"The cost of sending a young person to a state university will, in many cases, be a life marked by ambivalence toward spiritual things"

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Shaynus's picture

Some trust in chariots, and some in institutions of higher learning, but we will remember the name of the Lord our God. 

The truth is that parents who surrender their kids to programs and institutions to raise them up will be disappointed. I grew up at Bob Jones since the day I was born. I have a group of friends that I grew up with some of whom are serving the Lord today, and others have abandoned the faith completely. There are PLENTY of students who go through state schools with their faith intact. It seems to me the difference is mostly that parents have to put teaching their children into higher gear: when they rise up, and going on the way, and every other time. 

TylerR's picture

Editor

It's an ad piece. Probably shouldn't read too much into it.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Rob Fall's picture

However, it is quite partisan.   But what would you expect from MBBC's in house magazine?

TylerR wrote:

It's an ad piece. Probably shouldn't read too much into it.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

Ron Bean's picture

I am somewhat leery of people whose method of promoting their product is to demonize the competition.

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

Jay's picture

You mean...people that are unsaved do sinful things like drugs, gambling and sleeping with whomever they want?
You mean...there's a whole bunch of people out there that don't love God and live for themselves?
You mean...that there is a whole sin-filled environment that we're sending our kids into and we can't keep them in our hermetic bubbles?

I'm Shocked...SHOCKED, I say.

/humor

Seriously - if someone is affected by that ad enough to send them to BCM as a result...they've got some serious issues.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

rogercarlson's picture

I think part of it goes back to where your kids went to high school.  My daughter graduated from public high school, and she made big stands for her faith there.  She is used to that.  But by the time she leves junior college, she wont have to be in the dorms anyway.  The other stuff, she deals with now.  All of you made the other points that Iw ould have made.

Roger Carlson, Pastor
Berean Baptist Church

Charlie's picture

My favorite part of the ad was the scare quotes for "elite" schools, as if Harvard and Stanford and such simply pretend to offer superior educational opportunities. They bribe the judges! Don't be fooled! Instead, get a real education at our "Christian" school. 

On another note, you must be doing something wrong if the only selling point for your school is something definitional, like a Christian school being Christian. I can't wait to see the ad for West Coast Baptist. "Come visit! We're on the West Coast! And we're Baptist!" 

My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com

Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin

TylerR's picture

Editor

To be fair, Maranatha does regularly tout their regional accreditation and their excellent academic standings, especially compared to secular colleges. They do all that, and more, quite a bit.

This particular piece was obviously aimed at some distraught parent, upset at sending precious Jack or Jill to an "evil" secular college. Hey, for the target market, this might be a pretty effective ad!

 

 

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Greg Long's picture

So, how about interacting with the actual content of the article, including the studies cited, rather than just criticizing the source?

-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

Jim's picture

Briefly comment because my own (or my wife's) was 40 years ago (University of Cincinnati for me and Florida State for her)

Maranatha said:

But, please consider for a moment just what your young person will be facing every day:

 

  • Peers with a view of faith and morality that is ambivalent at best, antagonistic at worst.
  • Professors who decry Christianity as “intolerant” and intellectually bankrupt.
  • Fellow students who will question, and often ridicule, those with conservative lifestyle standards.
  • A dormitory where they will be forced to share a bathroom, floor, or even their room with someone of the opposite sex.
  • A social atmosphere where drinking, drug abuse, and immorality are encouraged and even expected.

Observations:

  • Two of my children managed to attend and graduate without being in the dorm
  • Dormitory: Daughter graduated 5 years ago from St school. Was in a dorm for 1st year. She never experienced this
  • On peers. Really this is no different than life after college. But there are Christians at the secular college. Christians can choose peers with whom to associate
  • On social atmosphere. See peers
TylerR's picture

Editor

Jay's comments, above, pretty accurately characterize my response to the substance of the article! I don't think much can be gained by hermetically sealing our kids in theological Tupperware their whole lives.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Greg Long's picture

Tyler, I don't see anyone arguing for that.

-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

I want to echo what Greg just said. No one is arguing that we seal off our kids -- entirely -- for the rest of their lives. Being home schooled or attending a Christian day school does not have to mean our kids are isolated or that we are trying to insulate them entirely from the world. 

 

I have never understood the argument of parents who want to say that public school is as good as (or better than) a Christian environment for schooling kids. I would never argue the Christian day school is perfect. On the other hand, I would rather have a group of people sharing my world view and spiritual priorities teaching my kid than people opposed to my views. I would rather have the predominant number of parents and students involved with my child's education pulling in the same direction I am pulling, albeit imperfectly, than have them pulling in opposition to me. I think this is more important the younger you are talking about, but, we don't send trainees in any other sector of life out to the front lines to learn the ropes. We put them in protected environments and let them slowly test their abilities as they train. I just keep coming back to the first sentence. List all the cons you will against the home school and the Christian day school, and you will still have a shorter list than the public state schools. I am still going to have to parent no matter where the kids are educated, but why not get the best education I can get for my kids, one that challenges them academically as it disciples them in the faith.

