"Is Cremation Christian"?

I’m not sure I have the confidence to answer for others but Rod Decker’s work convinced me that I should not be cremated. I’m less concerned about the origins than I am the biblical/theological message of the body/soul unity. Decker’s lectures/articles are still accessible.

My position is clear and unequivocal!

• Cremated Christians should be removed from the church roles:
• Should not be permitted to serve in the local church in any capacity
• They should not be fellow-shipped with on earth!

I’m an absolutist about these points!

[Dave White]

My position is clear and unequivocal!

• Cremated Christians should be removed from the church roles:
• Should not be permitted to serve in the local church in any capacity
• They should not be fellow-shipped with on earth!

I’m an absolutist about these points!

Is this an attempt at humor, because cremated people are dead? Or do you mean if I have a loved one cremated I should be dis-fellowshipped?

[Mark_Smith] Is this an attempt at humor, because cremated people are dead? Or do you mean if I have a loved one cremated I should be dis-fellowshipped?

Guess! I will respond!

It’s a personal choice (adiaphoron):

• Decker’s article is compelling as is Piper’s “A Modest Proposal”
• My brother and sister-in-law just purchased grave sites in Braintree MA with the plan for traditional burials
• Traditional burial is my intent too! BUT
• Church doctrinal statements nor creeds address it
• It’s adiaphoron

Dave’s poorly expressed comedic response is basically making this point. I think anyway.

If it’s sinful? Who’s sin is it?

• The deceased who has been cremated?
  • Perhaps so …
  • They failed to plan …
  • They failed to save (for a more expensive traditional funeral)
  • They failed to carefully think through the issues that Decker, Piper, et al have raised
• The survivor(s) of the deceased who cremate the decedent?

If it’s sinful, would it lead to disfellowship?

• Too late for the decedent!
• For the survivor(s)?

Here’s a thought: If the question were asked of Japanese believers in Japan where the cremation rate is 99.97%

without cremation.

It strikes me first of all that if burial in a certain manner is an “important doctrine”, it’s very interesting that the New Testament writers, fully aware of cremation and other burial rites practiced by the nations around them, do not mention it. Paul was surrounded by grievous sin, and he doesn’t even comment on it? That’s not the ordinary character of Paul, to put it mildly.

And really, if we want to follow Jesus’ example, do we make sure that the body is heavily abused, optimally prior to death (e.g. causing that death?)? Do we slather the body with spices and fragrances and wrap it in cloth strips? Most importantly, do we remove it from the grave after three days and send it to Heaven after a few weeks?

I’m thinking that while the Old Testament believers preferred burial, and I personally think it’s a wonderful picture of the hope of eternal life and the Gospel, Scripture does not give us specific commands, and therefore we will do well to be quiet where Scripture is quiet.

A friend died late 2021 …:

• A godly servant of Christ
• His wife chose cremation for him (not sure if he was involved in the decision b/c his death was sudden)
• I was surprised b/c my choice is burial (my preference is rapture of course)

[RajeshG] The truthfulness of the explicit teaching of Scripture that Jesus’ body was buried and was not burned or cremated in any manner is undeniable. The truthfulness of the explicit teachings of Scripture that show that Jesus commanded His disciples to proclaim to the whole world that He was buried—and not burned or cremated in any manner—is undeniable.

Has there ever been a sect or cult that has taught or proclaimed that Jesus was “burned or cremated”?

I’m hardly an expert on church or history, but with my limited knowledge, I’m not aware of any.

This is not debatable … this is!

Not debatable: Jesus was buried!

Debatable: The fact of Jesus’ burial sets the pattern for committed Christians.

I suggest we ask this question: What would Paul say about the the subject? Why is this important?

• Paul called himself the “a skilled master builder” [σοφὸς ἀρχιτέκτων] of the church! 1 Corinthians 3:10
• Paul was the “apostle to the Gentiles” / a “teacher of the Gentiles” (Romans 11:13 / 1 Timothy 2:7)
• The Jews didn’t cremate (there’s little doubt about this!)
• Gentiles in the Greco-Roman world did cremate!

Then when power shifted the Rome they copied Greek practices (as they did in many things), again with more embellishment pomp and circumstance. The Romans then developed urns into elaborate art forms and started using Columbarium to store their ashes (these are walls with small niches that store the ashes). It got so common and popular in around 500BC that they had to issue an edict banning cremation within the walls of the city.

Cremation continued to be the norm until around 100AD and went into decline many have considered it due to the rise of Christianity, christens considered it pagan and thought it might interfere with the resurrection

• No one was better positioned and authoritative to address this than Paul.

• Yet he did not.
• Paul warned about “not to go[ing] beyond what is written” 1 Corinthians 4:6. And we should NOT!

