8 in 10 U.S. Muslims Reject Suicide Bombing as "Never Justified"

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Paul Henebury's picture

So 1 in 5 think it's okay?  One wonders how many believe violence against Christians and Jews is justified.

Dr. Paul Henebury

I am Founder of Telos Ministries, and Senior Pastor at Agape Bible Church in N. Ca.

Dave Gilbert's picture

It also states in the article that about 64% of U.S. Christians believe that people of other faiths can go to heaven.  ( Raises eyebrow ).

Andrew K.'s picture

Given response bias, I'd have to say the true figure is almost certainly worse.

神是爱

josh p's picture

There are twice as many Muslims in the US since pre-9/11. So let's see...with 2.6 million Muslims in the US that means that there are 520,000 Muslims living in the US that believe suicide bombing is sometimes justifiable. Swell!!

iKuyper's picture

Umm...now ask your average bible belt Christian if killing Muslims in the Middle East is justifiable....

Ecclesia semper reformanda est

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

iKuyper wrote:
Umm...now ask your average bible belt Christian if killing Muslims in the Middle East is justifiable....
I can't believe you even typed this, let alone published it. I have not heard one single account of an American buying a plane ticket to the middle east, picking up a firearm and marching into a grocery store shooting civilians.

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

JobK's picture

Chip Van Emmerik wrote:

iKuyper wrote:
Umm...now ask your average bible belt Christian if killing Muslims in the Middle East is justifiable....
I can't believe you even typed this, let alone published it. I have not heard one single account of an American buying a plane ticket to the middle east, picking up a firearm and marching into a grocery store shooting civilians.

Namely two wars in Iraq started by presidents that most evangelicals and fundamentalists voted for and generally supported when Iraq neither attacked us or posed a legitimate military threat to us. Now of course, I am not suggesting that the church is responsible for the actions of a state that we don't run (because if we did run it, abortion would not be legal for example) but that is what he was referring to. 

Solo Christo, Soli Deo Gloria, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura
http://healtheland.wordpress.com

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

JobK wrote:

Chip Van Emmerik wrote:

iKuyper wrote:
Umm...now ask your average bible belt Christian if killing Muslims in the Middle East is justifiable....
I can't believe you even typed this, let alone published it. I have not heard one single account of an American buying a plane ticket to the middle east, picking up a firearm and marching into a grocery store shooting civilians.

Namely two wars in Iraq started by presidents that most evangelicals and fundamentalists voted for and generally supported when Iraq neither attacked us or posed a legitimate military threat to us. Now of course, I am not suggesting that the church is responsible for the actions of a state that we don't run (because if we did run it, abortion would not be legal for example) but that is what he was referring to. 

I know what he was referring to. There is no comparison between soldiers fighting in those wars and Muslims detonating bombs at a Marathon - no comparison. 

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

iKuyper's picture

JobK wrote:

Chip Van Emmerik wrote:

iKuyper wrote:
Umm...now ask your average bible belt Christian if killing Muslims in the Middle East is justifiable....
I can't believe you even typed this, let alone published it. I have not heard one single account of an American buying a plane ticket to the middle east, picking up a firearm and marching into a grocery store shooting civilians.

Namely two wars in Iraq started by presidents that most evangelicals and fundamentalists voted for and generally supported when Iraq neither attacked us or posed a legitimate military threat to us. Now of course, I am not suggesting that the church is responsible for the actions of a state that we don't run (because if we did run it, abortion would not be legal for example) but that is what he was referring to. 

 

What he said, Chip.

Little difference to me...honestly. Killing is killing, and I'm shocked to know many Christians who were in FULL support...

Ecclesia semper reformanda est

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

You're right - killing is killing. We should lock up the police office who shoots a bank robber along with the bank robber who shoots the bank guard - killing is killing. 

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

iKuyper's picture

Ok, Chip. Let me be a little more pointed. Terrorism is just as sinful as an unjust war. In fact, I would equate the two. That was my point. People can disagree, but I'm still shocked at how many Christians are pro-war.

I think the problem is that many American Christians conflate American and Christian...

 

iK

Ecclesia semper reformanda est

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

I think the bigger problem is too many people who profess Christianity without possessing it. If that is true, then the ensuing failures make more sense. I do think it's an over-generalization to call people who endorsed these wars "pro war".  I think there is a difference between pro-war and willingness to fight when necessary. That said, I am also troubled at the numbers of professing Christians who profess complete support for these wars and every aspect of the war effort. Regarding your point, I still think you have a world of difference, even in an unjust war, comparing combatants fighting each other to terrorists targeting civilians (including women and children) - just not the same thing.

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

JobK's picture

Chip Van Emmerik wrote:

JobK wrote:

Chip Van Emmerik wrote:

iKuyper wrote:
Umm...now ask your average bible belt Christian if killing Muslims in the Middle East is justifiable....
I can't believe you even typed this, let alone published it. I have not heard one single account of an American buying a plane ticket to the middle east, picking up a firearm and marching into a grocery store shooting civilians.