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

Just ran across this story and though it was apropos to the discussion.

 

Ivy League Institution to Offer Nude Yoga Class?

Brown's nudity event is somewhat rare among collegiate campuses. Brown already has a Sex Week in March, which is not unlike similar events at other Ivy League schools like Harvard University, the University of Pennsylvania and Yale University -- the originator of the college Sex Week.

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

Andrew K.'s picture

Greg Long wrote:
So, how about interacting with the actual content of the article, including the studies cited, rather than just criticizing the source?

I'm inclined to believe that the studies say more about evangelicalism as a whole, particularly in the family and church communities in which the tough questions are neither answered nor asked and Scriptures are not properly emphasized, than about the real difference between institutions of higher education.

For many students, Christian college may be necessary due to 1) an extended adolescence and 2) a meager diet of God's Word--all of it--from the pulpits and in the families.

神是爱

DavidO's picture

For many students, Christian college may be necessary due to 1) an extended adolescence and 2) a meager diet of God's Word--all of it--from the pulpits and in the families.

This.   And I say that as a family leader who suspects he's at least partially guilty of cultivating #1 in his children as well as not overcoming #2 for my family.

My oldest is a HS senior this year.  MBBC, my alma mater, is one of the schools we've looked at.  Their persistence with this (probably well-intended but misguided) tack is very disappointing to me.  It borders on determinism.

 

 

Susan R's picture

EditorModerator

The factors that influence young people are far too complex to try to make a connection between where they go to school and their choice to 'fall away' from Christ. 

It is also a bit disingenuous to imply that Christian college campuses have been washed from all immorality and challenges to one's faith. 

What if the take away from this is that parents aren't providing their children with a firm foundation at home? That their churches are not equipping them for the work of the ministry? Or that children who make professions of faith when young weren't truly regenerated to begin with?

I think Christian colleges are fine for providing an education in an atmosphere where students can take certain things for granted. One certainly can learn more in a less stressful environment. But personal responsibility and a solid doctrinal foundation should be ingrained into young people by parents and church, because no one is going to hold their hand when they get older and have to go to work in a place where people are blatantly immoral and hostile to Christianity, where they will be ridiculed, they will share space and even a company washroom with the opposite sex, and where drinking, drug use, and sexual immorality are accepted and encouraged. 

Mike Harding's picture

I thought the article had some valid points and should not be dismissed out of ad hominem accusations.  There are serious risks being taken when we place our young people in very hostile environments void of common grace.  I would normally recommend a Christian college education.  I know how beneficial it was to me personally,  Three of my four children have attended a Christian college.  I can say that the experience they received at the Christian college or university was very beneficial to them in every way.  The dangers mentioned in the article are real and should not be dismissed lightly.  My children have also attended secular schools in their graduate education.  I realize that there are times or occasions when this might be necessary.  I would advise every parent to take every precaution necessary to protect and strengthen their children in such an environment.  Temptation in these environments can be overwhelming.  The statistics cited in the article speak volumes.

Pastor Mike Harding

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

Shaynus wrote:

Some trust in chariots, and some in institutions of higher learning, but we will remember the name of the Lord our God. 

The truth is that parents who surrender their kids to programs and institutions to raise them up will be disappointed. I grew up at Bob Jones since the day I was born. I have a group of friends that I grew up with some of whom are serving the Lord today, and others have abandoned the faith completely. There are PLENTY of students who go through state schools with their faith intact. It seems to me the difference is mostly that parents have to put teaching their children into higher gear: when they rise up, and going on the way, and every other time. 

Shaynus,

While everyone agrees some Christians who go to secular colleges remain faithful to the Lord and some students attending Christian colleges abandon their faith, and everyone agrees that the primary responsibility remains parental, do think a young adult professing Christ is more likely to be discipled in the faith and encouraged in their sanctification in a Christian college setting or a secular one? With all the anecdotes about secular college successes and Christian college failures, that is still the core question. Which setting is best equipped and most likely to help a young adult continue maturing as a disciple of Christ?

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

DavidO's picture

Chip,

What are the two institutions God ordained to carry out discipleship?  Are those two institutions sufficient to succeed in that mission?

 

do [you] think a young adult professing Christ is more likely to be discipled in the faith and encouraged in their sanctification in a Christian college setting or a secular one? . . . Which setting is best equipped and most likely to help a young adult continue maturing as a disciple of Christ?

Jim's picture

Chip Van Emmerik wrote:
Which setting is best equipped and most likely to help a young adult continue maturing as a disciple of Christ?

Answer: A good local church

DLCreed's picture

 

A repost of sorts, but valid for the discussion at hand - HERE.