[RajeshG] You have missed my entire point.

I thought the point of this thread was … “Is Cremation Christian?”

….which Rajesh says is “excellent”, take a close look, and they’re saying that the proper pattern for Christian burial is, well, burial. That’s what it says, clearly and emphaticaly.

Regarding the kind of case it makes, well, take a look. It starts with a guilt by association fallacy saying “it is a heathen practice”, and it should be pointed out that, since they mention Joseph’s burial, that his body was likely embalmed (Genesis 50:26) and interred in a mausoleum in the pagan Egyptian fashion, just as his father Israel had been. It was, after all, the Egyptian physicians who did the embalming over a period of 40 days.

And since we’re talking about that, what we’re talking about is artful dessication of the body after the internal organs have been removed, including removing the rain through the nose. If we are to contend that the Old Testament Hebrew pattern is to be followed, however, we would insist on a quick interment in the way that Lazarus was quickly interred.

Really, when I look at the examples given, I have a number of cases simply describing the Old Testament Hebrew preference for burial followed by a few dozen verses taken completely out of context, none of them specifically referring to the practice of cremation at all. And yet the author claims that “God has plainly called cremation wickedness.”

Rajesh, this is not an “excellent article”. It’s a paper that ought to get a big red F if submitted for class by any Bible college freshman in the nation because of its lapses in logic and evidence. It is also no surprise to me that Elmwood subscribes to KJVO theology, as the same kind of lapses in logic and evidence are necessary for that position as well.

It strikes me as well that since Jacob and Joseph did not hesitate to allow pagan doctors to embalm their bodies when they died so their bodies could be buried in Israel, the context of Scripture seems to indicate that, as in other areas, believers do have some freedom where the Scriptures do not specifically spell things out. Carrying their un-embalmed bodies, even if covered with spices as was the custom in Jesus’ day, back to Israel would have been disgusting, not to mention a health hazard.

So since the land, and burial on that land„ was an important thing in that dispensation, Jacob and Joseph (well, their heirs technically) allowed doctors who were almost certainly pagan to damage their bodies for the sake of the final resting place they desired. This is good news for us Americans, since while we don’t remove bodily organs for burial (except as donations), we do remove the blood and inject embalming fluid (formaldehyde) for the sake of lookin’ good at the funeral. Same basic principle, really.

And it’s worth noting as well that since many Christians do not live in places where graveyard space is readily available (India, China, Japan), I would dare suggest that the silence of the apostles in this matter indicates a degree of freedom in that regard as well.

Out of curiosity, do you hold to the regulative principle of worship? You don’t have to answer if you don’t care to since it’s not relevant to this thread. Just wondering because you make some arguments from similar premises but apply them to non ecclesiastical contexts. Thanks either way.

[RajeshG]

Deut. 21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: 23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Before Israel ever came into the Promised Land, God commanded them to bury at least certain people—those who had been hanged for having committed a sin worthy of death. Plainly, this command did not have anything to do with OT Hebrew preference, culture, or tradition—it was an explicit divine mandate given by supernatural revelation.

This was a divine mandate and clearly communicated the mind of God to His specially chosen and unique people and nation. Moreover, this divine command was one key reason that Jesus was buried and was not burned or cremated in any manner (cf. Gal. 3:13, which talks about Christ’s being made a curse for us and then uses this very passage [Deut. 21:23] as Scriptural support for that fact).

Arguing from the greater to the lesser, because God did not permit His people to burn to powder the bodies of even heinous sinners who experienced capital punishment by hanging, how much less so would He have approved of their burning to powder the bodies of His righteous saints. This reasoning is fully corroborated by the witness of the entire Bible because Scripture never states explicitly that God’s people ever burned anyone’s dead body to powder.

Burning a dead body to powder by burning alone or in combination with any other actions has zero Scripture to support it, and God’s command in Deut. 21 is one of several biblical passages that (either implicitly [as in Deut. 21] or explicitly [as in other passages] ) show that God has never approved of humans doing so.

[RajeshG]

I am not arguing from that one verse alone. I would urge you not to allow such questions to keep you from letting God’s truth renew your mind.

Asking questions about the applicability of each verse used in an argument is one of the ways to examine whether God’s truth is actually being taught. It seems odd to be dismissive of such questions.

Instead, I urge you to ponder deeply what this passage reveals about God Himself and about the gospel message that God has explicitly commanded Christians to proclaim to every human being. Christ was buried, in part, because God’s command in Deut. 21 had to be obeyed—this truth matters for the whole world!