Namely two wars in Iraq started by presidents that most evangelicals and fundamentalists voted for and generally supported when Iraq neither attacked us or posed a legitimate military threat to us. Now of course, I am not suggesting that the church is responsible for the actions of a state that we don't run (because if we did run it, abortion would not be legal for example) but that is what he was referring to. 

I know what he was referring to. There is no comparison between soldiers fighting in those wars and Muslims detonating bombs at a Marathon - no comparison. 

No one is equating soldiers with terrorists. However, one can equate the people who decide to deploy the soldiers with terrorists if the war is unjust. Also, the people who supported the leaders despite or because of the leaders' decision to fight an unjust war with our soldiers are not without responsibility. And I will go ahead and say that soldiers should not be given blanket pardons. If a soldier realizes that the war that he is fighting is unjust, he should refuse to fight. Also, a person should not join the armed forces, even if drafted, if the nation is fighting an unjust war. Better a deserter/draft-dodger than a murderer. Better to go to court martial and prison with no innocent blood on your hands than to obey a law or leaders that compels you to shed innocent blood. And when I say innocent, yes I do include enemy soldiers who have just as much of a right and responsibility to defend their country from a foreign invading and occupying force as we do ours. Now do not mistake me: due to our fallen condition war is a necessary evil, but an unjust war is simply an evil in which no Christian should knowingly participate in or support. 

Terrorism is but one way to murder people. Unjust warfare most certainly is, and far more people have been killed by unjust warfare than by terrorism. Also, in a real sense, terrorism is merely one form of unjust warfare. Terrorism is but guerrilla warfare tactics aimed against civilian rather than military targets. In that sense, there is very little difference between the attacks on the World Trade Center and on Pearl Harbor. And when you consider that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in order to prevent us from interrupting their oil supply routes and Al Qaeda (whether rightly or wrongly) considered the World Trade Center to be a source of oppressive, aggressive economic policy against the Muslim and Arab world that caused starvation, political unrest and yes warfare in their lands, there is less difference still. 

I am not babbling multiculturalist humanistic moral equivalence liberalism mind you. Rather, the Bible does regard unjust warfare to be sin. Read 2 Samuel 21:1-9 where God sent a famine upon Israel because of and ultimately required the lives of male descendants of the line of King Saul as capital punishment for Saul's unjust warfare against the Gibeonites. God also judged a host of nations (Assyria, Babylon, etc.) in the OT for their warlike ways, not not just for their crimes against Israel. The term "warmonger" doesn't appear in the Bible - or at least not my KJV translation of it - but there are equivalents, such as "bloody." 

So the real debate is whether one agrees with iKuyper in declaring the Iraq War to be unjust. I will say this: a major reason why this debate has never really been had by evangelicals and fundamentalists is due to loyalty to Bush that is grotesquely misplaced. George W. Bush and George H. W. Bush are both pro-abortion. The father lied about it in order to gain the vice presidency and presidency for himself but later showed his true spots both by putting David Souter on the Supreme Court and then telling the media during his re-election campaign that he would support his daughter's decision to have an abortion; the son actually never lied about his support for Roe v. Wade but the pro-lifers who voted for him simply believed what they wanted to believe. I am sorry, but I have no problems with the idea that a person who supports abortion would also lead the nation into an unjust war. If you are capable of consenting to the mass murder of the unborn, then what moral, ethical or spiritual standard is there that restrains holds you from bombing cities without just cause? 

Solo Christo, Soli Deo Gloria, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura
http://healtheland.wordpress.com

Richard Pajak's picture

It seems to me to hinge on whether you think the war is just or unjust.

Some may feel the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were just. Two people can look at the same issue and come to different conclusions.

Richard Pajak

iKuyper's picture

Steve Newman wrote:

Would  you rather have this:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/islam-expert-warns-christians-may-comp...

That's what we get now with our current leadership, as they stand by and do nothing.

You're missing the fine print--print that should be enlarged and bolded. Christians were safer before the wars.. 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/10/mid-easts-christians-intro.html

The Christian community in Iraq is one of the oldest in the region, dating back about 2,000 years, well before the introduction of Islam.

Since the start of the Iraq war in 2003, however, much the community has fled the country, diminishing its population within Iraq's borders by about half.

Under Saddam Hussein, Iraq was ruled by the Baath party, a secular government. Hussein himself was a Sunni Muslim; Sunni Muslims comprise about 35 percent of Iraqis.

Since Hussein's government was a minority government. Other minorities, including Christians, "felt much more protected under the Hussein regime than they do currently," says Brian Katulis of the Center for American Progress.

 

Ecclesia semper reformanda est

iKuyper's picture

and in the article you posted:

Ibrahim pointed out that 10 years ago, at least one million Christians lived in Iraq.

"Today fewer than 400,000 remain – the result of an anti-Christian campaign that began with the U.S. occupation of Iraq, when countless Christian churches were bombed and countless Christians killed, including by crucifixion and beheading," he wrote.

 

Wow...

Ecclesia semper reformanda est