07/19/2009 - 11:35pm Almost certain to become law in some form - the House version passed and the Senate version (currently in Judiciary) has 45 co-sponsors. I didn't look at the versions in detail, but it would seem likely to me that they could hammer out any differences in conference. Two major components are the federal commitment to assist states in the prosecution of hate crimes and the creation of a limited set of hate crimes as federal offenses. The carve out regarding free speech is important and, I think, should provide some comfort to those who think hate crime legislation tends toward suppression of the ability to preach the Gospel or speak clearly to sin. I'm not sure it's credible to say that our freedoms are being threatened when the legislation in question is limited to existing serious crimes. I'm not a huge fan of hate crimes legislation, but agree with the poster upthread that motive is already considered in many cases. violent felonies motivated by prejudice ChrisC - Mon, 07/20/2009 - 6:47am Marty H wrote: I feel that it is another nail in the coffin for freedom of speach as well as freedom to worship as we choose.which part of free speech or worship choices includes violent felonies motivated by prejudice? http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1913/text ]full text of hr 1913 Thanks rogercarlson - Mon, 07/20/2009 - 7:54am Jack, Thanks, I hope that you are right. Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church Chris Violent crime is a Marty H - Mon, 07/20/2009 - 11:17am Chris Violent crime is a crime already. Punishment has been set up that if enforced, works. It has for years. If you have 2 people injured lets say in beatings and both the attackers are guilty but one gets one year for his evil and the other gets 2 because someone claims the beatings were motivated by prejudice. The harm to the victums was the same. Why should the one man's attacker get half sentence ? Are you prejudiced against that first victum ? And the use of the word "perceived" in this..Explain that to me if you can. There is no need whatever for this law IMO. Feel free to try and show me otherwise. Marty, IMO, legislating Daniel - Mon, 07/20/2009 - 11:40am Marty, IMO, legislating prejudicial things, whether it be this or scholarships, just further compounds racial prejudices. Even beyond that, it itself is prejudice against those it is not seeking to protect or help. Classic example is of my brother in one of his classes in college. They were talking about racial prejudices and he had the nerve to speak up and ask about prejudices against whites. He was quickly shot down by his teacher, called a racist, and told not to speak. At which point he out loud said, you just proved my point. (the ironic part is, we are 50% Mexican...) Justice Jack - Mon, 07/20/2009 - 1:07pm Marty, I'm sympathetic to your view - I had an uncle murdered when I was young. Why should his murderer receive a more lenient sentence because he was motivated by avarice rather than hate? But, it seems that the assumption underlying your view is that justice should be strictly retributive. Although our system is intended to be primarily retributive, it is influenced by reform and deterrence-centered theories of justice and punishment. Those approaches are reflected in paractices such as consideration of aggravating/mitigating factors in sentencing guidelines and in parole. So I don't see hate crime legislation as a special case, but as another example of both our blended approach to criminal justice and of our tradition of using the criminal justice system to accomplish social ends. Of course, it's also worth noting that we benefit from some hate crimes legislation, such as the bill mentioned at the top of this thread, encompass religion as a protected class. While we may not currently feel physically threatened because of our religious beliefs, we have brothers and sisters around the world today who might welcome their governments' acting to deter religious persecution.