Christ was buried by having his body wrapped in cloth with spices and then put in a cave where people could visit it. That’s not the way we do it today, so are Christians today really following the pattern of Christ by being embalmed and put in a coffin six feet underground? Do we need to follow Christ’s exact pattern to be acceptable, or can each culture follow it’s own “bodily preparation practices” as long as the end result is a final placement in the earth? Do you think the “gospel message” needs to include the specific “bodily preparation practices” that were used on Christ.

[RajeshG]

Kevin Miller wrote:

Christ was buried by having his body wrapped in cloth with spices and then put in a cave where people could visit it. That’s not the way we do it today, so are Christians today really following the pattern of Christ by being embalmed and put in a coffin six feet underground? Do we need to follow Christ’s exact pattern to be acceptable, or can each culture follow it’s own “bodily preparation practices” as long as the end result is a final placement in the earth? Do you think the “gospel message” needs to include the specific “bodily preparation practices” that were used on Christ.

My point is that Christ’s body was not burned or cremated in any manner. Burning or cremation is what I am opposing in this thread.

Concerning the gospel importance of Christ’s burial, I have not commented on following Christ’s pattern, etc. I am establishing the importance of declaring to all people everywhere that Christ was buried and not burned or cremated in any manner.

[RajeshG]

I do not answer questions about things that either I have not studied in depth or do not know the answers to or both. The subject of what the Bible teaches about proper versus improper burial is a separate subject and not one that I am prepared to discuss. I do not have the answers for many such questions, and much more importantly to me, I do not want the thread diverted into endless discussion about specifics, methods, etc.

Scripture reveals specifics about Christ’s burial and some of them are very likely pertinent to a proper witness and some of them may not be. I have not studied this subject before so I am not going to take positions on things that I do not have the answers to. What I can say with certainty is that burning or cremating a body to powder is not biblical and not acceptable to God.

[RajeshG]

Deu 34:6 And he [God] buried him [Moses] in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

God revealed what happened to Moses’ body after He died. God was not under any obligation to reveal this information. Because He chose to reveal it, we know that His doing so was intended to profit the Israelites who first received it and to profit all of His people who have subsequently received this information, including us.

God did not bury the body of Moses to fulfill the preferences of the Hebrews or the cultural or traditional expectations that were prevalent at that time—God has never been subject to any such obligations or considerations. Moreover, there were no humans present on this occasion whose preferences could even possibly have been a consideration.

God could have dematerialized Moses’ body in an instant or He could have turned it into dust instantaneously.

He, however, chose to bury him instead in a sepulcher and then revealed to His people that He did so.

God’s example of burying the dead body of one of His saints (and not burning it or cremating it in any manner) and then revealing that He did so ought to be more than enough to teach His people what God desires of them. He has commanded us to be His followers (cf. Eph. 5:1), and all that He has revealed about the importance of a proper burial plainly teaches us that burying His own has always been and continues to be the will of God for His people.

[RajeshG]

The claim that many passages in the OT about burial are instances “simply describing the Old Testament Hebrew preference for burial” is a faulty assertion.

I assume you’re familiar with the concepts of prescription and description. What do you see as the difference between these?

[Kevin Miller] I would hesitate to use a verse from Deuteronomy to instruct Christians today in how we are to act.

[RajeshG]

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

I do not answer questions about things that either I have not studied in depth or do not know the answers to or both. The subject of what the Bible teaches about proper versus improper burial is a separate subject and not one that I am prepared to discuss. I do not have the answers for many such questions, and much more importantly to me, I do not want the thread diverted into endless discussion about specifics, methods, etc.

Scripture reveals specifics about Christ’s burial and some of them are very likely pertinent to a proper witness and some of them may not be. I have not studied this subject before so I am not going to take positions on things that I do not have the answers to. What I can say with certainty is that burning or cremating a body to powder is not biblical and not acceptable to God.

But if burning or cremating a body is simply a “bodily preparation practice” that takes place before burial, then it wouldn’t necessarily be unacceptable if a burial actually takes place for the ashes. As you say, you haven’t studied out bodily preparation practices that constitute a “proper versus improper burial,” so I wonder why you are taking such a negative position on this when you specifically claim that “I am not going to take positions on things that I don’t have the answers to.”

The Bible does not support in any manner that burning or cremating a body to powder is simply an acceptable “bodily preparation practice” that takes place before burial. I have studied that point thoroughly.

I think Paul’s approach to culture in I Cor. 9:19-23 applies here. To the Jews he became like a Jew. To those under the law, he became like one under the law. To those not under the law, he became like one not under the law. Paul lived like those in the culture around him, while still refraining from those things that God condemned. Unless we see some condemnation of cremation as a bodily preparation method before burial, then I don’t see any reason to claim it’s unacceptable as long as a burial of some sort takes place with the remains.