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

Jay wrote:

You mean...people that are unsaved do sinful things like drugs, gambling and sleeping with whomever they want?
You mean...there's a whole bunch of people out there that don't love God and live for themselves?
You mean...that there is a whole sin-filled environment that we're sending our kids into and we can't keep them in our hermetic bubbles?

I'm Shocked...SHOCKED, I say.

/humor

Seriously - if someone is affected by that ad enough to send them to BCM as a result...they've got some serious issues.

Jay,

While everyone agrees some Christians who go to secular colleges remain faithful to the Lord and some students attending Christian colleges abandon their faith, and everyone agrees that the primary responsibility remains parental, do you think a young adult professing Christ is more likely to be discipled in the faith and encouraged in their sanctification in a Christian college setting or a secular one? With all the anecdotes about secular college successes and Christian college failures, that is still the core question. Which setting is best equipped and most likely to help a young adult continue maturing as a disciple of Christ?

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

rogercarlson wrote:

I think part of it goes back to where your kids went to high school.  My daughter graduated from public high school, and she made big stands for her faith there.  She is used to that.  But by the time she leves junior college, she wont have to be in the dorms anyway.  The other stuff, she deals with now.  All of you made the other points that Iw ould have made.

Roger,

While everyone agrees some Christians who go to secular colleges remain faithful to the Lord and some students attending Christian colleges abandon their faith, and everyone agrees that the primary responsibility remains parental, do you think a young adult professing Christ is more likely to be discipled in the faith and encouraged in their sanctification in a Christian college setting or a secular one? With all the anecdotes about secular college successes and Christian college failures, that is still the core question. Which setting is best equipped and most likely to help a young adult continue maturing as a disciple of Christ?

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

Charlie wrote:

My favorite part of the ad was the scare quotes for "elite" schools, as if Harvard and Stanford and such simply pretend to offer superior educational opportunities. They bribe the judges! Don't be fooled! Instead, get a real education at our "Christian" school. 

On another note, you must be doing something wrong if the only selling point for your school is something definitional, like a Christian school being Christian. I can't wait to see the ad for West Coast Baptist. "Come visit! We're on the West Coast! And we're Baptist!" 

Charlie,

Do you really think this is the only selling point Maranatha has? Do you argue that it shouldn't be among the selling points? Do you think a young adult professing Christ is more likely to be discipled in the faith and encouraged in their sanctification in a Christian college setting or a secular one? This is the core questions. Which setting is best equipped and most likely to help a young adult continue maturing as a disciple of Christ?

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

Jim wrote:

Briefly comment because my own (or my wife's) was 40 years ago (University of Cincinnati for me and Florida State for her)

Maranatha said:

But, please consider for a moment just what your young person will be facing every day:

 

  • Peers with a view of faith and morality that is ambivalent at best, antagonistic at worst.
  • Professors who decry Christianity as “intolerant” and intellectually bankrupt.
  • Fellow students who will question, and often ridicule, those with conservative lifestyle standards.
  • A dormitory where they will be forced to share a bathroom, floor, or even their room with someone of the opposite sex.
  • A social atmosphere where drinking, drug abuse, and immorality are encouraged and even expected.

Observations:

  • Two of my children managed to attend and graduate without being in the dorm
  • Dormitory: Daughter graduated 5 years ago from St school. Was in a dorm for 1st year. She never experienced this
  • On peers. Really this is no different than life after college. But there are Christians at the secular college. Christians can choose peers with whom to associate
  • On social atmosphere. See peers

Jim,

While everyone agrees some Christians who go to secular colleges remain faithful to the Lord and some students attending Christian colleges abandon their faith, and everyone agrees that the primary responsibility remains parental, do you think a young adult professing Christ is more likely to be discipled in the faith and encouraged in their sanctification in a Christian college setting or a secular one? With all the anecdotes about secular college successes and Christian college failures, that is still the core question. Which setting is best equipped and most likely to help a young adult continue maturing as a disciple of Christ?

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

TylerR's picture

Editor

My oldest kid is only 9, so please understand I'm not facing these issues right now. Having said that . . .

I think it really comes down to when adulthood begins. I'm not talking about individual maturity, but the general age at which we need to begin treating our children as adults. The idea that our children aren't "adults" until they graduate college at age 22 is just plain silly to me. I joined the military and married at 18, had two children by age 22, and was a Watch Commander in a military police detachment when I was 19. I served with many people my age who did similar things. So, the idea that our kids must be protected from the "evil world" until age 22 is just nonsense, in my experience.  

I was being a bit sarcastic earlier when I said we shouldn't hermetically seal our kids in theological tupperware, but there was a nugget of truth there also. They need to be enabled to act like adults, and that means making the Christian faith their own, and dealing with tough decisions and overcoming temptations. If they're not ready by 18 then (1) I've done something wrong and (2) they have a lot of growing up to do.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

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